Mk-16 SCAR Gets Abandoned by SOCOM.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Spec Ops Command Cancels New Rifle

In a surprising reversal that follows years of effort to design a one-of-a-kind commando rifle, the U.S. military's Special Operations Command has abruptly decided to abandon the new SOCOM Combat Assault rifle – the "SCAR," as the rifle is commonly known – in favor of previously-fielded carbines.

Details provided exclusively to Military.com reveal that SOCOM, the Tampa-based command that oversees the training and equipping of SEALs, Green Berets, Air Force Special Tactics Teams and Marine SOC groups, will stop purchasing the 5.56 mm Mk-16 Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle and might require all units who now have them to turn the new weapons back into the armory.

Read more about the Mk-16 SCAR cancellation in Kit Up!

"The Mk-16 does not provide enough of a performance advantage over the M-4 to justify spending USSOCOM's limited … funds when competing priorities are taken into consideration," officials at USSOCOM said in an email response to questions from Military.com. "Currently, three of USSOCOM's four components receive the 5.56 mm M-4 from their parent service as a service common equipment item." (Naval Special Warfare Command is the only component that does not purchase its weapons with Navy funds.)

SOCOM said it will instead purchase additional Mk-17 variants that use the heavier 7.62 mm round, more Mk-13 Enhanced Grenade Launchers, and a newly-designated Mk-20 Sniper Support Rifle. (Industry observers say the Mk-20 is basically the Mk-17 with longer barrel and other sharpshooter enhancements.)

News of the cancellation of the Mk-16 variant of the SCAR is a major reversal for a command that spent six years and millions of dollars fielding a rifle specifically made for use by special operators. It was the first rifle since the M-16 that was competed, tested, and built from the ground up for the military.

This cancellation will certainly be poorly received by program advocates who touted the weapon's mission flexibility, better gas piston operating system, and performance in dusty environments as clear advantages over the current M-4.

Elaine Golladay, spokeswoman for FNH-USA, the weapon's manufacturer, declined to comment on the cancellation for this report.

Ironically, the company announced May 4 that it had passed the final hurdle from SOCOM's weapons buying office to go into full production and fielding of both the Mk-16 and Mk-17. It is unclear if SOCOM had made the decision to cancel their buy of the Mk-16 when FNH-USA issued that announcement.

Additionally, sources tell Military.com that SOCOM is leaning toward requiring that all Mk-16s currently fielded be returned as retaining limited numbers of them would complicate training and logistics support.

Officials with SOCOM said the services have so far fielded 850 Mk-16s and 750 Mk-17s throughout the SOF community, but did not specify which units got what rifle. As of last count, Military.com reported Army Rangers, most SEAL teams and Naval Special Warfare Combat-Craft Crewmen had received a mix of Mk-16s and 17s.

Original program documents from SOCOM show a requirement of over 120,000 Mk-16s and nearly 40,000 Mk-17s.

It is unclear how many Mk-17 rifles SOCOM will buy. The command budgeted $3 million in fiscal 2011 to purchase SCAR variants and had an additional "unfunded requirement" of $1.6 million for SCAR.

"The Mk-17 fills the existing capability gap for a 7.62 mm rifle," officials said. "USSOCOM is in the process of determining the exact quantities of the Mk-17, Mk-13 and Mk-20 variants that will be purchased."

[Smith]

Interesting development. Looks like a lot of wasted money to not go forward with.

[Daniel]

They only killed the 5.56 version.

[Smith]

They only killed the 5.56 version.

Yeah but of the planned 160k SCARS budgeted, 120K were Mk16's. That's a major redirect of plans.

Would be interesting if they would go with the in between and adopt the 6.8! One can dream.

[Guest GT_Rat]

Sounds to me like FNH will be converting them all to Mk-17's.

[Kenstaroni]

We'll I'm keeping my SCAR....I'll gladly take the one's they are turning in off their hands if they want..lol

I can see how it may not be worth the extra money to our military who for some reason thinks we should give our boys the basics and not the best. The military is so obsessed with the M4 but they've known for a while that it's outdated and not as effective as it once was. The SCAR 17 is more appealing to them because they can engage targets at longer ranges with more destructive capability, something that is needed in Afganistan. I don't blame them for this, the .308 is a much better round than the .223, however the best of both worlds is the 6.8. Sure there are things that I would personally change about the SCAR, but they are minor, and I definately wouldn't hand mine over for an M4.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Kenstaroni

[Desert Rat]

Ken:

Have you done yours in "Florida Swamp" yet like your other one.

That is an interesting turn around. Lower price for SCAR 16s for us now.

[TNRobocop]

Actually this would possibly make the 16's MORE expensive since their costs aren't spread out among the production.

Now the 17 on the other hand, MIGHT go down a bit, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Daniel]

Sounds to me like FNH will be converting them all to Mk-17's.

You cant.

[Guest SUNTZU]

They only killed the 5.56 version.

Yeah, the title of the thread and the article I posted tells you that.

[Moped]

I've not been reading good things about the 5.56 in Afghanistan. Seems like everyone wants a 7.62. My guess is your going to see SOCOM go to that caliber of weapon exclusively.

[mikegideon]

I just had to bone up a little. So, the MK-17 is a gas operated, rotating bolt rifle in 7.62 NATO? Hmmm

[Daniel]

Yeah, the title of the thread and the article I posted tells you that.

I realize, I was just saying that all of the money wasnt lost since they are still using the platform for 7.62

[mikegideon]

I realize, I was just saying that all of the money wasnt lost since they are still using the platform for 7.62

This has budget cut written all over it. Gates has been whittling.

[Guest Danne941]

Saw one of these at the range yesterday owner was a super nice guy. I really liked it! Now if the price would come down to 2k..

[Guest GT_Rat]

You cant.

Really? I wouldn't think it would be an issue to change out the upper. Is the lower significantly different for the 17 version?

[JeffL]

Really? I wouldn't think it would be an issue to change out the upper. Is the lower significantly different for the 17 version?

Yes. A 5.56x45mm magwell will not fit a magazine for a 7.62x51mm round.

[Guest GT_Rat]

Hmm. I realize the 7.62 rounds are bigger I just thought the lowers were somewhat modular as well with accommodations for both mag sizes. Guess not.

[Guest Keinengel]

The SCAR MK16 lower isnt much diferent from an M16/M4 lower. I never handled the US issue MK16 but i've handled the civi one and was issued an M4. The M4 has always been very underwhelming to me to be honest. i was highly impressed wiht the civi version of the SCAR however.

[Mark@Sea]

The military is so obsessed with the M4 but they've known for a while that it's outdated and not as effective as it once was.

The M4 was never as effective as it once was. 5.56 is a marginal round out of a rifle barrel; the loss of velocity inherent in a carbine length barrel isn't going to improve that.

The weak points of the AR system (gas tube, direct impingement, bolt lug engagement, aluminum receiver) are going to remain weak points regardless of caliber. The strong points of the AR system (light weight, can carry more ammo) largely result from the use of .22 ammo.

A .22 battle rifle. Kind of like naming an attack sub after Jimmuh Carter.

[Desert Rat]

Daniel:

One of the items behind the platform of SCAR 16 and 17 was that a lot of the parts are interchangeable which would have reduced the required maintenance stock. The 7.62 is supposed to have 3 barrel lengths for various purposes and the 5.56 as well. As for cost if there are a bunch of 16 parts laying around FN will probably want to dispose of them rather than store them. Supply and Demand!

Look what happened to MSAR STG556 when they were moving to a new location. I am still waiting for longer barrels for that one.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Desert Rat

[Daniel]

You cant interchange: Barrels, Uppers, Lowers, or bolts. That is a lot of the weapon right there. You can probably change out triggers and pins. Good Game.

[Desert Rat]

Daniel:

Read here:

Modern Firearms - FN SCAR: Mark 16 / Mk.16 and Mark 17 / Mk.17  Special Forces Combat Assault Rifle

Excerpt:

The US Special Operations Command (US SOCOM) issued a solicitation for the procurement of SOF Combat Assault Rifles (SCAR) on October 15th, 2003. This solicitation requested a new combat rifle, specially tailored for the current and proposed future needs of the US Special Forces, which are somewhat different from latest generic US Army requirements, which are being fulfilled by the newest Heckler-Koch XM8 assault rifle. The key difference in basic requirements between XM8 and SCAR is that, while XM8 is a single-caliber weapon system, tailored for 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition, the SCAR should be available in various different calibers. Initial SOF requirements included two basic versions of SCAR system - the SCAR Light (SCAR-L), available in 5.56mm NATO, and the SCAR heavy (SCAR-H), which should be initially available in significantly more powerful 7.62x51 NATO chambering, and should be easily adaptable in the field to other chamberings. These other chamberings initially include the well-spread 7.62x39 M43 ammunition of the Soviet / Russian origins, and probably some others (like the proposed 6.8x43 Remington SPC cartridge, especially developed for US Special Forces). The key idea of SCAR rifle system is that it will provide the Special Forces operators with wide variety of options, from short-barreled 5.56mm SCAR-L CQC variation, tailored for urban close combat, and up to long range 7.62x51 SCAR-H Sniper variant, as well as 7.62x39 SCAR-H, which will accept "battlefield pickup" AK-47/AKM magazines with 7.62 M43 ammunition, available during the operations behind the enemy lines. Both SCAR-L and SCAR-H shall be initially available in three versions, Standard (S), Close Quarters Combat (CQC) and Sniper Variant (SV; now it is dubbed Long Barrel - LB). All these variants, regardless the caliber and exact configuration, will provide the operator with the same controls layout, same handling and maintenance procedures, and same optional equipment, such as sights, scopes, and other current and future attachments

[Daniel]

What is your point? you still cant mix scar-l and scar-h parts.

[Jasongar8]

They should just get HK 416's and 417's and be done with it. From what I've read, the reviews of both of these weapons have been very good.