Wife gets a ticket in Bama

[Guest stmccann]

Yes I said respect and dignity and that is what I meant. They could have pulled her from the car and handcuffed her than put her in the back of their car and left her there until they were finished. I was on the other end of the phone and heard every word they were nothing but polite and courteous. And besides she was carring a weapon in the commision of a crime. Speeding is a crime is't? Look I just know it could have been alot worse than just a ticket and I am thankful that it didn't leave any bad memories for my wife to consider not carring her weapon. It took a while to get her to carry all the time and I'm just glad this was a pleasent experience with her first LEO and her gun.

Good day -

Just re-read the original post and had a thought, based on another discussion on this site. That discussion was about carry permits, and one of the reasons given to support a permit system was that when involved with police officers, you can immediately be identified as 'one of the good guys'.

Thought #2 in that same process is that you, and your wife, me, and the majority of the folks on this board with carry permits likely agree is that we went through the hoops and ponied up the cash because being armed for personal protection was important to us. We also fight for rights to carry in places that are currently closed off to us, and peacefully notify those that post 'no guns' that we will take our business elsewhere.

Thought #3 in my convoluted line of logic is that your wife called you only after following the police officer's instructions to surrender her weapons. My guess is that at that point of the traffic stop she became uncomfortable - hence the phone call.

I know all of this is my opinion, but perhaps the policy of routinely disarming permit holders, based on officer safety, is flawed - I don't think a traffic stop of an otherwise cooperative permit holder merits disarming (she was cooperative - and informed even though it may not have been required by statute). I know the argument that any situation could turn bad, but we all like to spout statistics when confronted by anti-gunners that permit holders don't commit but a minute percentage of handgun crimes. The reason given is that I am an unknown to an officer - but that officer is an unknown to me as well. The permit authorizes possession of a firearm - as does the badge.

My biggest problem with this thought (I am a flaming liberty minded nutjob) was the concept of crime itself - I believe that a crime has a victim and is 'malum in se' - wrong or evil in itself. Speeding is 'malum prohibitum' - only wrong because it is prohibited by statute. So based on that - your wife was not guilty of 'carrying a weapon in the commission of a crime' because there was no crime - since there was no victim.

All that being said - sorry my first post came off as a bit offensive. Just part of my lack of charm I guess.

I guess I've been reading too much of Harry Browne's 'How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World' and Dr. Mary Ruwart's 'Healing Our World in an Age of Agression'. Or maybe listening to that Right Arm Of Wyoming....

In Liberty for ALL....

Sean

[mikegideon]

My biggest problem with this thought (I am a flaming liberty minded nutjob) was the concept of crime itself - I believe that a crime has a victim and is 'malum in se' - wrong or evil in itself. Speeding is 'malum prohibitum' - only wrong because it is prohibited by statute.

Speeding has claimed plenty of victims. Public safety is the reason for the statute

[Mad_Squirrell]

If I was in the officers shoes I would have disarmed and unloaded the gun before returning it as well. How many times have we seen video of officers at a traffic stop and everything go smoothly at the beginning and then erupt into a serious violent encounter towards the end of the stop . He was issuing a ticket and that alone could have been the straw that broke the camels back between civility and an insane reaction albeit probably not with the OP's wife ,but the officer doesn't know that . The act of unloading the gun puts more reaction time in favor of the officers safety . It is not personal but it is safe behavior.If I am at the range and someone I do not know wants to see my gun I have no problem that person handling my gun nor do have any reason to suspect that person has a reason to harm me ,but in the interest of safety I will completely unload the gun and hand it to them completely disabled from fire .Expecting an officer not knowing how to handle your gun is unreasonable thought .It is not rocket science to remove a magazine and clear the chamber especially a revolver .To be honest I'd have had more problem with them laying my gun down on a hard surface and scratching it if I was carrying a nickle plated sissy pistol than I would them unloading it .

The running of the serial #'s must be SOP if more than one gun is found in the car . What if the scenario was totally different and it had been one of us going to a TGO shoot somewhere and we had decided to bring every gun we own and ammunition for each . For some of us that would have been a whole trunk load. Running the #'s would be SOP I'm sure. It's all about reasonable suspicion and more than likely policy when encountering more than one gun per person/suspect.

The Officer did not violate her rights at all she Volunteered her information so she temporarily surrendered her rights to the officer to conduct his investigation .Had she not surrendered her permit and kept quiet and the officer asked to search her car and she politely refused and he did any way without a search warrant then her rights would have been violated .

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Glad to see some good LEOs out there!

Glad situation went well.

[JayC]

Yes I said respect and dignity and that is what I meant. They could have pulled her from the car and handcuffed her than put her in the back of their car and left her there until they were finished. I was on the other end of the phone and heard every word they were nothing but polite and courteous. And besides she was carring a weapon in the commision of a crime. Speeding is a crime is't? Look I just know it could have been alot worse than just a ticket and I am thankful that it didn't leave any bad memories for my wife to consider not carring her weapon. It took a while to get her to carry all the time and I'm just glad this was a pleasent experience with her first LEO and her gun.

I'm not sure about AL, but in TN regular speeding violations are Administrative violations not criminal... if they were criminal you'd have the choice for a jury trial (Since the fines are all over $50).

[JayC]

All in all running the gun to see if it is stolen is not much more of a deal than running the car to see if it is stolen, which is pretty much done automatically when you are first stopped.

The only real thing is the officer has to take possession to get the information needed to run the check.

About to head out the door, so don't have time now, but it does seem I recall reading a post where there was a court decision (not sure what level or court) that said unless the LEO had PC to think the firearm(s) were stolen there was no justification to take possession and check them.

I remember the case, my understanding it was a state court in another state...

[deerslayer]

Like many, I don't cherish the idea of unnecessary gunplay when a cop demands a weapon. If I am ever pulled over and a cop wants my gun, I think I will simply unload it before handing it to him/her. I try to follow towerclimber's method--not driving like a bat out of hell reduces the number of encounter with the cops.

[PC7]

I know all of this is my opinion, but perhaps the policy of routinely disarming permit holders, based on officer safety, is flawed - I don't think a traffic stop of an otherwise cooperative permit holder merits disarming (she was cooperative - and informed even though it may not have been required by statute). I know the argument that any situation could turn bad, but we all like to spout statistics when confronted by anti-gunners that permit holders don't commit but a minute percentage of handgun crimes. The reason given is that I am an unknown to an officer - but that officer is an unknown to me as well. The permit authorizes possession of a firearm - as does the badge.

Amen brother! I could not agree more.

What I think is lost on people is that we, the non-felon citizens, have just as much of a right to be armed as any LEO. I think we are on a slippery slope when we think it is ok for agents of the government to routinely disarm their citizens. Those that agree with this officer’s actions, do you think it was ok what LEO’s did in New Orleans after Katrina? They just disarmed for their safety, right? I think this routine disarming of our citizens by agents of the government would shock and trouble our Founding Fathers.

Further, are LEO’s trained on the manual of arms for all pistols? I doubt so, and as such I believe it is a hazard to both the LEO and myself if the LEO handles and unloads an unknown weapon.

[Guest bkelm18]

Amen brother! I could not agree more.

What I think is lost on people is that we, the non-felon citizens, have just as much of a right to be armed as any LEO. I think we are on a slippery slope when we think it is ok for agents of the government to routinely disarm their citizens. Those that agree with this officer’s actions, do you think it was ok what LEO’s did in New Orleans after Katrina? They just disarmed for their safety, right? I think this routine disarming of our citizens by agents of the government would shock and trouble our Founding Fathers.

Further, are LEO’s trained on the manual of arms for all pistols? I doubt so, and as such I believe it is a hazard to both the LEO and myself if the LEO handles and unloads an unknown weapon.

There is a WORLD of difference between a traffic cop temporarily disarming you for the duration of the stop in the interests of their safety, and the mass confiscation of firearms following a natural disaster.

[The Scullinator]

You haven't been to Va Beach have ya?

lol no why? (sorry for the delay)

[jimic]

My CCW is seperate from my driver license. I dont give anything to the LEO untill asked. I have never been asked. No problem.

Some time more information is not better.

I am not sure they want to know.

[Guest bkelm18]

My CCW is seperate from my driver license. I dont give anything to the LEO untill asked. I have never been asked. No problem.

Some time more information is not better.

I am not sure they want to know.

How is it different from your driver's license?

[gotigers]

Why ask for the weapons? I dont think that is cool or needed. She has a permit. I dont unerstand the need to take the weapons.

[Fallguy]

How is it different from your driver's license?

I generally don't hand over my DL till they ask for it either.

It's been a while, but I really don't do or say anything until they ask me to do it, or speak to me first.