FMJ for carry in the woods???

[JReedEsq]

I was checking out ballistics101.com for some caliber comparison data. I was a little surprised to see that these guys don't recommend JHP for hiking/camping or general carry while in the backwoods. Your thoughts?

Does anyone think I'd be better off with say Winchester NATO spec 124 grain FMJ, instead of my normal carry which is XTP JHP or Gold Dot JHP?

Here's a link in case anyone is interested: http://www.ballistics101.com/camping.php

Edited July 9, 2010 by JReedEsq
added link

[Mark A]

I don't carry hollow points for fear that it will get clogged in fur. That may not be the case but it sounded good in my small mind.

Mark

[JAB]

Weren't XTPs originally designed as a hunting bullet that was later loaded in some SD loads? Aren't they supposed to give better penetration than most JHPs - with the trade-off that they don't always expand as rapidly or as well? If the hollow point cavity does become clogged with fur, what will that mean? That the round will simply behave like a FMJ?

I guess it depends on what sort of critters you think you might run into. Around the yard/woods at home, I carry my single-action Heritage loaded up with .22 Magnum (shot shell first up and the rest JHPs.) Heck, sometimes I might just have my NAA, loaded the same, and don't worry because I truly believe that a .22 Magnum will deal with anything up to the size of a raccoon or even coyote at the ranges I'd be shooting. If there were a chance of running into anything bigger/tougher and I were limited to a handgun, I'd at least want one of my .357s. Since I am assuming (with the risks inherent therein) that your concern is performance on larger critters, you might look and see if any company makes hunting-specific ammo that would work in your pistol. For instance, I picked up some Buffalo Bore ammo loaded with 180 grain, hardcast lead, flat-nosed bullets to load in my Taurus 66 for when I go trout fishing, camping, etc. (where black bear are a potential - although pretty unlikely - threat.) Truth is, even camping, etc. the greatest threat could still likely come from two-legged varmints - but I figure that those 180 grainers would deal with that kind of threat pretty well, too.

Edited July 9, 2010 by JAB

[JReedEsq]

Weren't XTPs originally designed as a hunting bullet that was later loaded in some SD loads? Aren't they supposed to give better penetration than most JHPs - with the trade-off that they don't always expand as rapidly or as well? If the hollow point cavity does become clogged with fur, what will that mean? That the round will simply behave like a FMJ?

I didn't really know the XTPs were designed as a hunting round but a brief amount of googling reveals that it is a popular round for handgun hunters and has a reputation for great penetration and 1.5 times expansion. Honestly, I tried them at first because they are so much less expensive than Gold Dots and I feel comfortable carrying something I've practiced with a bit. After looking at this:

What about Hornady XTP Handgun Ammunition

maybe I'll just stick with these for carry in the woods, buy some more Gold Dots for normal carry and keep all the FMJ for the range.

But this: XTP Marks The Spot

Seems to indicate that the XTP is good to go for about anything I might encounter.

Edited July 10, 2010 by JReedEsq

[enfield]

If I were carrying a gun in the woods for protection against big 4-legged hairy critters I'd want FMJ or hard-cast lead, preferably in a caliber that starts with a 4 or 5.

If I were carrying for hunting or defense against big 2-legged hairy critters then I'd opt for HP's or SP's.

[nightrunner]

sounds like you are talking about 9mm and I would suggest either .45acp or 10mm in an auto pistol.

but with any thing I would personally carry either FMJ or SP or a hybrid (SJSP semijacketed soft point) dont know if its best but its what I would do

[Guest HvyMtl]

Like Enfield says, depends on the "critter" threat.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Dunno nothin about it (as usual). Aren't XTP bullets one HP style that is sposed to be good for hunting furry four-legged critters? For perhaps the same reason some folks diss em for two-legged critters-- Some claim they don't expand as much as some other HP's?

XTPs are rather pointy-shaped bullets to be hollow point. Pointier-shaped than FMJ pistol bullets. Seems like they ought to have some pretty good initial penetration?

Edited July 13, 2010 by Lester Weevils

[dlm37015]

Hard to beat hard cast lead in 45 or 10 mm alto Iusually carry a 44 spl with hard cast bullets

[mdmoseley]

You need to be very careful carrying FMJ. Per TWRA you can't hunt with a military style round. Technically a FMJ round is a military round per the Genevea (SP?) Convention. Amazingly a hollow point is too inhumane. lol

Here is the link.

http://www.state.tn.us/twra/huntweapons.html

It's down under the illegal weapons. Bullet number 3.

Edited July 13, 2010 by mdmoseley
link added

[MacGyver]

I imagine the recommendation stems from the fact that some of the big four-legged stuff has a bigger trunk than the typical human. You would like to have expansion, but you have to have penetration. If you're not reaching the hydraulics of whatever you're shooting at, you may find yourself in a world of hurt. I would simply look at the area I'm going to be operating in, figure out what threats are in the area, and match up my ammo appropriately.

[JReedEsq]

sounds like you are talking about 9mm and I would suggest either .45acp or 10mm in an auto pistol.

but with any thing I would personally carry either FMJ or SP or a hybrid (SJSP semijacketed soft point) dont know if its best but its what I would do

My question was really just "if you were hiking/camping would you put fmj in your regular carry gun." I am not starting a caliber war but I just don't think a .45 would be any better than my 9mm. I might eventually get a G20SF, but until then I'll stick with a G17 with a +2 extension for 20 rounds of 9mm. 9mm may (should) penetrate better than a .45, I'll have more rounds, and most importantly it's what I shoot regularly. I told the wife that all the hiking could be an excuse to get a 10mm or a .357 revolver, but a .357 would get pretty heavy and I really think I'm better off with something I've practiced with. My thinking is that we're more likely to have problems with wild dog or other smaller animal and ballistically superiority wouldn't accomplish anything in the event I miss.

Edited July 13, 2010 by JReedEsq

[JReedEsq]

You need to be very careful carrying FMJ. Per TWRA you can't hunt with a military style round. Technically a FMJ round is a military round per the Genevea (SP?) Convention. Amazingly a hollow point is too inhumane. lol

Here is the link.

Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency - Hunting Equipment & Methods

It's down under the illegal weapons. Bullet number 3.

Thanks but I'm not hunting. I just love to be in the woods. I carry for defense of me and mine, and it surprised me a little that ballistics101.com was recommending fmj for carry regardless of caliber. I started the thread just to see if anyone agreed with them. For now I think I'll stick with XTPs for hiking since they may penetrate a little better than the Gold Dots which are the other JHP sitting in my safe. I've been dragging my two year old and my pregnant wife on long hikes nearly every weekend. I've always been an active person, and I don't see why I should sit at home just because we have a family now. We got to see 2 bears the weekend of the 4th, but we were on a popular trail so we kept moving. As I told my wife, I'm not afraid of the bears at all, it's just that I don't trust other people not to provoke them or feed them. Lately, we've been migrating to the less populated trails, so hopefully we won't run into any of the bears that expect to be fed or have developed any other bad habits from too much human interaction. I'm really not too concerned about the bears. If I were, I would carry something more than a 9mm. I am well aware, however that with a pregnant wife and a 2-year-old on my back, none of us are in any position to run away from any type of threat very quickly.

Thanks for your responses guys.

Edited July 13, 2010 by JReedEsq
Added a Thank you.

[Mark A]

Remember, you don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than your pregnant wife...

Of course, I kid.

My rationale is the same as yours. Most wild animals would rather not be around us. However, there is always that chance of a rabid or otherwise sick animal that might not be thinking of the normal rules.

Mark

[I_Like_Pie]

My question was really just "if you were hiking/camping would you put fmj in your regular carry gun."

No...I would only do that if I didn't know anything about ballistics. I see no reason, in any situation - ever, to carry FMJ in anything other than plunking guns.

The XTP bullet that you mention is the best woods bullet bar-none. The 158 grain FP XTP are some of the best .38 pistol bullets ever made....people hunt, plink, compete, and SD carry with these bullets and you won't find a single negative comment about them anywhere.

[enfield]

Happy hiking!

[Desert Rat]

I walk in the woods around my house all the time and carry a Judge Magnum with #4 shot first, third, fifth and Hordaday 225 gr FTX for second and 4th rounds. There are more snakes in the woods than questionable critters. I also carry my pocket gun.