1911 Reliability, What Does It Really Mean? Hilton Yam

[tnhawk]

Agreed, but those are several thousand dollar custom 1911s you are talking about. The FBI's Springfields are $2500 and custom made and hand fitted by experienced gunsmiths.

And they are well worth the price!

[Chucktshoes]

I swear! Sometimes I think you jokers buy 1911's for the same reason a brotha wears his pants half way to the floor. 'Cause everyone else is!

Bonedaddy, after that statement we absolutely have to get together soon. We will see if you change your attitude any after I let put a mag or 2 through my 1911. You just might want to trade in your tupperware!

[K191145]

My ex-Kimber had occasional failure to go into battery type malfunctions, always at the last round of the magizing. It could happen with any mag I had but more often with a pricy Chip McCormic Shooting Star 8 round mag. I changed out the recoil spring from the factory 16lb to an 18lb hoping the extra tension would cure that but it didn't, polished the feed ramp but that didn't stop it either. The most reliable it was was with some off brand cheapo mag I bought at the show for $4. When I first shot the mag the floorplate fell off after the first round dumping the spring and rounds out on the ground. We all had a good laugh at my $4 magizing but one day I actually soldered the plate back on the mag and never had a malfunction with it.

I loved that Kimber, it was the most accurate handgun i've ever shot but was real finicky about magizines. I guess i could have had a gun smith work on it but wound up trading it in to get my G21. The bottom line is reliability, if I carry a handgun I want to be very confident it will work every shot. There's alot of guns I want, a .44 magnum/special, a .357Sig, but if I had a grand to spend today I would buy another 1911 but this time I just want a plain jane like a Springfield Mil-Spec or the new Remington.

[JDM175]

Interesting reading from a guy who knows a thing or two about 1911 and weapons in general.

From Vickers Tactical

FAQ’s with Larry Vickers

7. How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?

That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Although I haven't shot my 1911 as much as my Glocks, I

haven't encountered any reliability issues with the gun. It's

only been with the ammo. My Springfield hi cap( my son

said to use the term "wide body", but I'm lazy:D) has been

flawless.

[mikegideon]

Although I haven't shot my 1911 as much as my Glocks, I

haven't encountered any reliability issues with the gun. It's

only been with the ammo. My Springfield hi cap( my son

said to use the term "wide body", but I'm lazy:D) has been

flawless.

That wide body isn't any fatter than your Glock, right? My Springer single stack has been real reliable so far.

[timcalhoun]

First let me say that I agree with Larry mostly. I think most gun owners are better served with a glock.

But what Larry is really talking about is the extractor on a 1911. If a 1911 is built right, about all that can go wrong with it is that dang traditional extractor. No matter what you do, at some point you will have to address it, and though it is simple part to put in and adjust most folks simply will get frustrated and give up and call the platform unreliable. However, there is a fix. If you put an aftec extractor in it, all you will need to do is replace the spring in the aftec every 5k+ rounds and you will most likely need a new barrel before you touch anything else. I put them in every gun I own.

Interesting reading from a guy who knows a thing or two about 1911 and weapons in general.

From Vickers Tactical

FAQ’s with Larry Vickers

7. How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?

That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesn’t mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock.

[mikegideon]

First let me say that I agree with Larry mostly. I think most gun owners are better served with a glock.

But what Larry is really talking about is the extractor on a 1911. If a 1911 is built right, about all that can go wrong with it is that dang traditional extractor. No matter what you do, at some point you will have to address it, and though it is simple part to put in and adjust most folks simply will get frustrated and give up and call the platform unreliable. However, there is a fix. If you put an aftec extractor in it, all you will need to do is replace the spring in the aftec every 5k+ rounds and you will most likely need a new barrel before you touch anything else. I put them in every gun I own.

I guess that's why S&W modified their extractor. Do they normally break, or just wear out? I'm never gonna push as many rounds down the pipe as you do.

[timcalhoun]

Basically all they are, are tempered steel that is bent to put proper pressure on the rim of the case. So, what happens is this:

Say you need a new extractor for whatever reason. You buy a new Ed Brown or other top end extractor. Depending on how much you need to bend it will often influence how long it will run. Tempered steel has memory and will want to go back to where it was tempered. So you tweak it and after an unknown amount of rounds it will start to go back to where it was tempered changing the pressure on the case. And of course you start to have trouble.

The way we use to get around this was to tune it and then re-temper the extractor. USPSA guys that have been in the sport for 15+ plus years pretty much all did this. They would run and run when following this method. But most folks didn't and don't know about it. When the aftec came out almost everyone went to it instead. But they are three times the cost of a traditional extractor so some guys still do the tempering thing.

I guess that's why S&W modified their extractor. Do they normally break, or just wear out? I'm never gonna push as many rounds down the pipe as you do.

[Guest strelcevina]

To me 1911 looks cool. Big , powerful,, hell yeah type of hand gun.

Only problem is. I don't justify a price for it.

It is way to expensive for what it is.

For same money I bought custom made AR15 and beretta 96.

And both of those guns are more powerful. More reliable. More everything else, than 1911

[timcalhoun]

I'm actually surprised you have an AR. I thought you would be more of an AK type.

To me 1911 looks cool. Big , powerful,, hell yeah type of hand gun.

Only problem is. I don't justify a price for it.

It is way to expensive for what it is.

For same money I bought custom made AR15 and beretta 96.

And both of those guns are more powerful. More reliable. More everything else, than 1911

[Guest 10mm4me]

.

[glockster157]

Problems I have encountered over the last 30+ years with different 1911's have been bad magazines, rough feed ramps, a lot of poorly fitted or bad parts, along with failures to feed/eject which equals a lot of jams. In comparison, the number of problems of these types I have experienced with Glocks-0, Berettas-0, Sigs-0, SW 3rd Gens-0, HK USP's-0. I have not had has many SA XD's but the few I had have 100% except some with SWC lead bullets, they don't seem to like those. Still, I like 1911's, I like tinkering with 1911's, I just don't excuse 1911's. When I say 100%, I mean 100%, no excuses, no break-in, no bad mags, no bad ammo or ammo style excuses....I want my guns to work. There are more 1911's in my future. Just not sure which ones right now.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That wide body isn't any fatter than your Glock, right? My Springer single stack has been real reliable so far.

It's about the same in my hands as the G21 and 30,

just heavier.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alleycat72]

If all 1911s are unreliable, then all plastic guns explode.

[Guest drv2fst]

The one pistol match that I attended had an episode of a Glock exploding in the shooters hand. I did not think that proved that all Glocks are likely to explode.

[USMCJG]

The one pistol match that I attended had an episode of a Glock exploding in the shooters hand. I did not think that proved that all Glocks are likely to explode.

I think the point was that if all 1911's are unreliable because a few of them are, then all plastic guns explode because a few of them have.

[Guest drv2fst]

I know and I am in agreement.

[Kevo]

What reliability means to me for a 1911. Clean and lubed 1911 will fire 5 magazines rapid fire with zero malfunctions.

Handguns are poor fighting tools. ALL machines require maintenance. ALL machines break down. Plan accordingly

[Guest Oaklands]

I think the point was that if all 1911's are unreliable because a few of them are, then all plastic guns explode because a few of them have.

Both of you made an excellent point.

[JDM175]

First let me say that I agree with Larry mostly. I think most gun owners are better served with a glock.

But what Larry is really talking about is the extractor on a 1911.

The extractor while a critical part is not all he is talking about. I took a class from him earlier this year and he was constantly harping about the importance of lube especially for 1911s. I also asked him why he doesn't reccomend 1911s for most people and he stated that most people won't clean or lube them. In addition he stated that if you are going to be a 1911 shooter then you need to dedicate yourself to it and be able to do minor repairs and diagnose when you are developing a problem. It is a maintenance heavy firearm especially when compared to glock. Most people just won't do the maintenance. Hence the reason glock is reccomended it is very forgiving on maintenance and lube.

Also I think more people own glock than 1911. When asking around I run into more people that own glocks than 1911. 1911 owners tend to be more passionate but I find that more people own/shoot glock/other plastic striker fired pistols. Just my 2 cents.

[timcalhoun]

Well, I guess you need to put oil on them and If that is heavy maintenance then so be it. I routinely during the competition season shoot 2-3k in between cleanings/lube and experience zero problems. And I can point you to scores of others that do the same. If you need something more reliable and trouble free than that you have way bigger fish to fry.

Maybe he was implying about buying new over the counter 1911's. Then I would agree with him again since so many are very close but will have a slight problem that most who dabble in guns will not or cannot fix. However, if the gun is right, it is how I said, very trouble free and low maintenance.

The extractor while a critical part is not all he is talking about. I took a class from him earlier this year and he was constantly harping about the importance of lube especially for 1911s. I also asked him why he doesn't reccomend 1911s for most people and he stated that most people won't clean or lube them. In addition he stated that if you are going to be a 1911 shooter then you need to dedicate yourself to it and be able to do minor repairs and diagnose when you are developing a problem. It is a maintenance heavy firearm especially when compared to glock. Most people just won't do the maintenance. Hence the reason glock is reccomended it is very forgiving on maintenance and lube.

Also I think more people own glock than 1911. When asking around I run into more people that own glocks than 1911. 1911 owners tend to be more passionate but I find that more people own/shoot glock/other plastic striker fired pistols. Just my 2 cents.

Edited July 20, 2010 by timcalhoun

[9teeneleven]

I actually had the opposite experience with my kimber. It got worse near the end of the break-in period. starting around 300 rounds, it started to stovepipe only on the last round of Wilson combat mags. Soon it started doing it will all mags on the last round. Sent it in to Kimber. Since then I have put thousands of rounds down it without a single glitch.

[eapking]

I actually had the opposite experience with my kimber. It got worse near the end of the break-in period. starting around 300 rounds, it started to stovepipe only on the last round of Wilson combat mags. Soon it started doing it will all mags on the last round. Sent it in to Kimber. Since then I have put thousands of rounds down it without a single glitch.

Did they say what they did to it?

[9teeneleven]

Did they say what they did to it?

They enlarged the chamber slightly. It had been cut too tight. I'm not sure why that would only start showing up as the pistol broke in, but it did.