Unburned powder?

[kb4ns]

So it seems like the few sets of 45ACP reloads I've put together perform well, but I always end up with unburned powder on my arms while shooting. What's up with that?

[Guest jackdm3]

Yeah! What's up with that?

[roverboy]

What powder are you using? Are you using a good taper crimp? A .45 needs a faster burning powder like Bullseye, W 231 , Unique, etc. I'm not insulting your intelligence. I just wondered why this is happening.

[kb4ns]

Unique. And you won't insult me. I'm still pretty new to the reloading thing.

[kb4ns]

Oh, and for the crimp, I believe I'm using more of a light roll crimp. Using the 4pc Lee die set.

[leroy]

KB:________________

I have seen a bit of the "unburned" powder thing with Unique over the years. It seems to run "hot and cold" (...no real pattern...). In my experience; it seems to show up more with lead bullets. I've seen it in 45 ACP and the big revolver cartridges (...44 special, 45 colt...). My guess is that it is related to both crimp (...always use a good taper crimp ...about .002...) and individual powder lot characteristics. It seems to me that the newer batches of Unique seem to be cleaner burning. I sometimes use WW231 for the quicker burning loads ---- 231 burns cleaner; and is pretty close to the "quickness" of Unique.

All that being said; ive burned a 'ton' of Unique over the years (...there's a 4 lb caddy down in the loading room now...) in everything from 38 special thru 45 colt with good results. I regularly load 5.2 grains in 38 special, 7.5 grains in 44 specials, 8.0 grains in 44 mags, 8.5 grains in 45 colt; all with lead bullets. Always use a heavy roll crimp with revolver loads. All these loads are powerful and accurate.

Unique is a great powder.

Hope this helps a bit.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[enfield]

Agree - it's typical for Unique. It's the main reason I switched to Bullseye for my .38/.357 loads.

[kb4ns]

Thanks for the help, guys. I've noticed it to a lesser extent with 9mm loads, but it was terrible with the 45's. I've used a good bit of Universal Clays with 45 loads and haven't had an issue. Guess I'll stick with that until I can pick up some Bullseye or 231 (or both).

[kb4ns]

My guess is that it is related to both crimp (...always use a good taper crimp ...about .002...)

I guess I'll have to break out the instructions for the die set and work on that crimp issue. Hopefully they'll help. I love Lee products, but their instructions absolutely suck!

[gregintenn]

More crimp.

[glockster157]

What bullet weight and powder charge? If you have a light load and really low pressure, some gas and powder will come back at you from the chamber. Are the cases really dirty, carbon fouled at the mouth? If so, up the charge a little at a time, staying within book data(the books have really lowered the max charges over the years though) and use that strong taper crimp. I will usually increase a charge until I get a clean case, slightly flattened primer and close to book listed velocity. I once had to go 1.5 grains over AA's book data with #7 to even get close to their published data.

Also, I agree with Leroy on his Unique data. One of my favorite all time loads is 5.2 grains, 158 lead SWC, 38spl case, WW primer. This is a +P load and comes straight from the Lyman 46th edition manual. Now the 48th edition list 4.7 as the +P max load but my chronograph doesn't bare that out. Neither does the round primer, dirty case (from lack of pressure) and low velocity. BTW, I have never shoot this load in anything but 357 revolvers.

[leroy]

KB:___________

The way that i set the crimp is to take a loaded round and put it in the press (...make sure your run the seating plug back a bit so that you dont push the bullet into the case too far as you do the crimp...), run the round all the way to the top of the press stroke, and screw the crimping die down until it just touches the top of the brass (...you can feel the ram trying to move down...). Lower the ram a bit and turn the crimping die down about 1/6 turn (...one flat...) at a time, run the ram and round to the top of its stroke; crimping the round a bit, and use your calipers to see how much crimp you get (...measure right at the top of the brass, just a hair from the end of the brass...). Keep turning the die down using the 1/6 turn at a time until you get about .002 crimp. Then lock the crimp die down and crimp the rest of the batch. That should work well for any of the straight walled auto cases like the 9 mm or the 45 acp.

By the way; Glockster makes a great point here in regard to low pressure loads:

....If you have a light load and really low pressure, some gas and powder will come back at you from the chamber. Are the cases really dirty, carbon fouled at the mouth? If so, up the charge a little at a time, staying within book data (the books have really lowered the max charges over the years though) and use that strong taper crimp. I will usually increase a charge until I get a clean case, slightly flattened primer and close to book listed velocity... .

This has been my exact experience too.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Leroy

Edited July 23, 2010 by leroy
added note from Glockster

[kb4ns]

What bullet weight and powder charge?

I've noticed it using various plated Berry's bullets.

Are the cases really dirty, carbon fouled at the mouth?

Yes, they are. Guess I'll start upping the charge bit by bit. I'm just a little more cautious since they are plated, not regular ole FMJ...

The way that i set the crimp is to take a loaded round and put it in the press (...make sure your run the seating plug back a bit so that you dont push the bullet into the case too far as you do the crimp...), run the round all the way to the top of the press stroke, and screw the crimping die down until it just touches the top of the brass (...you can feel the ram trying to move down...). Lower the ram a bit and turn the crimping die down about 1/6 turn (...one flat...) at a time, run the ram and round to the top of its stroke; crimping the round a bit, and use your calipers to see how much crimp you get (...measure right at the top of the brass, just a hair from the end of the brass...). Keep turning the die down using the 1/6 turn at a time until you get about .002 crimp. Then lock the crimp die down and crimp the rest of the batch. That should work well for any of the straight walled auto cases like the 9 mm or the 45 acp.

Awesome. Thank you both for your help!

[leroy]

KB:_________________

Saw your post about the Berrys Plated Bullets. Dont worry too much about pressures; the plated bullets are alot more like lead (...only difference is the thin copper plating to prevent leading...) than the full metal jackets. They will not develop the pressures that jacketed bullets will. I use them all the time in our little 357 sig glock 33 (...they are great practice loads...). Here is some interesting reading from Rainier: Loading Data regarding the plated bullet load recipes. We use the Rainer stuff all the time (...get them from Midway...). They are just like the Berrys bullets.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[kb4ns]

Here is some interesting reading from Rainier: Loading Data regarding the plated bullet load recipes.

That's interesting. I found this on the Berrys website when I first started using their bullets:

Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

I've been basically "splitting the difference" between lead and jacketed starting recipes. For example, if lead called for me to start at 5.0gr and jacketed called for me to start at 6.0gr, I'd start loading somewhere around 5.4gr~5.5gr. So far, it's worked fine for me. I don't have a chrono, but the loads feel right. No obvious signs of excessive pressures.

[leroy]

KB:________________

I understand. We use the rainier bullets with the 357 sig. Load them pretty hot. About 1275 fps out of the little glock (...chronographed thru a CRONY...).

They work great; very accurate. I like the plated bullets. Matter of fact, we have 500 of the 200 grain 45ACPs and a pile of once fired brass in the loading room to load up for the 45's at the house.

RE: The hot load warning from Berrys. My guess is that they are worried about copper flaking off when shooting 'hot loads" and lodging in the barrel (...which i believe is extremely far fetched...). Mr. Berry must have a lawyer brother or kid.

Keep up the good work and let us know how the next batch of reloads turn out.

Kind regards,

Leroy