Man ROBBED at local Gun Store

[kb4ns]

Interesting analogy, Lester. I'm definitely not fond of the "horse traders" either. If you are a "horse trader", the least you can do is make it clear you're running an auction...

[seez52]

this situation is similar to what happens every time a new gun comes out. Whether it be a SCAR or this keltec

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handguns/42840-keltec-pmr-30-a.html

If you can't keep your panties on and just have to have the first one that shows up you're gonna end up paying thru the nose. That' s just the way it works. Everything works this way. People are always going to operate in this manner regardless of which side of the equation you're talking about.

He WANTED the new gun apparently nothing else mattered to him.

Used to be that dealers, in order to get the new hot guns had to take some not so hot or even some really slow moving items in order to be "allocated" the good stuff. Don't know if that goes on today, but wouldn't be surprised. So as someone else said, RB might have to sit on those trade-in's for a while and there is a definite time value of capital.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Interesting analogy, Lester. I'm definitely not fond of the "horse traders" either. If you are a "horse trader", the least you can do is make it clear you're running an auction...

Hi KB

I'm not expert on it, but the 'horse trading' is somewhat cultural. Some cultures, for instance greek, middle east, south asian, mexican-- They expect to haggle a price and get disappointed if you don't haggle. Even if they take you to the cleaners in a deal, they feel unhappy if you didn't argue the price before closing the deal.

On the other extreme, sister told me that german mechanics are so stuffy about haggling that they get offended if you are rude and crass enough to ask how much a car repair will cost, before you get the car fixed.

When I've visited mexico, buying from a typical mom'n'pop shop-- If you don't haggle they will not only take you to the cleaners, but they will be disappointed and disrespectful that you did not haggle. The first offer is not intended to be a serious final price. They would be happier if you had bargained them down a little bit.

Seems a waste of time to me, but some people really enjoy it and I don't want to spoil anybody's fun.

USA has a cultural mix, so misunderstandings can happen. An old Alabama uncle raised horses. Yankee horse folks would visit him and he would put on his best dumb redneck act. They thought they were bargaining with a rube, and he would take advantage of the smart-ass yankees. On the other hand, maybe the yankees took the horses up north and quadrupled their investment foisting them off on even more foolish yankees.

[kb4ns]

They thought they were bargaining with a rube, and he would take advantage of the smart-ass yankees. On the other hand, maybe the yankees took the horses up north and quadrupled their investment foisting them off on even more foolish yankees.

Either way, I'm okay with it. I believe that to be a "win-win" situation!

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I can pretty much see both sides of this issue. As has been stated the store had several more guns of the same model/style already sitting on the shelf and the guns that they bought may well sit for quite some time before they actually do make any profit from them. And of course as has also been said the man said he would take whatever he could get because he wanted what he wanted, no one MADE him do it.

However I do feel the store could have given him double what they did and still eventually made a profit, the "when" of that with them already having a few others like it is the question.

Now I have a friend who does this sort of thing to himself pretty much all the time, he is compulsive and his only true love is collecting guns. He will see something he wants and run home to grab up some others to trade toward whatever it is he wants that day.

A very good example is that a few months ago he fired my OD green SR9 and wanted one so he told the store to order him one. He then called me when it was in to give him a ride to pick it up. On the way he told me what they said the cost would be and I told him that I had bought mine at the same store for a bit more than 100 bucks less and that he should try to get a bit better price. I am sure he could have but he refused to even ask and paid $429.00 + tax and TICS that day for the gun.

He put less than 100 rounds thru the gun. Just a few weeks ago he saw something at another store that he just had to have, so he ends up trading in the SR9 and took $125.00 bucks for it on the trade ! I was shocked when I found out and told him I would have given him more than that even though I already had one. His response was that I was not in town that day and he wanted what he wanted and he wanted it NOW. The shop later sold the SR9 for I think $389.00 which is a bit over three times what they had paid.

Now I am a bit upset with the shop for not giving him a bit more but they are in business to make money and no one MADE my friend trade his gun away at such a loss. And that is but one example of many. I have this year alone watched while he bought stuff for full price and traded it within weeks for a huge loss to get something else that he wanted, I estimate that he has lost several thousand dollars doing as he does this year alone. But as I said he does it to himself and I have talked to him until I am blue in the face about it but it is to no avail. He will continue to do just as he pleases when he sees something that he wants. Just like the man the OP mentions did.

I am rather new to this handgun thing and it seems from the descriptions that I may be a "horse trader" but not in my mind. I simply figure out what I need in a trade and if I can get it I am good, if I can not I am still good.

I recently traded in order to get my new SIG 226 Gadsden. Being on limited funds I had to trade in order to get something I really wanted. But I left the house with two guns knowing one of three things would happen, 1. I would return with the the Sig, 2. I would return with the Sig at least in law away or 3. I would return knowing I would never have one of them.

I told the store manager what I needed to happen and after some number crunching he was able to do me one up on the deal and I came hope with my new beauty and my SP on lay away for me to get back later. I say "one Upped" me because I had some accessories that I thought they would sell and that I would re-acquire when I was able to get the revolver back, they however put it all together for me to layaway. I got what I needed and then a bit. If it had not worked I would have been sad that I could not obtain that $1000.00 gun but I would have held no ill feelings about it.

My only other trade deal was with Hero Gear and a PPS-9 for a Sig 238. At one time I wanted nothing more than to have that PPS, I knew what I needed to happen and Joe @ Hero Gear was able to make it happen for me, I did spend a bit more out of pocket than I had planned but I wanted the Sig enough to do so, I did not try to counter offer and took what was offered and I am still thrilled today about that trade.

In both cases I am happy and the shops are happy, which is also the case in this story. Yes it is heartbreaking to see someone get less than they might otherwise in a trade but so long as both parties are happy it is not for me to question. I can "feel bad" for the person as I do the man in this story and my friend but bottom line is that it isnt MY deal or therefore MY business.

Watching this happen made the OP sick at Heart just as watching my friend do it does to me, but what are we to do? As has been said it takes two to make a deal and when both are happy when the deal is done who are "we" to say that it was a bad deal or that either party cheated the other?

[daddyo]

Let's cast blame where it's due. The gun shop didn't force the man to come in and sell his guns. He should have done his homework if he wanted a fair price for them. If he and whoever he was dealing with agreed on a price, then it is a legitimate business deal. If he didn't feel like he was getting a decent deal, he had the freedom to just walk away.

I don't see the problem here.

[kcevans]

Their Crooks, Bottom Line

[tnhawk]

Before I purchase a gun, I research the prices and availability. It's rare that I sell a gun.

I try to do business in a manner that I don't have a problem when I look in the mirror every morning.

[enfield]

So, I guess this means it's now perfectly acceptable to jump in on classified threads, telling the seller that their gun is over/underpriced, yes?

Try it and find out!

[Guest Jamie]

Their Crooks, Bottom Line

Ah, you're just pissed off 'cause you couldn't get 'em that cheap.

J.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Their Crooks, Bottom Line

Ever dealt with them?

[DarrellG]

Having sold firearms for a living, I understand business and especially the gun business. They have overhead to pay and they along with any business is there to make a profit. Selling new firearms doesn't pay the bills selling used firearms does. The most important thing in sales is the customer and if he (the customer) was happy with the deal then that's all that matters. For everyone to get upset over another persons sales deal is really off the mark.

[A.J. Holst]

The seller could have / should have done some homework and may have been able to negotiate a better deal.

If the buyer low-balled and he said yes, well good for them.

Bottom line if the seller is happy with his deal, no harm no foul.

A good deal is how you feel, not the actual price.

I even traded a S&W .32 Polie Regulation for a brand-new Ruger P95, no tax +$10 TICS. Was it a good deal? I don't know, but I had a rough idea what it was worth and I was happy when I walked out of Mike's Gun Shop in Tazwell, TN

I agree with the sentiment of many, if I know a LGS is buying low, selling high, not only on guns, but accessories, I won't shop there.

[Guest Travtastik]

With out hearing the whole story its hard for me to say I would not spend money at RB. I did alot of trades at my old store and I let them know up front if you trade you will lose money. We priced trade ins at a price that if someone walked in looking for that item, they would by it right away. Ifused it was worth $2000 we sold it for $1500 so we could get our money fast. We could have got more but how long would the item be sitting around with money tied up in it. In most all our cases our profit was lost in the trade and we didn't make money till the trade in was gone. If your profit is sitting in a trade you can't pay the bills at the end of the month.

Just making up #'s here but if the new gun sold for say $400 and dealer makes $100 on a sale. By offering $180 for 2 guns he has lost $80 at that point. If he already has a few 65's there that he cant sale then its costing him money to make the deal. If they sit on the shelf for a month or two its that long till he sees a profit off the deal. After a few deals like this its hard to keep the doors open. I may be way off with the numbers but I am just throwing it out there since someone said they had some 65's in the case.

Also if they already had a few used 65's there maybe they were not intrested in his and just threw a crazy price out there and he jumped all over it. I once had a guy that had to have this new mower but he wanted to trade in one that I already had 3 used ones sitting there. I told him I was not intrested and that I didn't need it. He says just make me a offer. I told him $500 thinking he would take a hint that I didn't want to trade and he took it. I had the 3 used machines priced around $2500 to $3000 and he knew that too. I was shocked and had to ask him again to make sure I was hearing him right. He said "I don't care I want it." Maybe the counter guy was thinking I already have a few of these and I don't need anymore, hell I'll throw out a offer he will never take, and boom he takes it. Well at that point what do you do? Say no? Then the old guy tells everyone he knows RB's made me a offer on a trade and when I said I'll take they backed out.

[SavageSig]

That isn't right. Just because the guy was a sucker doesn't mean the store should have taken him like one. If they're an honest business, they'll give an honest appraisal and make an honest offer based on it. If they appraised them at 300 and offered 80, that's another story entirely. The guy was informed and he chose to make a decision. But let's face it, you go to an expert because you expect expert advice. He didn't go to some crummy pawn shop, he went to a gun shop. I wouldn't want to do business with somebody who is constantly looking for ways to skin me.

Now, if they marked up the pistols to about 175 or 200 for resale, then that's another story entirely. If they give a deal because they got a deal, that's kosher in my book.

[DMark]

And let me guess, the trade-ins were both round butt, P&R, with a 3 inch barrel.

Think I'll go by RB today and asked if they have any $80 S&W Model 65s for sale.......

[Metalhead]

Oh man, I could write a book about this stuff.

[SavageSig]

Oh man, I could write a book about this stuff.

Care to elaborate?

[Metalhead]

If I told you then I couldnt sell the book!

Really this subject as a whole in general. There are always going to be people that think they should get retail price on a trade-in, but for the most part as long you are reasonable with people or at the very least upfront with why you giving them what you are there are situations like this can be avoided.

You are the vast majority of the time going to get more money from individual than a retail business. Just apparently some retail business's are a little more reasonable than others. Course we dont know the entire story, so its hard to say.

Edit: I'm also not insinuating that G&L is better than whomever else. There are some shops that just have to have a higher margin in firearms due to overhead. Every business is different in that regard - thus why we have the luxury in this country of shopping around.

Edit x2: Also consider that you pay taxes on the difference of a trade, so you are getting a little more than face trade-in value in that regard. A $800 tradein would actually be also saving you an additional $78 in sales tax.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Metalhead

[enfield]

Just for a data point, S&W revolvers sell. A generic M65 in good condition will sell for $300 +. They don't have locks and they're not being made anymore.

It's not like he was trading in Tauruses (Tauri?) and the value and saleability were questionable.

[kb4ns]

as long you are reasonable with people or at the very least upfront with why you giving them what you are there are situations like this can be avoided.

That's my only beef with the deal, and it may or may not have happened - I wasn't there. If they were upfront with the customer and told him what his guns were worth and he agreed, I'm good with it. If they just saw a sucker and made it sound like the guns were barely worth $100, I take issue with it.

[daddyo]

Even if they told him that his guns were only worth $10, it was his responsibility to know what they were worth before he ever set foot in the store.

No, they should NOT take advantage of him, but the ultimate responsibility rests with the SELLER.

[Leadslinger]

Let's cast blame where it's due. The gun shop didn't force the man to come in and sell his guns. He should have done his homework if he wanted a fair price for them. If he and whoever he was dealing with agreed on a price, then it is a legitimate business deal. If he didn't feel like he was getting a decent deal, he had the freedom to just walk away.

I don't see the problem here.

This. +1

[enfield]

Good thread - I'm making a list of people I'd do business with.

[Mike]