Obamacare’s Hidden Gun Control

[Mike.357]

Is this form used only if u sell it for 600 in profit.

Or anything over 600

DUH!

if 600 bucks exchanges hands a 1099 must follow to be within the law, it has NOTHING to do with profit.

I am fairly sure you are liking this.

[Mike.357]

All those that

voted for the healthcare bill just perfomed an act of treason.

thank you. Congress needs to be re-arranged. Not much I can do, this district is very conservative.

There are plenty of others that need to be looking for work next year.

[Oh Shoot]

...

And can someone please clarify what 1099 is exactly? And what purpose it serves?

Traditionally it is used for paying temporary labor, like freelance work and whatnot.

For example, folks who used me in the past for puter/graphics services, but I wasn't on their payroll.

They'd issue a 1099 at end of year for total amount of services, a copy of which goes to IRS also.

I have issued a few myself, for hiring other freelancers to help with certain jobs, etc.

1099-MISC is generally for labor/services

Banks and financial managers also use them, as interest, dividends, and etc. They issue 1099-INT, 1099-DIV

There are actually a bunch of different 1099's, like:

• 1099-A: acquisition or Abandonment of Secured Property
  
• 1099-B: Proceeds from Broker and Barter Exchange Transactions
  
• 1099-C: Cancellation of Debt
  
• 1099-CAP: Changes in Corporate Control and Capital Structure
  
• 1099-DIV: Dividends and Distributions
  
• 1099-G: Government Payments
  
• 1099-H: Health Insurance Advance Payments
  
• 1099-INT: Interest Income
  
• 1099-LTC: Long Term Care Benefits
  
• 1099-MISC: Miscellaneous Income
  
• 1099-OID: Original Issue Discount
  
• 1099-PATR: Taxable Distributions Received From Cooperatives
  
• 1099-Q: Payment from Qualified Education Programs
  
• 1099-R: Distributions from Pensions, Annuities, Retirement Plans, IRAs, or Insurance Contracts
  
• 1099-S: Proceeds from Real Estate Transactions
  
• 1099-SA: Distributions From an HSA, Archer MSA, or Medicare Advantage MSA
  

- OS

[Guest strelcevina]

DUH!

if 600 bucks exchanges hands a 1099 must follow to be within the law, it has NOTHING to do with profit.

I am fairly sure you are liking this.

Not really.

[Guest Keinengel]

Mike.357 has the 100% right idea about this. If and when this bill passes I will do any and all peer to peer sales under the radar. The government has proven time and time again in the past 10 years that they have absolutly no idea what to do with our tax dollars once they get them.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Is this form used only if u sell it for 600 in profit.

Or anything over 600

Hi Strel

Until now it was a very little-used form. A typical small biz might send 1 or 10 1099's per year.

Some kinds of interest income would be reported via 1099 (a 1099 sent from a financial institution to an investor who received interest). Perhaps most typical was 1099s for consultants and contractors. If a band leader paid a sideman musician $30,000 per year as an independent contractor, the band leader would send a 1099 to the musician (and a copy to the IRS). That way if the musician did not claim that 30,000 as income, then the IRS would eventually figure it out.

Or if a builder hires a carpenter as independent contractor. Or a software company hires a programmer as independent contractor.

If the new law is not changed, if I buy more than $600 from Staples in office supplies, I have to freaking find out Staples Tax ID and send Staples a 1099. If I buy a new biz computer from apple or HP, I have to freaking find out Apple and HP's Tax ID and send 1099s to Apple or HP. It is absurd!

In addition to the hassle factor and onerous paperwork requirements, I think it will suppress trade and retard the economy. For proprietors who are not big enough to have a full time bookkeeper or accountant or at least a full time office clerk, I think a lot of proprietors will avoid spending more than $599 at any single supplier, just to avoid filling out the damn forms.

[RobD]

I see all this lunacy and all I can think is that it will create a black market for goods and services.

[gotigers]

Most of these items have depreciated and you are going to have a loss out of the sale. So, why would a 1099 be required.

[Glenn]

Most of these items have depreciated and you are going to have a loss out of the sale. So, why would a 1099 be required.

It has nothing to do with profit or loss, it is selling price. It doesn't matter how much you paid for the item originally. It's all about control of the economy.

Glenn

[Ebow1]

What about putting a gun on layaway an making multiple payments? Assuming the gun is $600+, would it still count since you're making multiple payments? What if you use multiple cards for payment?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

An individual making a personal transaction of precious metals or firearms or autos-- whatever. Where this law applies, such individual might avoid the law in protest and if a lot of people do it maybe he has low odds of being caught. Such things often do not HAVE to go on a Form 1040 anyway.

But for a business, they've got you over a barrel and you HAVE to comply unless the law is repealed. Your choices would be--

1. Send 1099. Claim the expense. Legally avoid paying tax on the valid expense. The expenses are not valid bottom-line profit and you don't owe tax on anything except profit.

2. Don't send 1099. Don't claim the expense. Pay tax on gross income rather than net income.

If a contractor maybe takes in $250,000, pays $200,000 in expense, materials, supplies, pays income tax on his $50,000 profit-- The guy can't afford not to send 1099's to all his suppliers, because he doesn't make enough profit to pay the tax on $250,000 even if he spends his entire profit on the tax.

[Moped]

If you sell it to me, there won't be any taxes. Never happened, right?

Hey Mike, this was my point. The average citizen isn't going to take the time to fill out a 1099. They are just going to sell the item and pocket the cash. There are a bunch of examples every weekend all over the country. They are called garage sells. I believe that in the City of Knoxville and in Knox County, you are suppose to apply for a permit to hold one and the State expects you to turn over the Sales Tax for any sales. Everyone ignores those regulations.

[mikegideon]

Yep, this is gonna add costs to FFL transactions. It's enforceable because the Feds have access to their paper trails. I see fewer FFL transfers happening, even across state lines.

[Oh Shoot]

Look, the average non-business owning person who sells something won't even know HOW to file a 1099, even if he wanted to.

This is only going to affect legitimate biz owners who already comply with all the existing paperwork; it will simply add another unpaid duty to their accounting.

Which means they'll raise prices to cover it.

Which the government thinks will mean more sales tax generation for states/cities if nothing else.

But like all things of this nature, it means that hampering business and making them raise prices means less buying volume from an already cash strapped citizenry, which means less sales volume for business, which means less income tax to the fed.

- OS

[Ebow1]

Which also means more businesses closing their doors.

[Mike.357]

OS and I had a discussion about this last night.

There is no way the average person is going to send out 1099 forms, it is ridiculous.

So If I buy a gun for 600 bucks, or buy anything for that matter I am supposed to send that business a 1099 form?

First where do I get the form? How do I fill it out? How many millions of transaction happen annually that involve this amount of money? It is unenforcable. More stupidity out of DC.

The only way it is enforcable is for a jack boot to be laid on my neck. Are we coming to this point? If so the USA is done as a country, and a 1099 form is the least of our troubles.

[G27]

Which also means more businesses closing their doors.

I think more than anything we'll see massive non-compliance among business owners.

I, for one, have zero intention of changing anything about the way I operate in order to comply.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And it would take more than 16000 new IRS agents to make people comply.

Nothing but over reaching that has to be corrected in the next session.

[Guest strelcevina]

Could it be that they try to enforce and tax online transactions.

It is very hard to hide paypal transactions.

16k more geks working from home making money to monitor online sales .sounds doible

[Guest 6.8 AR]

16k geks?

[mikegideon]

OS and I had a discussion about this last night.

There is no way the average person is going to send out 1099 forms, it is ridiculous.

So If I buy a gun for 600 bucks, or buy anything for that matter I am supposed to send that business a 1099 form?

First where do I get the form? How do I fill it out? How many millions of transaction happen annually that involve this amount of money? It is unenforcable. More stupidity out of DC.

The only way it is enforcable is for a jack boot to be laid on my neck. Are we coming to this point? If so the USA is done as a country, and a 1099 form is the least of our troubles.

Don't think so. That purchase is already taxed. It's the other way around. If you sell to a dealer, they are going to tax YOU. So much for looking out for the little guy. The 1099 was created to catch under-the-table income. Looks like they're taking it to the extreme now. Technically, you're supposed to report all income. Cash deals tend to slip under the table because there's no paper. A 1099 is the paper. They still won't be able to track sales between individuals.

[mikegideon]

16k geks?

16,000 geeks. I speak fluent Strel

[Mike.357]

I am not sure how my selling something I already bought and paid for is income.

More than likely I am selling it at a loss anyway.

Sounds to me that any private sale of anything I may sell is being taxed twice now.

But then again the Big O promised no new taxes, so I must be wrong.

[mikegideon]

I am not sure how my selling something I already bought and paid for is income.

More than likely I am selling it at a loss anyway.

Sounds to me that any private sale of anything I may sell is being taxed twice now.

But then again the Big O promised no new taxes, so I must be wrong.

You're not wrong. Pass the salve.

[Ebow1]

As far as enforcing online transactions go, most people don't spend enough money online for the IRS to care. Let's say I find a good deal on cigarsinternational.com. I get enough cigars to last me for a year for about $200 over the course of multiple transactions. It would cost the IRS more money to track me down and force me to pay the necessary taxes on the $200, and yes, they do already pay attention to UPS records to track those kinds of things, but like I said, most people just don't spend enough online.