410 shotgun shells and pistol, strange questions

[vontar]

A friend of mind told me about seeing a boxed set of what he beleived where antique dueling pistols that could shoot .410 shotgun shells. He told me a person showed them to him over 20 years ago and ask me if I knew of any pistols that could shoot .410 shotgun shells.

On the surface I told him, I was not aware of any but it got my attention and I would ask around.

I ask my dad and he told me he had heard that it is possible to shot a 410 shotgun shell though some .45 pistols but does not know anyone who has ever done it.

I did a little research on the Internet and found some place that said you can shoot a .410 shotgun shell out of a .45 pistol but the rifling really mess' up any chance of getting a good pattern.

So here are the question.

1. Is it true you can really shoot .410 shotgun shells out of some .45 pistols?

if answer to question 1 is no I guess the rest of the questions are a pointless.

2. I assume it would have to be a revoler, probably could not be a semi auto?

3. Seems like the birdshot would be damaging to the rifling in the barrel or am I over

thinking it?

4. I guess you could also shoot Slugs?

If this is true and it would not be damaging to the gun or considered dangerous I might look into a .45 that could use .410 shells as backup. In the same way as a 357 can use .38's as backup.

Here is one forum I found where some people where discussing using a Taurus revoler with .410 shotgun shells.

Taurus .45/.410 pistol - TheFiringLine Forums

[enfield]

1) If the revolver had an adequate chamber length, you could shoot .410's in a .45 Colt revolver. The rifling should have some affect on the patterns especially at longer ranges. Taurus makes such a revolver.

2) Correct. AFAIK, there are no .45 Colt semi-autos. The grip dimensions on a .45 Colt semi-auto would be enormous, not to mention the dimensions required for even 2-1/2" .410 shells. Unless the gun used a separate mag well like a broomhandle Mauser.

3) Lead shot would not hurt the barrel.

4) You could also shoot slugs. Accuracy should be abysmal.

You can shoot .45 Schofield in a .45 Colt revolver, much the same as shooting .38 Special in a .357. However, .45 Schofield is scarce and expensive.

Edited July 21, 2010 by enfield

[vontar]

Cool,

I think I will at least look into that as an option then.

Any chance you could list some Taurus revolver's that can use .410's. I will check back later I have to run to work for a few hours of OT. This is normally my off day.

It is considered safe to use .410 with them, safe as in if you follow normal safe gun practices right? In short, it should not explode in my hands right?

I would be ok with the Accuracy, as that would be short range, and as if used as a carry firearm would be loaded with .45's.

[monkeylizard]

Here are the current production Taurus .410/.45 models

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

[JeffL]

The Taurus Judge is their model that will either shoot .410 shells or .45 Long Colt. It is a big clunker of a weapon and .410 is a very poor choice for self defense.

The gun is designed to shoot either and will not explode in your hands using .410 shells. There are also some derringer type pistols that will shoot either .410 or .45 LC. Note that .45 Long Colt (revolver cartridge) and .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) are not the same thing.

[JAB]

Of course there is the Taurus Judge that is made to shoot both. That is the revolver that is being discussed in the thread at the link you posted. The Judge is specifically designed/intended for such use. It has a longer cylinder (to allow .410 shells to be chambered) and from what I have heard (haven't shot one or even inspected one all that closely) they have very shallow rifling so as to not mess up the pattern of the shot that much. A couple of the big ammo companies have recently developed and put on the market .410 ammo that is supposed to be optimized for use in handguns. The Judge isn't the first handgun intended to be capable of chambering/firing both .410 and .45 ammo but it has seen a good bit of popularity and is likely the impetus behind such ammo development. There are now models of the Judge designed for 2 1/2 inch shells (I think that was all that was available in the earlier models) and some that can chamber 3 inch shells.

I have also heard that the shallowness of the rifling negatively impacts the accuracy of .45 ammo fired from one but, again, I have no personal experience from which to speak. My understanding is that some rifling has to be present to legally prevent this from being a smooth-bore handgun which are, apparently, controlled under U.S. firearms laws. Personally, I see little use in a Judge handgun but some folks apparently really like them. My mom wants one of the new 'snubnosed' models just for fun but is waiting to find a used model ($500 - the average price I've seen on the new ones - is a bit more than she wants to spend on something that will mostly be a 'toy'.) Taurus also recently announced (not sure if they are in production, yet) a model called "The Circuit Judge" which, rather than a handgun, is a revolving rifle that is capable of chambering/firing both .410 and .45 ammo. I can see some usefulness in a Circuit Judge and if I were going to own a Judge that is probably the one I would want - as long as it turns out that the measures Taurus has taken to protect the user from the cylinder flash prove to be successful.

Bond Arms and a couple of other companies make two shot 'Derringer' type pistols that are also capable of chambering either .45 or .410 ammo. I have no experience firing one of those, either but the Bond Arms 'Derringers' are also quite expensive (but are said to be very well made) as well as heavy and pretty bulky for a two-shooter. Also, Heritage firearms is supposed to be coming out with a single-action .45/.410 revolver. My understanding is that it was supposed to be out last month or this month but the release date has been pushed back until August or so.

Finally, all my life I have heard that it is possible to chamber/fire a .44 round through a single shot .410 shotgun. I'd think one would need a really heavy barrelled shotgun to stand up to the pressures generated by a .44, though. Personally, I wouldn't try it and will just stick with .410 slugs if I need to send a solid projectile down a .410 barrel.

[daddyo]

2) Correct. AFAIK, there are no .45 Colt semi-autos. The grip dimensions on a .45 Colt semi-auto would be enormous, not to mention the dimensions required for even 2-1/2" .410 shells. Unless the gun used a separate mag well like a broomhandle Mauser.

Did you mean to say that there are no semi-autos chambered in .45 Long Colt?

[vontar]

Finally, all my life I have heard that it is possible to chamber/fire a .44 round through a single shot .410 shotgun. I'd think one would need a really heavy barrelled shotgun to stand up to the pressures generated by a .44, though. Personally, I wouldn't try it and will just stick with .410 slugs if I need to send a solid projectile down a .410 barrel.

Dad told me pretty much the exact same thing.

Off to work, I am reading all this.

I do want to feel a .410 though a pistol, and it would probably be a range toy or loaded at home. Probably not a carry, sounds to big. But I will be looking over all the suggestiong when I get home. later.

[KahrMan]

Did you mean to say that there are no semi-autos chambered in .45 Long Colt?

45 Colt is the same thing as 45LC or 45 Long Colt. I do not know why but they changed the name several years ago. Now a 45 Colt is not the same thing as a Colt 45. The former being a 45 Colt cartridge while the latter being a 1911 that shoots the 45 acp. That should make everything clear as mud.

Edited July 21, 2010 by KahrMan

[monkeylizard]

Probably not a carry, sounds to big.

Actually, they aren't so big that you couldn't carry it. they make a shorter barreled one called The Judge: Public Defender. But they're both a poor choice for carry, at least with the .410 shells. Check out the test results from The Box-O-Truth. The .45 Colt looks like it would be fine for that, and you could use the .410 shells for something besides self defense, like clays, or those things with no legs.

The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1

Edited July 21, 2010 by monkeylizard

[vontar]

Look at something like this

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

3" chamber, even more ammo options

Guess you could use both 2.5" and 3" .410 shell's

in case one is harder to find the the other.

I was watching the video's on some of them.

[Desert Rat]

Vontar:

If you are interested in trying a Judge that shoots both 45 and 410 I have a couple of models. I have the magnum which shoots a 3 inch shell and ones that only accept a 2.5 shell. PM me if your are interested in test firing one. I carry one around my property for legless varmints with #4 shot and 45 JIC. I would definitely suggest test firing one before purchase as they are not for everyone. They can be carried!

As for the 44 in a 410 it would probably be the 44 Russian rather than the 44 mag and there are rumors that people actually cut down 410s to pistols in the double barrel configuration but I can neither confirm or deny that I have personally seen one with an eight inch barrel and pistol grip.

The Judge is legal because of the grooved barrel just like the Bond Arms derringers such as the Snake Slayer. I would not recommend that because I can not control one with 3 inch Buck. I guess that makes me a wimp.

[Mad_Squirrell]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1546592/the_judge_taurus_handgun_45_410/

This video explains the purpose for the design

"specifically designed for use in the vehicle" I wouldn't have one as my carry weapon but truck/car gun you betcha .

[Desert Rat]

That has got to be #7 or lighter. I use that for some practice but load 000, #4, or 45 depending on where the gun is going to be and used for. Federal makes a shell just for this weapon and Hornaday makes a 45 for it also.

[Murgatroy]

T/C also makes a single shot, break action .45LC/.410. It is possible this is what your friend saw as he described them as 'dueling pistols.'

As mentioned the Judge (chambered in .45LC/.410) is becoming very popular. There are also derringer style pistols made by Bond in this chamber. There are a number of other manufacturers as well, but not as common.

As to the .44 being shot out of a .410, I have heard this all of my life, but I have never met anyone that has tried it. I am thinking it was a misnomer, where folks meant the .45LC/.410 combo.

[vontar]

ok,

I only found one 3 inch chamber.

MODEL 4510 .45/.410 (3" CHAMBER) MATTE STAINLESS REVOLVER

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

I wish it was in black instead of stainless. Maybe there are some more models

They have some video's on some of the 2.5 inch but not all the Judges.

I am trying to find out if the Barrel on this one is Ported like the Video shows on another Judge with a 2.5 inch chamber and if it i has the same accessories rail

check the example in the video for

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

However watching the video, it leads me to believe the video may be talking about the 3 inch chamber when they talk about type of Buckshot that it can shot. 3inch mag. So they may be showing the one I am interested in.

[onemancoyote]

Look online at a 'Comanche' pistol. Ive seen these in person and they look ROUGH, but they have a kinda 'mad max' cool to them.

Edited July 22, 2010 by onemancoyote

[daddyo]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1546592/the_judge_taurus_handgun_45_410/

This video explains the purpose for the design

"specifically designed for use in the vehicle" I wouldn't have one as my carry weapon but truck/car gun you betcha .

Not to be combative, but I am suspicious of anyone who promotes a firearm when they are being paid by the manufacturer to do so. It's why I generally don't believe what I hear in gun shops unless I know and trust the person behind the counter. I'm perfectly capable of doing my own research and making my own decisions based on that research, which is what I believe everyone should do before they decide to put their trust in ANY weapon.

[Desert Rat]

I failed to add the video shows a custom load because of the volume of shot and lack of wad. Having fired this gun at targets of various distances i would call BS on this video and suggest anyone who is interested test fire a box of each type of round you wish to use. If you are in East Tenn I have some different versions and would be willing to allow you to shot if you provide the ammo and clean after. Just PM me. For rounds I would suggest #4, 000, and Hornaday personal defense 45. It will handel the Hornaday Leveloution in 45 which I have for my lever guns. Federal makes a #4 just for handguns. I would also recommend CT grips against snakes of all varieties because you may not have the time to aim

Edited July 22, 2010 by Desert Rat

[Guest KustomHD]

I own a Taurus Judge Public Defender 2inch barrel, I do use it for my concealed carry, with a Black Hawk holster. I have fired 45 Long Colt , 410 .000 Buck real fun, 410 Bird Shot all in the Federal 2 1/2 inch hand gun load. Also have tryed the new Winchester Supreme Elite which has 3 plated projectiles & 12 plated bb's and I love what the Winchester ammo will do to a car door at a junk yard it's AWSUME !!!! So if someone says the 410 is not good for defence there not right. I LOVE my Public Defender the most out of my 4 gun line up Rossi462 / 357, TaurusPT111 9mm, Taurus PT145 Millineum Pro 45. As far as the price of the Judge I found mine at Academy Sports the price was $469.00 the best price I found !! AND yes Academy Sports has the blue model but I got the stainless model. In my opinion BUY IT !! you wont be sorry.

[Desert Rat]

Thanks for the heads up on the Winchester because that would be a good all purpose round for hiking which is what I use My Judge for. By the way where did you find the Wichester ? I can not find iit available on line.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Desert Rat

[vontar]

I am going to get one or 2.

I am going to start with a 3 inch chamber, but I do like the public defender allot as well.

[Desert Rat]

Ultra Lite 3 inch barrel and a 3 inch chambered 6 inch barrel would be my suggestion.

[mhmd]

Do they still make the Thunder 5 in Piney Flats, TN? I think that was the Mad Max gun.

[Guest KustomHD]

Hey Desert Rat, The Winchester Supreme Elite which has 3 plated projectiles & 12 plated bb's I bought my first box at The Outpost Armory on I-24 just south of Murfreesboro for 13.99 BUT just last Saturday I found that the WallMart in Murfreesboro on Old Fort just off I-24 exit 78 has the Winchester Supreme Elite for 11.95 and the Federal 410 Hand Gun ammo for 12.95 WallMart is where I have been getting my Federal ammo from for a while, NOW I picked up 4 boxes of the Winchester Supreme Elite less expensive than 45Long Colt but yes I have some boxes of those also. Cant never have to much ammo !!! LOL