Obamacare’s Hidden Gun Control

[Tim Nunan]

Disturbing if true - Tim

Obamacare

Obamacare’s Hidden Gun Control

By E.F. Nappen, Esq.

General Counsel and Board Member, Pro-Gun New Hampshire, Inc.

[Posted Saturday, July 24, 2010, at 9:00 a.m. This updates the version posted 7/23.] Effective January 1, 2012, the national healthcare legislation passed by Congress contains tax provisions that will require gun dealers to report to the IRS their purchases of guns and any other goods valued over $600. This reporting will be required for purchases from either individuals or corporations. The new IRS provisions apply to all goods and services. IRS 1099 forms will have to be filed, reporting the purchase by the gun dealer. (This same IRS issue exists for gold and silver bullion dealers, coin dealers, knife dealers, car dealers or any other business that buys goods from a person.)

It applies to all businesses who buy from "persons." If you sell your gun for over $600 to an FFL, the FFL must send in a 1099 on you which reports the sale by you to the IRS. It is not simply a "business to business" reporting requirement. (Which, even if it was, would still be bad for business.)

Sec. 6041 says:

"All persons engaged in a trade or business and making payment in the course of such trade or business to another person, of rent, salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations, emoluments, or other fixed or determinable gains, profits, and income (other than payments to which section 6042(a)(1), 6044(a)(1), 6047(e), 6049(a), or 6050N(a) applies, and other than payments with respect to which a statement is required under the authority of section 6042(a)(2), 6044(a)(2), or 6045), or $600 or more in any taxable year" (Emphasis added)

This has the effect of creating a system of gun "sales to dealer" registration, controlled by the IRS. It also creates mountains of more paperwork for dealers who are already burdened with filling out 4473's, A&D (Acquisition and Disposition) Bound Books, receipts, and all the other paperwork associated with gun business. Even purchases made at gun shows or at people's homes by gun dealers will have to be reported. The current Form 1099 requires the buyer to state for what purpose the payment was made. (See: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099msc.pdf and note blocks 1-14 of the 1099 form.) Who knows how the IRS will rewrite the new form and what more information will be demanded?

It is true that gun dealers already have to keep A&D books that require very specific information. However, the information is not centrally databased by the IRS. This new law creates a list of private gun sellers with the IRS. Also, FFL's who fail to file 1099's on folks who sold them guns and were paid over $600 may be caught during their license inspections by way of their A&D books. This will cause trouble for the gun dealer and tax trouble for the private seller.

Modern sport/utility (AR-15 type) rifles sell for over $600 even at used wholesale prices. Your quality tactical or custom handguns easily sell for over $600, and finding shotguns worth over $600 is not hard at all. $600 in ammunition is not a lot at today's prices. Even if the dealer buys a pile of clunkers but pays out over $600 to any person, the report to the IRS must be made. Ammunition, knives, parts, reloading equipment, accessories, or any other goods valued over $600 must be reported to the IRS. The bottom line is, sell your gun or other goods to a dealer for over $600 and it must be reported to the IRS by the dealer.

Rep. Dan Lungren has introduced a bill (H.R. 5141) to repeal this section.

Section 9006 of the bill amends Section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code in the following way:

SEC. 9006. EXPANSION OF INFORMATION REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.

(a) IN GENERAL.-Section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code

of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsections:

‘‘(h) APPLICATION TO CORPORATIONS.-Notwithstanding any regulation prescribed by the Secretary before the date of the enactment of this subsection, for purposes of this section the term ‘person' includes any corporation that is not an organization exempt from tax under section 501(a).

‘‘(i) REGULATIONS.-The Secretary may prescribe such regulations and other guidance as may be appropriate or necessary to carry out the purposes of this section, including rules to prevent duplicative reporting of transactions.''.

( PAYMENTS FOR PROPERTY AND OTHER GROSS PROCEEDS.-

Subsection (a) of section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended-

(1) by inserting ‘‘amounts in consideration for property,'' after ‘‘wages,'',

(2) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,'' after ‘‘emoluments, or other'', and

(3) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,'' after ‘‘setting forth the amount of such''.

© EFFECTIVE DATE.-The amendments made by this section shall apply to payments made after December 31, 2011.

Sec. 6041.

(a) Payments of $600 or more

All persons engaged in a trade or business and making payment in the course of such trade or business to another person, of rent, salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations, emoluments, or other fixed or determinable gains, profits, and income (other than payments to which section 6042(a)(1), 6044(a)(1), 6047(e), 6049(a), or 6050N(a) applies, and other than payments with respect to which a statement is required under the authority of section 6042(a)(2), 6044(a)(2), or 6045), or $600 or more in any taxable year, or, in the case of such payments made by the United States, the officers or employees of the United States

having information as to such payments and required to make returns in regard thereto by the regulations hereinafter provided for, shall render a true and accurate return to the Secretary, under such regulations and in such form and manner and to such extent as may be prescribed by the Secretary, setting forth the amount of such gains, profits, and income, and the name and address of the recipient of such payment.

[Mike.357]

I heard about this on Becks radio show Friday. I am believing it is true.

If you come to my yard sale and buy my big screen TV and entertainment center for 625 bucks a 1099 will need to be involved to keep it all legal.

it is just not about gun dealers. ( assuming Beck was telling the truth)

its a bunch of crap. I do not think it is legal.

And I expect ammo hoarding to begin again before this takes effect.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Mike.357

[Guest Keinengel]

I totally agree that this is some of the dumbest ***** he's tried to do during his term. However calling this a "hidden gun control" Isn't neccesarily the case since it applies to ALL purchases over 600 not just firearms. No need to get the tinfoil hats out over this and I seriously doubt he'll get away with this little "addition" anyways.

[Guest strelcevina]

I totally agree that this is some of the dumbest ***** he's tried to do during his term. However calling this a "hidden gun control" Isn't neccesarily the case since it applies to ALL purchases over 600 not just firearms. No need to get the tinfoil hats out over this and I seriously doubt he'll get away with this little "addition" anyways.

that is why it is Hidden.

TVs and guns shouldn't be treated equally.

[Kenstaroni]

I saw Beck's comments on his show the other day about this. He referenced it as a way to control the buying of precious metals like gold. He associated it with the mass gold turn in required by FDR in the 30's. The government is saying "oh, that's not going to happen....we'll....guess what, it already has!. This falls right in line with all the spending and de-valuing of the dollar. The governement will try to make sure people's money is invested in dollars, not other items so when the dollar plumets it leaves the citizen's at thier mercy as they create a new "Plan"....cough..cough..the Amero currency.

The government should not have any power to oversee or regulate purchases of any amount, but let alone $600. Beck also mentioned they are now allowed to spy on your credit cards per the Financial Reform bill. This is more control and taxing on the people, which is the reason behind all of this administration's "Change". None of this was needed, they just put a tax proposal in a pretty package and say it's here to fix one of the many "crisis" that somehow keep developing. The people can fix these things on thier own, it's not the government's job, nor did anyone ask them to help. Did anyone else percieve that healthcare was in a crisis state? Did anyone feel that we needed to bail out banks that made bad loans, only to put those responsible in charge of the new Financial Reform comittee, a group of non-elected representatives who are now able to take over any company they "feel" is unstable? This is another un-constitutional move by this tyrannical government. They are going to keep pushing and pushing....I can't wait to help push back.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Kenstaroni

[Oh Shoot]

Enforcement will perhaps be an "interesting" proposition.

For example, you are also supposed to pay TN sales tax on all items bought out of state, too, including internet purchases.

Just sayin'...

Of course, all businesses with an federal or state EIN will be easier to check than others....

- OS

[Mike.357]

No need to get the tinfoil hats out over this and I seriously doubt he'll get away with this little "addition" anyways.

get away with it? it is already a done deal, just waiting for the start date now.

[Guest Keinengel]

that is why it is Hidden.

TVs and guns shouldn't be treated equally.

But in a perfect world thats basicly what we want. We want to be able to go to a shop and be in and out with a new firearm with as little trouble and extra taxes/fees and such as buying anything else. The hardest part about buying a T.V. is getting from the store to your truck and then into your living room and it shouldnt be any harder for legal gun purchases.

[Guest Keinengel]

get away with it? it is already a done deal, just waiting for the start date now.

And it and all the other lovely little legislations Obama and his thugs are passing are gonna keep getting worse and worse until "We the People" stop complaining and waiting on those idiots at fox news to preach for us and start standing up to our government the right way. I don't want to sound like a wing nut or just a simple trouble starter but in case you guys haven't noticed the only way to make the idiots in office listen is force through one means or another.

[Mike.357]

And it and all the other lovely little legislations Obama and his thugs are passing are gonna keep getting worse and worse until "We the People" stop complaining and waiting on those idiots at fox news to preach for us and start standing up to our government the right way. I don't want to sound like a wing nut or just a simple trouble starter but in case you guys haven't noticed the only way to make the idiots in office listen is force through one means or another.

preaching to the choir, you are. I was just expressing it has already been passed, and while the Big O signed off on it he is not the only one who wanted it.

And Strel, guns, TV's, die cast cars, etc... The gov't does not need to be in my business. They already collected tax when the item was sold new.

[Il Duce]

so build your own ARs lol

[Mike.357]

so build your own ARs lol

that would get you around the 600 beans thing, but that is not the point. What if you want to buy my four wheeler?

It is not about guns. It is about the .gov becoming more and more intrusive on our lives.

[Guest Keinengel]

that would get you around the 600 beans thing, but that is not the point. What if you want to buy my four wheeler?

It is not about guns. It is about the .gov becoming more and more intrusive on our lives.

Exactly. This happening with everything we can think of nowadays...

[Moped]

This is one reason I buy "Used", from individuals. No one is going to fill out a 1099 for IRS on anything when they are selling something in an individual transaction. Heck I don't even know anyone that puts the correct price on a car title when they purchase it from another individual, cause who want to pay all that sales tax when they turn it into the county for a new registration... Well maybe Magicarpetride does, but being an Auto Dealer, he has too.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Moped

[Mike.357]

The last used car I bought I was questioned about it when I registered the automobile. I looked the clerk right in the eye and asked if the county gets to set sales prices on used cars now? I was told that the price stated was well below the amolisted value. I agains asked if i was supposed to not get a good deal where I could?

I was told that an audit was possible, I told them to register the car at the price I paid. Never heard more about it.

and Moped, it will be required, not optional if an item is over 599 bucks. We have not had that before.

I hope a new congress can do something about it.

[mikegideon]

Well, you can't really call it gun control if it covers everything. Sounds like a big misc. income crackdown by the IRS to me. They were trying to scrape enough pennies together to pay for all of this, and playing the 1099 game is one way to do it. Looks like new taxes to me. I see a lot of folks sneaking past FFL transfers as much as they can when it goes into effect.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

It will be massive extra records burden on businesses large and small. I don't see how any small business or self-employed would ever vote democrat after getting pissed at April 15 2013 or sooner. Whenever they sit down and do all that dam extra paperwork.

[Mike.357]

Looks like new taxes to me.

that exactly what it is. I buy something new from Walmart and I pay tax on it. I resell it to you and then taxes are again owed..

I promise I am not complying with this law.

The libs are bending us over every way they can. I hope a lot does not change before the next potus election

[Guest TargetShooter84]

The dumb****'s healthcare needs to be reppealed and thrown out.

And can someone please clarify what 1099 is exactly? And what purpose it serves?

[mikegideon]

that exactly what it is. I buy something new from Walmart and I pay tax on it. I resell it to you and then taxes are again owed..

I promise I am not complying with this law.

The libs are bending us over every way they can. I hope a lot does not change before the next potus election

If you sell it to me, there won't be any taxes. Never happened, right?

[mikegideon]

The dumb****'s healthcare needs to be reppealed and thrown out.

And can someone please clarify what 1099 is exactly? And what purpose it serves?

It's a form to report Misc. Income. If you get paid money over a certain amount, a 1099 is required by law. You get a copy, and the IRS gets a copy. At the end of the year, you owe income tax on it.

BTW... this has little or nothing to do with health care.

[Guest strelcevina]

Is this form used only if u sell it for 600 in profit.

Or anything over 600

[Guest strelcevina]

Dp.

[Mike.357]

The dumb****'s healthcare needs to be reppealed and thrown out.

And can someone please clarify what 1099 is exactly? And what purpose it serves?

My wife used to do work for a sales rep where she worked, she made over 600 bucks. We got a 1099 form and owed taxes on that amount. They have expanded the 1099 just a tad.

If you sell it to me, there won't be any taxes. Never happened, right?

Oh you know it my man, I am not participating and I encourage civil insurrection in this regard. I actually own some things that I was planning on selling down the road (years) I may try to do it sooner.

It's a form to report Misc. Income. If you get paid money over a certain amount, a 1099 is required by law. You get a copy, and the IRS gets a copy. At the end of the year, you owe income tax on it.

BTW... this has little or nothing to do with health care.

it has ZERO to do with health care. 80000000000 pages and no one knew what was in it when they voted Yea on the bill.

They are ****-ing us with this.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It is multiple taxation on the same item being sold again and again.

It's also creates gun lists. Since it has nothing to do with health care,

I wonder why it was put in the bill, in the first place. It's what happens

when bills are written so large, intentionally, that lawmakers don't

read. If anyone is not angry about this, they are nuts. All those that

voted for the healthcare bill just perfomed an act of treason.