Wife gets a ticket in Bama

[Guest hoss6175]

Never posted a thread before so I apologize if this is not the proper forum please forgive.

My wife was on her way home from taking care of 2 of our grandchildren who live in Ft. Walton Beach Fl. They both had had minor surgery and Daughter had to work so there goes Grandma to do her job. Sorry let me get to the point. She was on her way home and was stopped by a Butler County LEO for speeding. When the LEO approached the car she gave him her Drivers License and her CCW permit. He ask her where her gun was and she told him in the console which she had put there before LEO was out of his car. He ask for the weapon and she gave him 1 of them a 380 and he laid it on the top of the car and told her he would leave it there until they were finished. He proceeded to tell her what he was doing when she said I'm not finished yet and handed him her 45. At that time he looked at her grabbed both guns told her he had to run the serial numbers and went back to his car. She picks up her phone calls me and is telling me whats going on puts the phone on speaker and now i hear everything. In the mean time a second LEO pulls up gets out of his car walks to the window of my wife's car ask her if she's afraid she's going to be abducted or something and she tells him no that her husband just wants her to be safe he says he don't blame me and walks back to his partner's car. After a few minutes the 1st LEO came back to the car on the passenger side tapped on the window my wife unlocked the door he opened it than opened the glove box put both unloaded weapons in there along with ammo and magazines. He told her he appreciated her being upfront and honest with him about the weapons that once he and his partner left she was free to load the weapons back. He gave her a ticket for speeding and they were on there way. She loaded her 45 back and headed home with no other delay. The reason I'm writing this is that I was on the phone with her through most of this and I wanted say that in my encounter with most LEO's if you're up front with them even the one's in another state they are just doing their jobs. If there are any Alabama LEO's out there reading this forum I want to Thank you for treating my wife with respect and dignity.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Daniel

[LagerHead]

That's been my experience. I will continue to show my HCP.

[Guest db99wj]

It's amazing how give and take, mutual respect and politeness goes a long way. While I prefer no transfer of the handgun between people, and the unloading, it might have very well been policy, or prior experience that is coming into play.

Glad she was carrying, wish my wife would, hate that she got a ticket. This story would be roll on the floor funny, is she pulled out ANOTHER one!

[peejman]

Some might argue that "running the serial numbers" is a 4th amendment violation, though it's probably SOP.

And I'll agree that (when dealing with LEO ), honesty is the best policy.

[Guest db99wj]

She voluntarily, when asked, admitted she had handguns on her, and handed them to the officer, so that wouldn't be a search and seizure violation due to her volunteering the information and the volunteering the handguns. Running of serial numbers, would that be, or could that be?

[peejman]

Some might argue that unless he had "probable cause" to suspect that the pistols were stolen, he had no reason to verify it. If his only intent was to make sure they were safe during their interaction, all he had to do was unload them and place them out of reach. I know that's a bit , but to the letter of the law... I've noticed some people who open carry then get annoyed when they get harassed about it tend to think that way.

Personally, I know none of my guns are stolen so I wouldn't have cared.

[Guest db99wj]

Some might argue that unless he had "probable cause" to suspect that the pistols were stolen, he had no reason to verify it. If his only intent was to make sure they were safe during their interaction, all he had to do was unload them and place them out of reach. I know that's a bit , but to the letter of the law... I've noticed some people who open carry then get annoyed when they get harassed about it tend to think that way.

Personally, I know none of my guns are stolen so I wouldn't have cared.

I see. Seems like the staunch proponents of open carry get annoyed over a lot of things.........JUST KIDDING!!!

Never would have thought that could be a violation, they run your tags and look at registration to see if the car is not stolen during their info gathering process, that's fine, never thought a handgun would be considered or interpreted differently. Just based on my limited non lawyer self, I would say it would be perfectly legal to check them, as long as they have PC. They have the authority to ask about weapons, once you admit you do, PC to check them would be granted. As I said, this is my thinking, but I'm not a lawyer and I slept at home last night.

[The Scullinator]

It's amazing how give and take, mutual respect and politeness goes a long way. While I prefer no transfer of the handgun between people, and the unloading, it might have very well been policy, or prior experience that is coming into play.

Glad she was carrying, wish my wife would, hate that she got a ticket. This story would be roll on the floor funny, is she pulled out ANOTHER one!

+1 db99wj

I have a heavy foot and I don't like to wear my seat-belt . I have been pulled over more than my share (no probably as much as I should have ) and have always had the policy of showing nothing but a humble respect for the officer:angel:. I have heard horror stories about how big of an a-hole officers have been to others. I have NEVER had this experience. Makes you wonder who the real a-hole was... Sorry to the exceptions.

[Armed Aviator]

+1 db99wj

I have a heavy foot and I don't like to wear my seat-belt . I have been pulled over more than my share (no probably as much as I should have ) and have always had the policy of showing nothing but a humble respect for the officer:angel:. I have heard horror stories about how big of an a-hole officers have been to others. I have NEVER had this experience. Makes you wonder who the real a-hole was... Sorry to the exceptions.

You haven't been to Va Beach have ya?

[JayC]

She voluntarily, when asked, admitted she had handguns on her, and handed them to the officer, so that wouldn't be a search and seizure violation due to her volunteering the information and the volunteering the handguns. Running of serial numbers, would that be, or could that be?

Sorry but if you're pulled over on the side of the road, and the officer asks you to give him the firearms... it's not voluntary at that point... And the down side is that the serial numbers get tied to her name and placed in a nation wide database that does not have the same protections on it as form 4473's do.

[Guest db99wj]

Sorry but if you're pulled over on the side of the road, and the officer asks you to give him the firearms... it's not voluntary at that point... And the down side is that the serial numbers get tied to her name and placed in a nation wide database that does not have the same protections on it as form 4473's do.

It was said she voluntarily showed her permit, she voluntarily told him where the her guns were (she did this twice), so yes, she voluntarily did. He asked for the first one, she complied, she then voluntarily gave him the other one. So I guess you could argue that the part where he asked for them, was not "voluntary" but why?

Once you have informed that you have a permit and one on you, I would imagine most policies allow the officer, by right, to take the weapon until the situation is in fact cleared, finished, otherwise resolved.

So you are saying this is a governmental conspiracy to record and build a nationwide "registry" of some sort? If this is not what you are saying, I apologize, but I'm not sure if I follow you.

[JayC]

I suspect if she had refused to give the firearms to the officer he would have viewed that as violating a lawful order. I suspect the outcome would have been the exact same whether she refused to hand them over or not. I'm not saying this was a 4th amendment violation, just that when you're stopped on the side of the road and an officer asks for your firearms, it's likely that it's not a request.

I'm saying that unlike access to form 4473's (which is fairly restrictive), data retained for serial number checks does not have any of those same safe guards. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy... But the result of many departments having a SOP to run the serial number of all firearms they come in contact with, would allow somebody to build a pretty darn good national "registry" in short order. (As in a good number of folks on this forum could build it with access given to your average police dispatcher)

I'll chalk it up to the unforeseen results of good intentions... but the result is, it creates a gun registry which has virtually no safe guards on it.

It was said she voluntarily showed her permit, she voluntarily told him where the her guns were (she did this twice), so yes, she voluntarily did. He asked for the first one, she complied, she then voluntarily gave him the other one. So I guess you could argue that the part where he asked for them, was not "voluntary" but why?

Once you have informed that you have a permit and one on you, I would imagine most policies allow the officer, by right, to take the weapon until the situation is in fact cleared, finished, otherwise resolved.

So you are saying this is a governmental conspiracy to record and build a nationwide "registry" of some sort? If this is not what you are saying, I apologize, but I'm not sure if I follow you.

[Mike.357]

wow,

i kept waiting for it to degrade into a cop bashing story.

My only fault with the trooper would be for not letting her go with a warning. Well pulling the bullets out of the mags is a little over the top, but certainly not a deal breaker.

Congrats to her for doing everything right.

ps: he probably never ran anything, just unloaded them, wrote the ticket and finished up.

[Guest db99wj]

wow,

i kept waiting for it to degrade into a cop bashing story.

My only fault with the trooper would be for not letting her go with a warning. Well pulling the bullets out of the mags is a little over the top, but certainly not a deal breaker.

Congrats to her for doing everything right.

ps: he probably never ran anything, just unloaded them, wrote the ticket and finished up.

I was thinking along the same line, possibly to see what reaction she had. When people are up to know good, it is fairly obvious.

[PC7]

Why did he unload the pistols? If she wanted to shoot the LEO, it seems she would have done it when he first walked up. This whole unloading just doen't make sense to me.

This case makes me think twice about informing LEO's when pulled over. I don't want someone whom I don't know and who likely doesn't know my weapon handling it.

Edited June 25, 2010 by PC7

[Guest Knightsr25]

Why did he unload the pistols? If she wanted to shoot the LEO, it seems she would have done it when he first walked up. This whole unloading just doen't make sense to me.

This case makes me think twice about informing LEO's when pulled over. I don't want someone whom I don't know and who likely doesn't know my weapon handling it.

Hey,Whats a few scratches on a $3000 1911. Arent you more interested in safety ? lol

[Guest hoss6175]

The LEO was not going to run any serial #'s through until she produced the 2nd weapon. He had placed the first one on the top of her car and told her he would leave it there until they were finished. Then she told him she had another weapon and gave it up also thats when he took both weapons back to his car to run the #'s

[Mike.357]

This case makes me think twice about informing LEO's when pulled over. I don't want someone whom I don't know and who likely doesn't know my weapon handling it.

right, its not like the cop is not going to find out about your permit

when he runs your DL.

[Pain103]

Running a serial number for any type of property doesn't use or require a name or any personal identification information. So the nonsense about running a number creates a gun registry is insane. Running the serial numbers on any property where you have a legal reason to be is good as long as your not committing an unreasonable search to locate the number without a warrant.

Glad to hear it was a pleasant encounter though besides having the ticket.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Pain103

[Guest stmccann]

He gave her a ticket for speeding and they were on there way. She loaded her 45 back and headed home with no other delay. The reason I'm writing this is that I was on the phone with her through most of this and I wanted say that in my encounter with most LEO's if you're up front with them even the one's in another state they are just doing their jobs. If there are any Alabama LEO's out there reading this forum I want to Thank you for treating my wife with respect and dignity.

Disarmed and ticketed? Respect and dignity?

Sorry, I disagree with governments using police officers for revenue generation. I agree with the poster that indicated a warning would be sufficient.

No victim - No crime.

In Liberty -

Sean

[Guest hoss6175]

Yes I said respect and dignity and that is what I meant. They could have pulled her from the car and handcuffed her than put her in the back of their car and left her there until they were finished. I was on the other end of the phone and heard every word they were nothing but polite and courteous. And besides she was carring a weapon in the commision of a crime. Speeding is a crime is't? Look I just know it could have been alot worse than just a ticket and I am thankful that it didn't leave any bad memories for my wife to consider not carring her weapon. It took a while to get her to carry all the time and I'm just glad this was a pleasent experience with her first LEO and her gun.

[towerclimber37]

Why did he unload the pistols? If she wanted to shoot the LEO, it seems she would have done it when he first walked up. This whole unloading just doen't make sense to me.

This case makes me think twice about informing LEO's when pulled over. I don't want someone whom I don't know and who likely doesn't know my weapon handling it.

Look. I was once of the same mind. I didn't want an officer TOUCHING my pistol.

Then I thought about it.

This is a guy or a girl who are doing a job for around 35-50,000 dollars a year. they don't know you from Adam's house cat. The thing they want to do is get their jobs done....

without .

getting .

shot.

If they unload your pistol I'm fairly sure that they're not out to get you. they just want to minimize their danger. If that's what makes them comfortable, I'm good with that.

The alternative is having a jumpy person who IS armed, escalate a situation.

so you don't want a cop Fingering your pistol? would you rather get body slammed and put into handcuffs until the ticket is written? If you don't want a law enforcement officer disarming you, don't give him or her a reason to interact with you at all.

that being said, I am guilty of being pulled over (in Texas...did you know that in Texas, if you travel further than 2 counties from home you can carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle without a carry permit? I had mine on the seat when I got pulled over. The DPS trooper was pretty nice about it. Later on I ended up buying a pistol from him) and I have to say that the officer was courteous.

If you give it, you get it.

trouble and courtesy are no different.

[Fallguy]

Look. I was once of the same mind. I didn't want an officer TOUCHING my pistol.

Then I thought about it.

This is a guy or a girl who are doing a job for around 35-50,000 dollars a year. they don't know you from Adam's house cat. The thing they want to do is get their jobs done....

without .

getting .

shot.

If they unload your pistol I'm fairly sure that they're not out to get you. they just want to minimize their danger. If that's what makes them comfortable, I'm good with that.

The alternative is having a jumpy person who IS armed, escalate a situation.

so you don't want a cop Fingering your pistol? would you rather get body slammed and put into handcuffs until the ticket is written? If you don't want a law enforcement officer disarming you, don't give him or her a reason to interact with you at all.

that being said, I am guilty of being pulled over (in Texas...did you know that in Texas, if you travel further than 2 counties from home you can carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle without a carry permit? I had mine on the seat when I got pulled over. The DPS trooper was pretty nice about it. Later on I ended up buying a pistol from him) and I have to say that the officer was courteous.

If you give it, you get it.

trouble and courtesy are no different.

I understand what you are saying...and don't necessarily totally disagree with it....but......

But being a LEO by it's very nature is a dangerous job. You can not eliminate all risk from it. Reducing the risk is fine and long it isn't at the expense of others. (Not say disarming etc... is or isn't) I'm mean the risk of firefighters could be reduced if people were not allowed to have flammable materials, but that's not going to happen. You must accept some danger by the nature of the job.

Of course it would be best if you never gave LE a reason to interact with you....but it's going to happen if you drive. But just like all LEOs don't want to be judged by the bad actions a few, there is no reason and armed citizen should be automatically deemed a threat that requires being put on the ground and cuffed just because the didn't make the officer aware of their armed status.

That being said, sounds like this was an overall pleasant (as much as getting a ticket can be) experience and all went well.

Also totally agree that respect and being courteous is a two-way street....or at least should be.

[K191145]

Some might argue that unless he had "probable cause" to suspect that the pistols were stolen, he had no reason to verify it. If his only intent was to make sure they were safe during their interaction, all he had to do was unload them and place them out of reach. I know that's a bit , but to the letter of the law... I've noticed some people who open carry then get annoyed when they get harassed about it tend to think that way.

Personally, I know none of my guns are stolen so I wouldn't have cared.

I have a copy of the sales reciept in my wallet of whatever handgun I'm carrying at the time. Don't know if that would satisfy them enough not to run serial numbers.

[Fallguy]

All in all running the gun to see if it is stolen is not much more of a deal than running the car to see if it is stolen, which is pretty much done automatically when you are first stopped.

The only real thing is the officer has to take possession to get the information needed to run the check.

About to head out the door, so don't have time now, but it does seem I recall reading a post where there was a court decision (not sure what level or court) that said unless the LEO had PC to think the firearm(s) were stolen there was no justification to take possession and check them.