Guns in vehicles

[Guest 2HOW]

how does this differ from the OSHA argument that its a safety issue, letting employers ban guns from employee vehicles? http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=10452

[Guest David Waldrip]

My opinion is that the judge in Federal Court in Oklahoma was making an almost desperate justification of his decision by citing OSHA. In addition, the question is not so much about the workplace but the parking lot (the judge would disagree with that).

As a related note, everyone please keep in mind that the Governor and Attorney General in Oklahoma have appealed the Judge's ruling citing OSHA. Wish we had those kind of Democrat elected leaders in TN.

And, the last part of my two cents worth, is that this will be the next big issue in RTKBA. Too many folks, at least in the Memphis area, are disarmed every day in order to go to work for any of the several major employers.

[saintsfanbrian]

Don't ask, Don't Tell!!

[Mike.357]

What Brian said.

It is a lesson to everyone here that you ought to keep it to yourself unless you know 100% for sure that your employer supports your right to possess a firearm.

The person in the cube next to you or the guy on the line next to you who you think is your friend could very well cause you to get fired by having the knowledge that you have a gun on your person or in your car.

Remember TN is a right to work state and that means you can be fired for any or no reason at all.

[strickj]

CCW!!!!!like saintsfanbrian said dont ask dont tell!!!

[saintsfanbrian]

Had the head of security where I worked tell me that they are not going to go searching vehicles of all employees unless they have a really good reason like a threat being made. If they did they would probably find firearms in more peoples cars than they would like. Since there was a policy against it a lot of people would have been fired and that would have been very bad for the cause they were fighting.

[Guest db99wj]

Had the head of security where I worked tell me that they are not going to go searching vehicles of all employees unless they have a really good reason like a threat being made. If they did they would probably find firearms in more peoples cars than they would like. Since there was a policy against it a lot of people would have been fired and that would have been very bad for the cause they were fighting.

IIRC where you work, don't you need a couple of fender mounted Ma Duce's?

[strickj]

i will be da**ed before i let someone search my private property.I will not let a LEO search my car with out a good reason,let alone a frickin rent a cop!

[Marswolf]

For a lot of companies, allowing them to search your property is a condition of employment. You voluntarily agree to it in order to get the job. Really intended to let someone search without a warrant if they think you are stealing stuff, but if you have anti-gunners running the place, it allows them to search for weapons too.

[Guest flyfishtn]

Remember TN is a right to work state and that means you can be fired for any or no reason at all.

While this is true, it is not as easy as "you are fired". You must still produce documentation and still be taken to court and lose for your actions.

It has good intentions but the lawyers, again, make it painful.

[saintsfanbrian]

IIRC where you work, don't you need a couple of fender mounted Ma Duce's?

This was where I used to work before the place where I worked when we met. Now I work in happy east Memphis at Poplar and Kirby.

Still a minor threat but no where near as bad as it used to be.

[mrming]

I've got you all beat.

State property, a mile from a ghetto, and right next door to the titans practice field. They just canned some one for carrying, no CCW signs went up the day after.

No sense in leaving it in your car, either. Usually have about a break in per week. So if its not the hoods breaking into your cars, its the titans players in italian sports cars trying to run you over.

[Guest canynracer]

For a lot of companies, allowing them to search your property is a condition of employment. You voluntarily agree to it in order to get the job. Really intended to let someone search without a warrant if they think you are stealing stuff, but if you have anti-gunners running the place, it allows them to search for weapons too.

+1 - Welcome to my job....you signed the handbook, it is binding..but then again, the lot is a secured private parking lot owned by the company and patrolled by the companies security force. they have both armed, and unarmed, the armed are LEOs that do it as a second job, and federal agents (retired) that specialize in terrorism and they are EVERYWHERE...

They do not just search for no reason, and I am sure that people have guns in their cars...but I do not take the risk.

[Marswolf]

But to add a bit, I think government should prevent companies from not allowing guns in their employee's vehicles as a condition of employment.

[enfield]

But to add a bit, I think government should prevent companies from not allowing guns in their employee's vehicles as a condition of employment.

Companies have property rights the same as you and I. If I can ban guns on my property (and I can), then so can any company. JMHO.

[FlyboyLDB]

While this is true, it is not as easy as "you are fired". You must still produce documentation and still be taken to court and lose for your actions.

It has good intentions but the lawyers, again, make it painful.

Not true. As a TN employer I can just say I am letting you go. I need no reason - none. Whether you are justified in obtaining unemployment is another issue.

[Marswolf]

Companies have property rights the same as you and I. If I can ban guns on my property (and I can), then so can any company. JMHO.

You have property "rights" the same way you have gun "rights". You have the "rights" that government allows you to have.

IMHO, self-preservation rights are miles ahead in importance to property rights.

[Guest SomeGuy]

Companies have property rights the same as you and I. If I can ban guns on my property (and I can), then so can any company. JMHO.

So, in your opinion, the companies property rights applies to your property stored inside your property? By your standard, would it not then be acceptable for your employer to ban eggs from the facility, and then fire you for having eggs for breakfast becuase they are now stored inside you even though this in no way affects your work performance, and unless he searches you in a manner that is entirely inappropriate will never know?

[Guest SomeGuy]

You have property "rights" the same way you have gun "rights". You have the "rights" that government allows you to have.

IMHO, self-preservation rights are miles ahead in importance to property rights.

I disagree with the first part. When the government is allowing you to have something, it is a privilege. You have no right to some things, such as an education provided at taxpayer expense. It is your privilege as an American to have one though. You do however have the right to religion, speech assembly, own.carry gun, etc. When the government prohibits these, your rights have been trampled, and wrongfully taken from you.

Remember, the government never gave you freedom. At its best, government simply does not infringe on your liberty.

As to the second, under normal circumstances, I agree wholeheartedly. (The abnormals would be like what England has, where criminals have far more rights than they deserve.)

[DaveTN]

So, in your opinion, the companies property rights applies to your property stored inside your property? By your standard, would it not then be acceptable for your employer to ban eggs from the facility, and then fire you for having eggs for breakfast becuase they are now stored inside you even though this in no way affects your work performance, and unless he searches you in a manner that is entirely inappropriate will never know?

No, but they could ban you from bringing eggs into the facility in your lunch. “This is a Tobacco free facilityâ€. Those signs don’t mean that you can’t smoke; they mean that you can’t bring tobacco onto the property.

Employers can ban whatever they like.

Sorry, but I’m just against government intervention on this kind of stuff. Tennessee just saw fit to trample all over the rights of bar owners with the smoking ban; some will lose their business.

If you want to carry a gun to work find a job that will allow you to do that.

I will suggest the same thing here as I did about businesses that post “no firearms†signs. With most companies this isn’t about gun control; it is about liability. You shoot your co-worker while you are showing him your new carry gun in the parking lot and the company finds themselves having to hire attorneys and defend themselves in a civil action. Why? Because they are the “Deep Pockets†and the attorneys need someone with the ability to pay.

However…. If you can get legislation that removes liability by the company simply because you did this on their property and you may get something done. Even companies that may not like guns would probably support this because you would have the system recognizing that they are not liable for your ignorance simply because you were on their property when you decided to do something stupid; they could apply this to other areas.

[Guest canynracer]

I agree for the most part with Dave...with just one small point, not all companies ban because of the liability...mine does it because as a logistics company, threats to the comapny are very real...now for most of the smaller companies I agree, its liability...but for mine, they are more concerned with the threats of any type of terrorism, or threats to other employees. Yes, overall they are only protecting themselves...but that is where we choose to work.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

No, but they could ban you from bringing eggs into the facility in your lunch. “This is a Tobacco free facility”. Those signs don’t mean that you can’t smoke; they mean that you can’t bring tobacco onto the property.

Employers can ban whatever they like.

Sorry, but I’m just against government intervention on this kind of stuff. Tennessee just saw fit to trample all over the rights of bar owners with the smoking ban; some will lose their business.

If you want to carry a gun to work find a job that will allow you to do that.

I will suggest the same thing here as I did about businesses that post “no firearms” signs. With most companies this isn’t about gun control; it is about liability. You shoot your co-worker while you are showing him your new carry gun in the parking lot and the company finds themselves having to hire attorneys and defend themselves in a civil action. Why? Because they are the “Deep Pockets” and the attorneys need someone with the ability to pay.

However…. If you can get legislation that removes liability by the company simply because you did this on their property and you may get something done. Even companies that may not like guns would probably support this because you would have the system recognizing that they are not liable for your ignorance simply because you were on their property when you decided to do something stupid; they could apply this to other areas.

I could not agree more. Liability is the real motivator.

Canynracer, with regard to your company having very real terrorist threat concerns, it would seem to me that they would WANT their employees to not only have weapons at work but to be trained in how to use them in an office environment. I'm not arguing with you, I am just saying that your company seems to be approaching it backwards. The Police Department is a possible target for terrorism, but you don't see them keeping the officers from wearing their guns while in the building.

[Rightwinger]

I could not agree more. Liability is the real motivator.

Canynracer, with regard to your company having very real terrorist threat concerns, it would seem to me that they would WANT their employees to not only have weapons at work but to be trained in how to use them in an office environment. I'm not arguing with you, I am just saying that your company seems to be approaching it backwards. The Police Department is a possible target for terrorism, but you don't see them keeping the officers from wearing their guns while in the building.

Smokey,

Your statement is reasonable and cogent except for the fact that big buisness doesn't think that way! Its easier to stick their heads in the sand and say our signs and rules banning weapons will protect us. I for one hope it never happens and have never filed a lawsuit in my life. BUT if my company which disarms me to work there ever does have an employee or terrorist related shooting I'm filing something whether I get hit or not! Our 7.00 an hour "Security" at the gate would just be the first body to hit the floor as they are unarmed and incompetent. Corporate level animals are generally liberal minded having never been in the trenches nor having a real connection to firearms or their use. The few that shoot skeet or something still don't understand it as the weapons are usually brought to them by a flunky who then cleans and stores it until needed 4 years later.

I'm in Logistics as well, the threat to me is all the carriers allowed in the US from Canada and Mexico. Most of these guys can't even back up a big rig to our dock so that tells me they were recently hired. They speak little english so the idea that anyone of them could be a covered "mole" is not only possible but likely in my book. Let them all get in the "system" for a year, then on a specific date, load that special package on the trailers for all your moles and then....well a lot of companies don't get their material on time! I for one am for sealing all containers at the exit point and it not being unsealed for any reason till it reaches the consignee. Sorry, but this is the joke running around our offices at times, if "Camel trucking" sees a bunch of workers at those spots they deliver to in TN are armed, they might not want to risk being discovered.

Sorry for the soapbox....I'm out.

[Marswolf]

Well gee. I'm the customer for you logistical guys.

So far, I mostly see tinfoil.

[strickj]

im glad im self employed!