Recieveing Threats from a HCP?

[Smith]

Question about HCP suspension. If an employee is fired and their significant other makes verbal threats is that grounds for their HCP to be suspended?

Situation is this:

The place I work had an employee fired and the person fired made specific threats towards two current employees on behalf of their significant other. If a report is made would that trigger a HCP suspension or is that a different process? I personally would rather that be added leverage, since I would be the first to encounter the individual if he were to follow through. Just curious and while I am technically not armed at work, I always have the means to "protect" myself if need be.

[Oh Shoot]

I guess the right kind of order of protection could do it as per 39-17-1352 as it refers to 39-17-1351.

But almost certainly "hearsay" accusation to TNDOS probably wouldn't.

- OS

[Smith]

Thing is he threatened a big time law firm. Not the brightest guy . I'm sure they know the right channels, I was just curious for my own information for future reference.

[Oh Shoot]

Thing is he threatened a big time law firm. Not the brightest guy . I'm sure they know the right channels, I was just curious for my own information for future reference.

I'm sure they'll know.

Only three things right off that I can see by the statutes short of an actual disqualifying conviction:

- charged with violent or drug felony (other felonies, maybe, maybe not, depends on hearing)

- order of protection

- TNDOS gets convinced that he "Poses a material likelihood of risk of harm to the public" (the Kwik nuke)

Maybe the lawyers can get the third one done.

- OS

[Mike.357]

I am not sure I understand the scenario.

So I get fired and threaten someone from that workplace with the fact my wife has a HCP and will get you. ( do I have that right?)

If that is it I don't know how her HCP would be in danger of suspension.

Maybe I am not following closely enough, it is not 6 am yet. Still waiting on the caffiene to kick in.

[Smith]

I am not sure I understand the scenario.

So I get fired and threaten someone from that workplace with the fact my wife has a HCP and will get you. ( do I have that right?)

If that is it I don't know how her HCP would be in danger of suspension.

Maybe I am not following closely enough, it is not 6 am yet. Still waiting on the caffiene to kick in.

Sort of. The fact the husband has an HCP only indicates that he may be armed if he does show up to back up his verbal threats. I thought maybe using the fact he could loose his HCP could be used as extra leverage to help him calm down a bit more. I guess it's all mute unless a restraining order is granted, which this particular law firm could get easily if the desire. i was more curious about how threats in general can affect HCP privileges.

[Mike.357]

So the fired guy has a permit, but his spouse made threats.

I am not sure how threats from a person other than the HCP holder could be used against the HCP holder.

Most people come to their senses in a day, emotions calm down. Hopefully that is what will happen in your case.

Anyway this whole scenario is just another in a series of reasons to carry concealed and not to let people know you have a

permit. All it takes to cause trouble for the permit holder is for someone to make an accusation that a threat was made or a gun brandished. ( even if it did nothappen) If no one knows then none of that can happen.

[Smith]

No the wife was fired, but delivered threats on behalf of her husband who has an HCP. If that makes sense.

Not the first time it has happened and I'm not really worried about it, just got me thinking.

The e-mail that was passed down simply stated the scenario and then added that he had an HCP and was known to carry a gun but never on the premises or in our building. It carried with it a sense of extreme heightened fear due to the HCP. Of course if they knew all the folks that were armed in this building they would probably be just as concerned and fearful.

[bronco302]

According to your post no HCP holder has made any threats, why would you want this to be add leverage to take his permit?

Joe W.

[JReedEsq]

I don't see it happening, and quite frankly I wouldn't agree if it did. I've never seen anyone prosecuted for making a threat on behalf of a third party unless the third party is present and conducting themselves in a way that puts others in fear. What if this guy's wife is a hot-head and he's got no intention of harming anyone? Maybe he needs to keep his guns out of her reach, but I don't think we need the courts involved and I don't think there would be any basis for a revocation of his HCP.

Edited July 23, 2010 by JReedEsq

[E4 No More]

Can't say that I want to have my HCP suspended based on something someone else said that I said. I don't know why you would. Would you feel that if you were the HCP carrier in question?

[Mike.357]

I don't see how the HCP'r could lose his permit based on his wife being a wack job.

[Guest HvyMtl]

IMHO, the HCP would not be threatened due to the wife's action. Criminal Lawyer I am not. But, from what I can gather from what little info the OP has given, the wife has threatened bodily harm, or death, by having her husband show up and shoot people. Right? If so, there is enough to warrant a restraining order. Probably against both.

The threats may rise to a level of criminal activity. Depending. But again, the lack of info...

But, as you said, the wife was "fool enough" to threaten a law firm. That right there shows poor decision making.

My suggestion, let the law firm handle it. I doubt this is the first time they have been threatened.

[vontar]

I think that would fall under Hear say . If the HCP'er did not directly say it to them, the the HCP'er did not make a threat to them.

[Punisher84]

Wow Smith lol think about it buddy. Would you want your HCP suspended because your significant other told someone "My boyfriend/husband has a gun and a HCP and he'll shoot you dead!" Meanwhile you're at home watching football and eating doritos oblivious to the situation.

The only person that could be in trouble right now would be her. She's making threats technically. If she is the one verbalizing it, she is making the threat. Same as if she said "I'll bring my doberman up here and let him attack you". She's using her husband's gun and permit as the threat, but she is conveying it.

[Smith]

Wow Smith lol think about it buddy. Would you want your HCP suspended because your significant other told someone "My boyfriend/husband has a gun and a HCP and he'll shoot you dead!" Meanwhile you're at home watching football and eating doritos oblivious to the situation.

The only person that could be in trouble right now would be her. She's making threats technically. If she is the one verbalizing it, she is making the threat. Same as if she said "I'll bring my doberman up here and let him attack you". She's using her husband's gun and permit as the threat, but she is conveying it.

No i agree. I'm not advocating either way. I was mainly curious if something so simple could trigger that kind of action. I know in other cases such as child abuse allegations or domestic violence the charge is almost a damnation from the get go never mind actual findings. Many of us have said something in the heat of an argument that we would never follow through with or is simply an extreme expression not to be taken literally. I was just curious if the above situation could actually trigger a suspension or revocation hearing.

My statement about using the threat of suspension as leverage to calm him was not directly related to the initial question, but more of a practical one on one discussion I might have with the individual outside of a legal context. My presentation confused the two.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'll give some personal light into a similar situation that I went through regarding threats by a third party.

My father called me stating in essence that my brother, who is a heavy drug user, was holding him hostage at gunpoint. I told him I was calling LE and my father stated my brother stated he would kill anyone who called LE. My father stated my brother would know when I contacted LE.

I contacted LE by going to the SO in person. I spoke with the sheriff who stated that because my father didn't call LE that my statement that he was being held hostage was heresay. I asked about what my father had said about my brother stating he would kill anyone who contacted LE, including me. Again it was heresay because the threat did not come directly from my brother but came through my father. In the end the sheriff said they would do nothing unless my father called to file a compalint. I asked about a welfare check on the residence and was told if LE showed up to do a check and had to kill my brother that LE would be held accountable because they had no probably cause to be their other than heresay. My father didn't contact LE that day or in subsequent days out of fear of what my brother would do. This all occurred on September 23rd last year.

The first week of October my brother tried to make good on his threats to kill anyone who contacted LE. On that day he assaulted our mother then left the residence with a AK-47 stating he was going to kill my family and I. I received the call from dispatch notifying me of my brother's intentions. LE responded and my brother fleed into the woods before reaching our house. He had a standoff with LE in which he threaten their lives as well. I had SWAT team members in a creek on my property watching the house until they located my brother. After he was located and subsequently arrested he threatened suicide and was taken to a mental hospital for a eval. In light of his threats of suicide as well as statements by my mother, my brother was released and all charges dismissed although his AK-47 was confiscated.

In the end I learned that unless it is a direct threat it does absolutely no good to notify LE. My brother is still telling people he is going to make good on his threat to kill me he is just not threatening me directly so their is nothing I can do. I know it is coming, it is just a matter of time.

Dolomite

[Smith]

I'll give some personal light into a similar situation that I went through regarding threats by a third party.

My father called me stating in essence that my brother, who is a heavy drug user, was holding him hostage at gunpoint. I told him I was calling LE and my father stated my brother stated he would kill anyone who called LE. My father stated my brother would know when I contacted LE.

I contacted LE by going to the SO in person. I spoke with the sheriff who stated that because my father didn't call LE that my statement that he was being held hostage was heresay. I asked about what my father had said about my brother stating he would kill anyone who contacted LE, including me. Again it was heresay because the threat did not come directly from my brother but came through my father. In the end the sheriff said they would do nothing unless my father called to file a compalint. I asked about a welfare check on the residence and was told if LE showed up to do a check and had to kill my brother that LE would be held accountable because they had no probably cause to be their other than heresay. My father didn't contact LE that day or in subsequent days out of fear of what my brother would do. This all occurred on September 23rd last year.

The first week of October my brother tried to make good on his threats to kill anyone who contacted LE. On that day he assaulted our mother then left the residence with a AK-47 stating he was going to kill my family and I. I received the call from dispatch notifying me of my brother's intentions. LE responded and my brother fleed into the woods before reaching our house. He had a standoff with LE in which he threaten their lives as well. I had SWAT team members in a creek on my property watching the house until they located my brother. After he was located and subsequently arrested he threatened suicide and was taken to a mental hospital for a eval. In light of his threats of suicide as well as statements by my mother, my brother was released and all charges dismissed although his AK-47 was confiscated.

In the end I learned that unless it is a direct threat it does absolutely no good to notify LE. My brother is still telling people he is going to make good on his threat to kill me he is just not threatening me directly so their is nothing I can do. I know it is coming, it is just a matter of time.

Dolomite

WOW! The dropped the case? What a great system we have, huh? Stay safe D. i know it won't help much but can't you at least get a restraining order?

[Dolomite_supafly]

WOW! The dropped the case? What a great system we have, huh? Stay safe D. i know it won't help much but can't you at least get a restraining order?

After being arrested but before my brother's court case I went to the clerks office to get one. I had one in hand that had been signed and approved by the judge but knowing how things can turn I asked if my brother could get a retaliatory order against me. The judge stated he would sign my brother's order of protection against me as well. I asked how it was possible and he said he would take his word just like he took mine even though my brother was sitting in a cell with charges pending.

I have clearances that that I must maintain as part of my work (if I ever heal up enough to go back to work after my helicopter accident). If he would have gotten one against me my clearances would have been revoked without question. I would have probably lost my HCP as well.

I kind of laughed at the judge and said I have more to lose than my brother. I crumpled up the restraining order and asked a cleark to throw it out while I stood there talking to the judge. He said I didn't need to throw the restraining order away but as he walked away he said that peice of paper isn't going to stop a bullet either if your brother wants to kill. I again laughed and at that point my wife grabbed my arm and said it wasn't worth the hassle.

Dolomite

[Guest TnRebel]

I don't see how the HCP'r could lose his permit based on his wife being a wack job.

Maybe thats why he is a HCP'er LOL

[vontar]

Wow, Dolomite_supafly , I read that just shaking my head. If anything we learned if someone screws us how to screw them back but that is just how broken the %#^%@#&*%$ING system is broken.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Even after all of this just three days ago I again offered to pay for his residential treatment. I seriously doubt he will take me up on it but at least I have been offering. Problem is he is going to get upset when I tell him I will not give him the money for treatment but will give it directly to the clinic. I have offered for years and even took him to his methadone clinic to make sure he got there. Only problem was he had a plan before he started. He said he would get his methadone for free but once he got close to finishing the program he would take some hydro's and say he relapsed to get more methadone. After hearing that I told him I was done taking him.

Sorry OP for hijacking, I am done now.

Dolomite

[JAB]

The e-mail that was passed down simply stated the scenario and then added that he had an HCP and was known to carry a gun but never on the premises or in our building. It carried with it a sense of extreme heightened fear due to the HCP.

As if someone who has an HCP is any more likely to 'go postal'? As if someone who is intent on shooting the place up, committing or attempting murder, etc. is going to be dissuaded from doing so by the fact that they don't have an HCP and can't legally carry the firearm they plan to use to commit such murders to the location in question?