Dear Gunny's Indoor Shooting Range...

[Dolomite_supafly]

I understand Gunny's position. He must make some money to pay his employees as well as cover every day expenses. He can charge whatever he wants and that will be what leads to his customers happiness and untimately his prosperity or his death as a business. It sounds as though the economy as well as some misguided internal decisions are putting the shop into its last throws of death and I hate to see another option go away but such is life. I have been to Gunny's on a few occasions and even though his gun prices aren't the lowest I don't consider them out of line compared to what others seem to be charging in the area. I called to price a few firearms and in the end their prices were within $25 of the lowest once all the different fees and shipping tallied. To most who are spending $500+ on a firearm $25 more is nothing so long as they feel good about the purchase.

Will I go back to Gunny's? Hard to say but it is very doubtful but not because of them but because of me. I have shot on his range but it was in the fall when temps were nice. I did like his range as well as the layout. I never had a problem with any of the employees either.

As far as your statement Frontier Firearms. I am farthest from one who belly aches about pricing. If I don't like the pricing I just buy from someone else. You are making a blanket statement against everyone here when most here, including me, do not belly ache. Just as most FFL's do not gouge, most people here or even elsewhere do not complain. There are some people who complain just as there are FFL's that will lie, cheat and steal or cheat customers any chance they get to make a profit. I see it at every show I attend. I have caught them telling customers that ammunition made post June 2009 would expire in 6 months and then sell pre June 09 CCI Stingers for $27 a box and Federal Lightnings for $6 a box to that same customer. I have seen FFL's selling their battery operated 1x red dot Trijicon ACOG's for the great price of $750 to unknowledgeable customers (If you don't know there are no ACOG's that take batteries). I have also seen FFL's selling obviously home dipped ammunition as green tips. So in assuming that the few who complain must be everyone here you must also acknowledge that the few FFL's that lie, cheat and steal must be all of them, including you.

I have honestly been trying to make my way to your store since it opened. I have never stepped foot inside but based on the fact that you see all potential customers as a problem I will save you the headaches or belly aches that is.

Dolomite

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[Garufa]

How many more times do you intend on accusing the TGO membership of being "tax cheats"? I've counted 6 or 7 so far and it's really getting old.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but your tone is not conducive to attracting new customers.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Garufa
another tax cheat thrown in while typing

[Guest m&pc9]

if you knew much about the gun business (and you must for it seems everyone posting on this site who doesn't own a gun store is an expert while most of us gun store owners are greedy, ignorant, lying, wanna-be-thieves), .

This is what offended me.

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[Bubbatn]

.....why are you offended?

I (as well as most others) haven't posted on this thread, I believe this is what has offended most(at least on my part) is that you group "everyone on this site" as the same....

Finally, I note that everyone on this site belly aches about any gun store that might be earning a profit......

Just because there is a few that do as you mentioned(and I believe most of us realize they are some that do), doesn't mean "everyone" does. So like many others stated, You have lost some potential business from myself and anyone else that may ask for a review of your store from me.

[rg65]

By your response I assume you to be one of the whiners I was speaking of.... else you would take no offense those who are not whiners would have no reason to be offended because many of these threads prove my assessment correct.

What an interesting thread! Let me begin by saying that you will never win this argument here. While I understand your margins are low, and sales are tight, you might want to look in your organization to find someone who is more diplomatic and let them control this thread.

While I understand you jumped into this from a misunderstanding, you are not endearing yourself to anyone here with your comments. You cannot win.

You keep talking about Walmart and restaurants and their margins. When is the last time a manager of any one of these places chastised their customers (or prospective) customers with a rant like this? Walmart would send any associate caught doing this packing!

I too am a business owner. I offer a fair product for a fair price. I try to win over everyone I can for my business. Price is rarely an issue.

REMEMBER--If you make 1 customer happy they will tell 10 people BUT if you pee off 1 customer they will tell everyone they know and some they don't know.

[Murgatroy]

I am probably in the minority here, but I appreciate the Mr. Williams coming here and trying to set the record straight.

I for one was not aware of the margin of profit on firearms. I didn't assume it was huge, but I never for the life of me assumed it to be so narrow.

I understand his frustration, and I sympathize with with him in this harsh economic environment.

He does have a point about us not being his customer base, to a degree. It is rare that one of us (and by us I mean 'educated gun enthusiasts') would walk into a store without an idea in our head of what we wanted, and what said item is worth. Now, that is not a bad thing for us, but for a salesman, that is a nightmare. No offense meant to the profession. The idea is to upsell and convince the consumer of what they want. When the consumer already knows what they want, the sale is more difficult to make on many levels. What if you don't have what the consumer wants? What if your price is not competitive? It is not as easy to sell in a brick and mortar when you are talking about a high dollar item since the advent of the internet.

Myself, I have found that most of the time, it is the same price to buy from a LGS than it is to ship to an LGS and transfer.

Now, I have a few things for Mr. Williams.

First, if your net profit from a sale is around $30, what is your net profit from a transfer? I would think it would be equitable, and if not, please help me understand why it isn't. You don't have to hold the item in inventory for an extended period of time, and the labor for the 4473 would be similar to that of a sale. If it is an item that you don't regularly stock, how does it inconvenience you to transfer it? Wouldn't ordering it for inventory cost more in the long run? Shipping, space time lost in placing the order, waiting for arrival and so forth? This is also a selfish question, as I would like to understand why so many dealers are loathe to transfer firearms and charge so much. To my layman's opinion, it would seem much less hassle than stocking the item.

Second, why the hate about 'tax evasion?' I mean, I understand it, I work hard and see very little return on it, as there are millions on welfare taking it from me. However, as a business, don't you get your items tax free to begin with, and as such charge the consumer sales tax on the item? That is how it works in my business. I sell products for resale, and once a retailer gives me their Tax ID number, I don't charge them tax, as it is their responsibility to charge the end consumer sales tax. As such, I am a little confused as to how this correlates into the argument. Do you pay tax on said items in inventory on April 15th? And if so, wouldn't an item sent for transfer be exempt from this as it is not really in inventory?

For the record, nothing you have said would stop me from being a customer, and I understand you are frustrated, but coming here and attacking all the members with blanket statements did kind of rub me the wrong way.

[Garufa]

A tax cheat is someone who orders a gun online and then brags (as many do on TGO) about doing so for the sole purpose of avoiding paying the Tennessee Sales and Use Tax. They are tax cheats plain and simple.

Cite some examples.

For your information, many people order online because the local gun shop either does not have the desired item in stock or will only order at a premium from their distributor(s). Very few around here that I've noticed "brag" about ordering a gun online just to avoid taxes.

[S&WForty]

Cut Frontier some slack ya'll. We've all seen internet arguments where blanket statements get made, hairs are split, and for that reason, the arguing can go on forever. I don't expect that a gun store owner posting on the internet be 100% perfect in every statement he makes. Frontier makes some good points. That gun store vs. jewelry store line is pretty good. LOL

What I do expect from a gun store owner is that when someone sets foot in his store, his employees should at least act courteous and friendly. To anyone located in the area of Frontier that has never shopped there, and now refuses to because of comments in this thread, I suggest you give the guy a second chance. I'd judge his business on actual experience in his store than what he's said here in a less-than-ideal manner.

Anyone that's ever worked a job (retail or non-retail) where they are NOT the customer knows the customer is NOT always right.

[dralarms]

:stunned::stunned::stunned:Wow. I can't beleive the turn this thread has made. Never been to gunny's but have been to frontier (if it the one in Kingston off 356A). very cramped, had a lot of selection, but at the time didn't have what I had been hunting for. Seeing this additude come out here I think I'll stick to All American Guns here in Athens, They have treated me right every time I go in. And have been able to find most anything I wanted. This is unbelieveable for a business owner to speak to a customer or potiential customer in such a manner. I'm slef employed and if I did that to even 1 customer I'd be screwed much less potientially 9000:screwy::screwy:

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[titan14]

Cut Frontier some slack ya'll.

well now mr. S&Wforty....how much "slack" has frontier boy gave US (all TGO'ers).

He blanketed YOU with being a "tax-cheat" and a "belly-acher"...that doesn't piss you off???

I damn sure bet it would if he said it to your face...

Cut him some slack??????........NEVER!!!!!

[titan14]

You are 100% correct that the word EVERYONE was too broad, unfair and, not accurate. It wasn't "everyone" it just seemed like it on the tread I responded to.... even TGA Dave comment that it seemed the posters were trying to drive off Gunny's business.

In as far as you basing a decision to shop or not shop at Frontier Firearms that is your privilege albeit one that I will regret come time to pay my bills.

However, that you would give Frontier a negative review on the basis of my having used the wrong choice of a single word "everyone" instead of "many", I can only shake my head in shame -- shame for you.

In fact, your words soil the badge you display as your Avatar - a tribute to members of our Armed forces and Law Enforcement.

What I wrote had nothing to do with how you or any other customer would be treated in our shop. That you would review of our store negatively based on the my post is nothing less than dishonest. Unless you have shopped at Frontier and had a bad experience to say anything negative about our store without shopping in it would be a false.

He can have a NEGATIVE impression of YOUR shop because of YOUR (the owner) ignorant comments.

If I don't like the local car dealer (because he is ignorant) ...should I still go shopping at his dealership?

[TGO David]

Hmmm. Tax cheats. I guess this means that Mr. Williams reports every single item that he or a member of his family purchases online or by mail from an organization which doesn't collect tax due to having a brick and mortar installation of some sort in Tennessee. Because honestly, it's all the same whether it's a gun or a pair of shoes.

[Bubbatn]

However, that you would give Frontier a negative review on the basis of my having used the wrong choice of a single word "everyone" instead of "many", I can only shake my head in shame -- shame for you.

In fact, your words soil the badge you display as your Avatar - a tribute to members of our Armed forces and Law Enforcement.

What I wrote had nothing to do with how you or any other customer would be treated in our shop. That you would review of our store negatively based on the my post is nothing less than dishonest. Unless you have shopped at Frontier and had a bad experience to say anything negative about our store without shopping in it would be a false.

I am not basing my negative review solely on you making that broad statement, it is how you have showed your character in this thread. In my opinion...for what its worth, A store owner should be able to be the bigger man and either ignore a statement like that(who really cares what they think?), or simply send them a private message wondering what their problem is and make things right. (especially with something as simple as what your statement was started upon....what wages you pay your employees?....really?)

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[East_TN_Patriot]

Maybe as an owner I am overly sensitive to such complaints. All I know is that we spend hours and hours trying to come up with polices and pricing to make our business as friendly as possibly and it never seems enough.

Welcome to the world of business. If you can't handle criticism from the public, it seems you are in the wrong business. This started out as a thread complaining about Gunny's, positive comments were made about Frontier, you jumped in and bashed all of us. That tells me a lot.

I'll stand by this -- Frontier has many good customers on this thread. They will continue to be our customers because I doubt my words insulted them because they are not tax cheats or know-it-alls (in the sense that they know more about running a business than the people who actually do run them - I'm not talking about gun knowledge)

I was one of those customers. I have bought firearms, ammo, and accessories from your store. I was virtually always treated extremely well by your employees. But I don't plan on returning. As one other post noted, you painted with a very broad brush and basically said that anyone who complains is a "tax cheat," "whiner," "know-it-all," or any other number of pejoratives. I've worked in a small gun shop. I have my own small business. Customers are your bread and butter. You can explain your point without being insulting and anytime you are willing to run off any paying customer, including the annoying ones, you are heading down the wrong road.

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms

[TGO David]

You are correct... If any of my actual customers are pissed by what I have said I will apologize to them personally. To others my words offended either you fil the bill or are just looking to be offended. Nothing I said was not true (is not true) I did however use a few incorrect terms for instance everyone" instead of "many".

Are you just here to piss people off? Just looking to blow off some steam? I'm honestly trying to figure out what you are trying to accomplish because your words so far seem designed to assault and offend rather than mend fences and attract new customers to your shop.

Frankly I'm starting to wonder if you really are who you say you are. It's becoming really hard to imagine that someone in business for themselves would really come onto the largest firearms forum catering specifically to residents of their state and just start throwing punches like this. It's mind blowing considering the lengths that other gun shops go to in order to attract a loyal following, yet you seem bent on pushing people away.

Very odd.

[Guest FrontierFirearms]

never mind

Edited November 28, 2010 by FrontierFirearms