Shooting non-brass ammo out of the AR15, is that a problem?

[chunkee]

I was out shooting my new AR15 S&W MP15. A person there commented that I was shooting ****ty ammo through a nice gun, the ammo is Wolf (steel case) ammo that I bought from AimSurplus. It clean the rifle very thorough and it fired without any problems. Does the Russian, steel ammo cause problems with the rifle? Should I be using a brass bullet?

Thanks.

Everyone has an opinion, but I am new to this and want to find out what the deal is behind his comment.

JC

[Garufa]

The newer polymer coated Wolf ammo is fine, AFAIK. The older laquer coated stuff could cause a problem, in any gun.

The steel cases may be a little harder on extractors and do not expand quite as much in the chamber, leaving more residue there, but replacing an extrator is easy and cleaning is easy.

You can't beat 20 cents a round. Brass-cased stuff is going to be a minimum of 35-40 cents each. Unless you want to win a medal in something, use the Wolf (or Silver Bear), clean the chamber and enjoy. Just stay away from Brown Bear or anything laquer coated.

[midtennchip]

When I took the Defensive Carbine class through CIS, there were two guys running Wolf ammo. They had TONS of problems in the class. Although it was hard for me to gauge how much difference there was between the rest of us and those two guys, my guess is that they had at least 3 to 4 times the number of jams/failures that the rest of us had.

As stated above, it may be more of an issue with the lacquer coating and the steel casing. However, having seen the number of problems those guys had with it, I certainly would not want to trust it if the ammo is for self-defense. Maybe using it for target practice would be okay, but that's as far as I would go.

[Desert Rat]

It also depends on the weapon because some will and some are finicky about any ammo. Just have a few different weapons or borrow some from someone who shoots "Steel" to see if your gun eats it.

[Guest Plainsman]

I've never had any problems running Wolf through my Bushmaster. I understand your shooting a S&W, and they may have addressed this issue the same as Bushmaster. Bushmaster has addressed the question on their FAQs many, many times and basically you get this answer:

Question / IssueIs steel case ammo, such as that made by Wolf, O.K. to use?

Answer / SolutionMany people use the steel cased ammunition in our rifles with chrome lined chambers with no problems. The mild steel casings have not shown to produce any significant premature wear. For better results and reliability we recommend American factory .223 or NATO 5.56mm ammunition.

And...

Question / IssueDo you suggest avoiding wolf .223 steel cased ammunition or any steel cased ammo for that fact? Thank you,

Answer / SolutionMany people use the mild steel cased ammunition in our rifles with the chrome lined barrels with no ill effects such as premature wear.

As always we recommend trying a sample of the ammunition before buying in bulk to see if it will cycle alright.

Less expensive ammunition can be somewhat under loaded and may not cycle in a new rifle but after a break-in of 300 to 400 rounds it should cycle alright.

This final question/answer is the one that frightens me the most, but reading the last sentence eases my worries a little:

Question / IssueBeware the dangers of CHEAP AMMO!

Answer / SolutionIf you shoot enough cheap ammo, it'll happen to you. The rifle is just ticking along, then BAM! The bolt is stuck forward and the magazine blows down out of the rifle. Looking up into the mag. well, you see a crack in the bottom of the bolt carrier. You've just had a case head separation. If you are shooting reloads or surplus ammo, you're out of luck. If you have factory ammo, and the box the shells came in, you can write a letter or call the factory, and they will tell you what to do. We have seen case head failures from overloaded ammo, and from bad brass. There is almost no difference in the result, though. When the case head fails in an AR, the gases flow back into the action. They usually bend or break the extractor, flow along the extractor slot, and crack or break the bottom pad of the bolt carrier. The gases vent out mostly through the mag well, usually wrecking the magazine on the way out. Sometimes the bolt cracks, sometimes it doesn't. In extreme cases, it can crack or break the barrel extension. Many times the bolt catch will break off and the upper receiver will crack by the ejection port. Usually the lower will survive, but sometimes they crack somewhere at the top of the mag well, usually in the front. The front half of the case will remain stuck in the chamber. This is a sure sign of an ammunition failure. If the rifle had failed, the bolt lugs would all be sheared off, the stock would be blown off, the gun would probably be blown in half. We've never seen it happen, and we hope we never do.

[Guest bkelm18]

I ran a couple thousand rounds of Wolf and Brown Bear through my Bushmaster. Never had a problem. Granted it is some dang dirty ammo and if you're going to be shooting the crap out of it (ie. in a training class) it might lead to problems.

[Jasongar8]

I've shot 1000's of rounds of the polymer coated Wolf with no problems.

[Guest SUNTZU]

You'll be fine with Wolf. Get another extractor, even though they run about $2500 each.

[Desert Rat]

You could always buy a "Back-up" AR and only shoot the "Good Stuff" through it! Then you could shoot anything "off the shelf" through your primary and not worry about failure.

I think that was what SUNTZU was implying.

[G27]

I shoot a lot of Barnaul through my AR and have had zero issues.

[Guest SUNTZU]

You could always buy a "Back-up" AR and only shoot the "Good Stuff" through it! Then you could shoot anything "off the shelf" through your primary and not worry about failure.

I think that was what SUNTZU was implying.

No, but that would be nice! What I mean is that the mild steel case may be hard on your extractor and you'll need to replace it sooner rather than later. The sarcasm was in the price of an extractor. Buy a bag of them and call it a day.

[Auburn]

No troubles with Wolf in any of my AR's.

[Guest ls2tiger]

I shoot wolf through my S&W MP15 all the time and catch hell from the occasional "expert". I run it wet but I dont think it makes much of a difference. My Colt will get the good stuff though. It's spoiled.

[Guest benroe]

My Stag feeds anything I put through it without a problem. I often run a mix of brass and steel cased ammo and like to run it a bit "wet".

[Reservoir Dog]

No troubles with Wolf in any of my AR's.

Same here. I love Wolf and Brown Bear. Cheap fun!

[Kenstaroni]

Here's my take...

Brown Bear- Loaded slightly hotter than Wolf, a little cleaner burning, will leave laquer in chamber and likely require a good cleaning every 200 rounds or so. As long as you keep running it and don't switch to other ammo (especially brass) before cleaning it will be fine. This used to be my favorite steel ammo round, and worked great in all the DI guns, but my Ruger SR556 won't get through two mags with it before rounds start sticking, Wolf is fine, Tula won't cycle even on setting 3 due to being underpowered as stated below.

Wolf- Cheap, great for plinking, should have no trouble shooting it and wear on parts will only be noticed over quite a lot of rounds, like into the thousands. By then the money you have saved will easily pay for a new extractor. Wolf is inherently dirty. This means the gun will require more frequent cleaning, but due to the polymer coating, you won't have issues with laquer build up. I prefer Wolf Military Classic over black box.

Tula- Virtually the same as wolf (same manufacturer), but underpowered. Fine in DI guns, but piston guns will not like it. Cheaper, but less accurate and not worth the cost savings over Wolf in my opinon.

Brass ammo- Save it for SHTF or when accuracy is necessary. I do have one gun that I only shoot brass ammo through, however I run Wolf in the other and have no regrets. My philosophy is buy brass when you find a good deal on it and stick it in the gun safe. Buy steel to satisfy your .223 itch on the weekends.

Aim Surplus and Weidners have Wolf Military Classic for $199.95 a case.

All in all, if you're just plinking for fun it's fine to shoot the steel cased ammo. Just don't expect much more than 1.5 MOA. If you're shooting steel ammo, you'll spend more time cleaning the rifle, but don't have to worry about picking up the shells on the ground since you can't reload them .

People have argued this topic for years. As many people as you will find that say it's bad for the rifle (likely with no credible proof, then just jump on the bandwagon), you will find the same amount who will tell you it's fine (usually citing the thousands of rounds they have shot of steel ammo with no issues other than more frequent cleaning). Some guns might be picky, but the S&W M&P15 I had a while back ate everything above with no issues. It's one of my favorite DI AR's and I will get another some day.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Kenstaroni

[Guest coldblackwind]

I've shot wolf in my ar, with no mechanical problems. Hits about 6 inches low at 50 yards with it, and 12 at 100 yards, but no issues with the gun itself. My galil on the other hand....that doesn't like wolf one little bit.