Can you get in trouble if you forget your HCP at home?

[kb4ns]

Back in the day I usually didn't charge someone for simply forgetting their wallet, (heck, I've done the same thing as the OP), but my BS detector was on high when talking to the individual. You can sense by their reaction if they really forgot their wallet or if they were trying to hide something. I'd get full name, (with spelling), date of birth, SSN, and address, and then run them for a match on a DL. If they checked out I would warn them. But I would be fully within the law to write them too. It depends on the LEO.

Technology has helped a lot with this issue. Gone are the days of asking the dispatcher to give you the description of the person on the license in an attempt to make sure it's the right person. Now, when I run a DL (or search for one by name/dob/ssn/etc), their picture pops up right there on my computer screen.

One thing I would keep in mind - the State's computer in Nashville that we check DL's and HCP's on goes down all the freakin' time. Sometimes it'll go down for an extended period of time. I'd think your likelihood of having a bad day would go up if the officer couldn't even look up your DL / HCP to verify your status. I haven't run across that situation yet, but the demeanor and presentation of the person I stopped would have a lot to do with the outcome. As always, YMMV...

[Guest (BH)]

As always, YMMV...

Well, to be honest my mileage sucks. I'm in my mid-twenties and I look pretty normal. However, I always seem to get the guy who's having a bad day. The few times I have ever been pulled over, I get treated like the officer believes that I must have something to hide.

I don't get it honestly. On average, I wear nice button-downs and khakis or jeans. I'll admit that my car isn't the best (give me a break, I'm a young guy working towards a Nuclear Engineering degree with a wife and child to support). I've never been pulled over for anything but speeding and a rolling stop. I'm always polite and cooperative, and have been complimented for this by the officers. Yet, I'm always treated like there must be drugs or something of that sort in my car.

I am only left to believe that this must be because of my age. I understand that and guy in his mid-twenties is way more likely to have something to hide than a guy in his fifties or sixties.

From my previous experiences with traffic stops, I can only assume that I'd get the worst possible outcome. That's why I was curious if there is any law that can actually throw me under the bus in this situation.

[tnhawk]

I paid for an extra copy of my THCP and keep it tucked away in my truck. If I ever lose my wallet I have a back up with me and if I forget my wallet I have it there in my truck. Was a good use of the $17.50 ($12.50 for another copy of birth certificate and $5 for the second permit, iirc).

To obtain an additional DL it would require stating the original was lost or stolen-not a good thing to do. As DPS has provisions for obtaining an extra HCP, and it would provide DL information for the officer. That and additional copy of birth certificate would probably be worth having.

[Guest anvil]

earlier this week i got to work and noticed i didn't have my wallet. no dl/hcp so just for good measure i seperated the gun and ammo. made it back home with no trouble but i did make sure i obeyed speed limit and complete stops.

[J5684]

Not having your HCP permit on you could get you charged with intent to go armed but not to likely. For us, when we run DL's dispatch will advise us if the person has a valid gun permit. Me personally that is good enough, along with the standard "you know the rules" speech, don't let me catch ya again, yada, yada.

But if an officer is wanting to press the issue for us at least there is a number that we fax incidents to the TDOS for handgun permit violations and let TDOS handle it.

If I ask a person with a valid HCP, that is not in possession of the ID itself if there is a gun in the car or on their person and I get told no that's fine. If somehow I find that there is, I promise that I will write that person for everything I possibly can that includes filing with TDOS. I believe in common courtesy

[Fallguy]

If I ask a person with a valid HCP, that is not in possession of the ID itself if there is a gun in the car or on their person and I get told no that's fine. If somehow I find that there is, I promise that I will write that person for everything I possibly can that includes filing with TDOS. I believe in common courtesy

What if they don't want to incriminate themselves and say they'd rather not answer?

Because I agree that one should never lie to an officer, but not so sure about admitting to violating the law either, especially when it comes to a weapon.

[Pain103]

I would rather one admit they have a firearm and them not have the card on them then be lied to. I have yet to cite or arrest anyone without their permit on them and I don't plan on it. I have stopped a guy who handed me his permit and had the firearm in the glovebox. He apparently didn't notice his permit had expired just a few days before. No charges just told to get it renewed asap.

Most people hate to be lied to but I can also understand not wanting to possible get in trouble. So take your chances either way.

[Fallguy]

Most people hate to be lied to but I can also understand not wanting to possible get in trouble. So take your chances either way.

Back to my point...of not wanting to lie, but not wanting to (and actually not having to) admit you are in violation of the law.

So if the simply choose not to answer.....what next?

I know it is rare and J5684 and Pain103 y'all don't strike me as the type to do this, but there have been times when someone with their HCP (not expired) have been handled "roughly" after informing the officer they are armed even with the officer having their HCP. So I could just imagine those same one if the person did not have their HCP on them.

Just as a LEO doesn't know who they are pulling over...the citizen doesn't know what type of LEO is doing the stop......

[kb4ns]

Back to my point...of not wanting to lie, but not wanting to (and actually not having to) admit you are in violation of the law.

So if the simply choose not to answer.....what next?

I know it is rare and J5684 and Pain103 y'all don't strike me as the type to do this, but there have been times when someone with their HCP (not expired) have been handled "roughly" after informing the officer they are armed even with the officer having their HCP. So I could just imagine those same one if the person did not have their HCP on them.

Just as a LEO doesn't know who they are pulling over...the citizen doesn't know what type of LEO is doing the stop......

I understand what you're getting at here, FG. There's nothing illegal about refusing to answer questions such as that. However, I personally take it as an insult when someone does so. If I feel insulted, I'm not gonna cut ANY slack. You can forget about a warning for anything. Insurance card expired yesterday? It'll be on the ticket. Don't have your registration papers with you in the vehicle? It'll be on your ticket. Window tint is at 30%? It'll be on the ticket. Horn won't blow? It'll be on the ticket. And I'll most likely call one of the K9 units down to run the car while I'm writing the ticket.

I've never had a situation with a HCP holder like you described and don't think I ever will since most HCP holders I've dealt with are good folks, but above is how I've handled similar situations with other folks in the past. Granted, most people I've dealt with who refuse to answer questions were less than model citizens and trying to hide something anyway.

Edited July 11, 2010 by kb4ns

[Fallguy]

I understand what you're getting at here, FG. There's nothing illegal about refusing to answer questions such as that. However, I personally take it as an insult when someone does so. If I feel insulted, I'm not gonna cut ANY slack.

I get what you are saying as well...and admit many may mean not answering as an insult, however some would not. It is bad that lawful action could be used and/or taken that way. As far as not any slack...I understand as well....at least when it comes to the reason for the stop. If you were doing X...and got caught at it....well...you got caught. Until last year I hadn't been stopped in many, many years (so before having a HCP) and back then I rarely didn't get the ticket...but I didn't complain. One trooper was so professional and courteous, wanted to offer to buy lunch for him after he gave me the ticket.

[E4 No More]

I understand what you're getting at here, FG. There's nothing illegal about refusing to answer questions such as that. However, I personally take it as an insult when someone does so. If I feel insulted, I'm not gonna cut ANY slack. You can forget about a warning for anything. Insurance card expired yesterday? It'll be on the ticket. Don't have your registration papers with you in the vehicle? It'll be on your ticket. Window tint is at 30%? It'll be on the ticket. Horn won't blow? It'll be on the ticket. And I'll most likely call one of the K9 units down to run the car while I'm writing the ticket.

I've never had a situation with a HCP holder like you described and don't think I ever will since most HCP holders I've dealt with are good folks, but above is how I've handled similar situations with other folks in the past. Granted, most people I've dealt with who refuse to answer questions were less than model citizens and trying to hide something anyway.

As a former LEO I would remind you that lawyers instruct people not to talk to police: therefore, you should not take it as a personal insult.

Not to be construed to mean that I'm talking about you personally: MANY police officers have no problems lying on the witness stand, (or suffer selective memory), to win something as trivial as a traffic ticket, (yes, it's happened to me), so it's no wonder when people make no comments at all. It sucks that life is like that, but because of our society as a whole I would encourage you not to feel insulted when they don't talk.

Edited July 14, 2010 by SWJewellTN

[J5684]

If it was a normal stop nothing suspicious I doubt I'd find out. However if there was something else that led me to discover the firearm, that is when all courtesy goes out the window.

[Links2k]

I live in unincorporated Shelby County and work downtown and I always carry. I had glanced at this thread but never read it. Well after bypassing this thread because I NEVER leave home without my wallet (id/permit)....I left home without my permit. I was looking for my wallet because I was going to stop at a fast food joint on the way to work when I realized that I did not have my wallet. I exit 240 on third and have to drive thru that neighborhood by Neelys so a gun is a must for me. I am always glad that there seems to be a good police presence on this stretch of road. Not today.

When I notice that I do not have my permit I freak because I am carrying concealed with one in the chamber and I do not want to be stopped by the police. Murphy being what it is the very first cop that passes me going in the opposite direction turns on his lights and swings a u-turn behind me. Now, I start sweatting. I do not want to explain why I am carrying concealed in Memphis without a permit. This would not be good. I always get the officer having a bad day for some reason (I am not an ass...as a former MP I know to always be polite to officers).

The officer does not stop me and turns down a side street. Whew. When I get to work I remove the chambered round, magazine, slide and put them in the trunk and the frame in my car safe. I was naked (unarmed) on the way home that night and was conflicted on which would be worse driving around unarmed or getting stopped by MPD with carrying with no id.

[Guest jackdm3]

"I was naked (unarmed) on the way home that night and was conflicted on which would be worse driving around unarmed or getting stopped by MPD "

Went to Mud Island Sunday, felt completely naked and neutered, I'll tell ya! Kathy said she had that sick feeling, too. I didn't even take my small digicamera, after having been thoroughly searched at Minglewood 2 months before. That's when I learned, you gotta put it in your underwear or like I did, the lanyard looped on the top button and situated between boxers and the shorts/pants.

If I were to have carried, there would have been no problem. Unloaded the tram onto Mud Island and went to the ticket takers, right past the guards, who just smiled at everybody and waved them all through. Zero searches! I could have taken everything. But get this. "No umbrellas." That was the only requirement.

Edited July 13, 2010 by jackdm3

[Fallguy]

If it was a normal stop nothing suspicious I doubt I'd find out. However if there was something else that led me to discover the firearm, that is when all courtesy goes out the window.

I hear ya...

I have always said even if I didn't inform, I would always speak up before letting the officer find it on me and/or in the car by search etc.....