Need help reloading .380

[Guest CajunKen]

I am fairly new to reloading and have done only .38 Spl. I want to reload some .380, but I'm having problems with the bullet seating and crimping. I would appreciate some FTF help from someone in the Clarksville area that is experienced in reloading .380. I live in Woodlawn.

[DWARREN123]

I have in the past reloaded .380 ACP rounds. Don't know if I can be of help but am willing to try.

Don Warren

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I only wanted a little practice ammo for a few rounds per session with an NAA Guardian .380, and got Dillon Square Deal B .380 dies and 500 XTP 90 gr bullets.

There is probably nothing basically wrong with the Dillon crimp die, but have not been happy with getting the bullet sufficiently tight in the cartridge regardless of where I set the crimp die. Even cranked down all the way, the bullets seem too loose to resist offset if the round gets banged on the front too much by a rough-action tiny gun. They are not falling-out loose, but can be pretty easily pushed down into the case with good finger pressure. Because the load is so light, it is doubtful an overpressure hazard, but am not real happy with them. Haven't had that problem with .357 or 9mm loading.

It may be that the XTP 90 gr bullets are too 'slick' or maybe too hard for the crimp to grab them good. Or maybe the tiny bullets are just too short for the case to get a good grip on em. Dunno. The .380 brass seems real thin compared to bigger pistol brass.

[Hershmeister]

you may try a different powder which has a greater volume too. Most fo the 380 loads are tiny - I've been using Accurate #5 for my LCP and Sig238 with good results- the load data calls for a mid 4 grain load, which at least fills up some of the case!

[leroy]

Dear Ken:______________

Been loading some of these little rascals with 95 grain Hornady HP's myself. Make sure you size the cases before you try to reload them. I always resize any pistol cases, even if they are new and unfired. That brings them to the right diameter before you start. I always bevel the case id with my little beveling tool too. Makes the bullet slide in without using too much case mouth flaring (... I generally never flare a straight wall pistol case anyway...). After charging the powder and seating the bullets on these little jewels; I use my crimp die to finish the job. To crimp with a taper crimp die; run the ram all the way to the top of its stroke and then screw the taper crimp die down until it just touches the top of the case. Then go in about 1/6 turn increments screwing the die down and checking the diameter of the case at the top. When you get .002 (...two thousands...) crimp; lock the crimp die down and do the rest of your batch of reloads. I always check every 10 or so reloads to see that the die hasn’t loosened off. This should give you plenty of neck tension on the case. You can load a few reloads, then take one and CAREFULLY push the bullet nose against a good solid surface like the leg of your reloading bench. If the bullet stays put and doesn’t slide back into the case; you have got it. If it does; repost what is going on after you measure all the components with your caliper.

PS: I use dillon dies too. Been using starline brass.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Guest Lester Weevils]

you may try a different powder which has a greater volume too. Most fo the 380 loads are tiny - I've been using Accurate #5 for my LCP and Sig238 with good results- the load data calls for a mid 4 grain load, which at least fills up some of the case!

Thanks Hershmeister. Sounds like a good idea.

Been using 3.2 gr W231, which fills only about half the space under the bullet. Will look to see if there is any other powder in stock that would have bigger volume for a light load.

Dear Ken:______________

Been loading some of these little rascals with 95 grain Hornady HP's myself. Make sure you size the cases before you try to reload them. I always resize any pistol cases, even if they are new and unfired. That brings them to the right diameter before you start. I always bevel the case id with my little beveling tool too. Makes the bullet slide in without using too much case mouth flaring (... I generally never flare a straight wall pistol case anyway...). After charging the powder and seating the bullets on these little jewels; I use my crimp die to finish the job. To crimp with a taper crimp die; run the ram all the way to the top of its stroke and then screw the taper crimp die down until it just touches the top of the case. Then go in about 1/6 turn increments screwing the die down and checking the diameter of the case at the top. When you get .002 (...two thousands...) crimp; lock the crimp die down and do the rest of your batch of reloads. I always check every 10 or so reloads to see that the die hasn’t loosened off. This should give you plenty of neck tension on the case. You can load a few reloads, then take one and CAREFULLY push the bullet nose against a good solid surface like the leg of your reloading bench. If the bullet stays put and doesn’t slide back into the case; you have got it. If it does; repost what is going on after you measure all the components with your caliper.

PS: I use dillon dies too. Been using starline brass.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Leroy

Hi Leroy

Have been full-length resizing and barely used any flare on the last batch. Can't see the flare and can barely feel it. The loaded rounds fit the case gage perfect. Been using once-fired brass saved up from previous shooting.

Last batch, tried seating the bullet pretty high and doing a wide crimp. Then take the loaded too-long rounds and push the bullets down into the crimp for proper OAL, pushing each round against the edge of the bench. That gets em pretty tight into the crimp, but not quite.

I don't recall using micrometer on the 90 gr XTP bullets but maybe did that. The XTP's are usually just about perfect in size and weight (from previous .357 and 9mm experience) so maybe I just assumed the 90 gr XTP's are right-on. I bet they will measure spot-on though.

Maybe it would help to rough the bottom circumference of the bullets with emery cloth? Dunno. Might provide more friction against the case.

It is puzzling.

[leroy]

Lester:_____________

Do you recon that the sizer die may be on the high side of the tolerance for the 380 and just isnt sizing the cases small enough? My die works perfectly. Just ran downstairs and miked 4 or 5 resized cases. Caliper readings were .348 to .350 on the id and .368 to .370 on the od. They are new starline cases sized in dillon dies. Dont be afraid to crank the taper crimp on down to get the .002 squeeze at the very top of the round. I always mike the od without a crimp there; then crank the die down to get a .002 crimp.

RE: The idea of "roughing up the bullet". I would be tempted to thin down some shellac to about water consistency (...use a volitle old timey shellac...), coat the lower sides of the bullet, let it set until it gets tacky, then seat the bullets and see if that helps. I have heard tales of the old timey military rifle ammo being loaded with asphaltum coated bullets in the case mouth to seal the rounds for waterproofing.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Guest Schulzie]

That's alot of good information there. I've reloaded for a few years, 40S&W, 45ACP, 38/357. Now I've got a 380 that need some rounds. I've only used Lee dies, but they have always worked well, so I'll probably get them again for the 380. For some more 380 specific loading info, you might want to check elsiepeaforum.com. It's all about the LCP, and they have alot of reloading information.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Lester:_____________

Do you recon that the sizer die may be on the high side of the tolerance for the 380 and just isnt sizing the cases small enough? My die works perfectly. Just ran downstairs and miked 4 or 5 resized cases. Caliper readings were .348 to .350 on the id and .368 to .370 on the od. They are new starline cases sized in dillon dies. Dont be afraid to crank the taper crimp on down to get the .002 squeeze at the very top of the round. I always mike the od without a crimp there; then crank the die down to get a .002 crimp.

RE: The idea of "roughing up the bullet". I would be tempted to thin down some shellac to about water consistency (...use a volitle old timey shellac...), coat the lower sides of the bullet, let it set until it gets tacky, then seat the bullets and see if that helps. I have heard tales of the old timey military rifle ammo being loaded with asphaltum coated bullets in the case mouth to seal the rounds for waterproofing.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Leroy

Thanks Leroy

Yesterday I test fired some of the .380 prepared as described previously (bullet seated long, wide crimp, push bullet in to OAL) and they seemed to work fine. So it doesn't look like a critical problem just for a little practice ammo.

Maybe the crimp die really is a little too big. That would handily explain everything.

OK, here is something interesting, but not completely conclusive-- I measure these 90 gr XTP bullets at .354 diameter rather than the published .355.

For a quality check, I test-measured some 158 gr XTP bullets that are published to be .357, and my measurement is exactly .357.

So I MAY be accurately measuring that the 90 gr XTP bullets are a little smaller than spec.

One time a Mech Engineering prof told me that accurate measurement is a fine skill. He said that he was middlin good at measuring, but expert machinists in the dept can measure much more accurately than himself.

Since I don't have the finest tools, and no skill at all, I take my measurements with a grain of salt. But I made the bullet measurements with an old USA-made vernier micrometer that seems easier to get a correct result compared to cheap digital calipers. So it may be that these XTP 90 gr bullets really are a little bit too small.

[leroy]

Lester:____________

Got interested in your measurements:

...OK, here is something interesting, but not completely conclusive-- I measure these 90 gr XTP bullets at .354 diameter rather than the published .355.

For a quality check, I test-measured some 158 gr XTP bullets that are published to be .357, and my measurement is exactly .357.

So I MAY be accurately measuring that the 90 gr XTP bullets are a little smaller than spec. ...

I believe you could be on to something with the "small" bullet thing with the 90 grain XTP's. I "tootled" downstairs and did some careful measuring with an old .0000 (...ten thousands ...) reading micrometer on a new box of Hornady XTP 90 grainers i had at home (lot # 2090052). Measured five bullets at random. Results follow:

• 0.3547
  
• 0.3545
  
• 0.3547
  
• 0.3546
  
• 0.3546
  

Also checked another couple of bullets to get a feel for the mike readings. A couple of nosler 223 - 55 grain spire points read 0.2240 -- dead on spec. A sierra 375 - 300 grain soft point read 0.3750 -- dead on spec too. After miking the bullets, I took a good close look at my dial caliper and zeroed the dial carefully. Readings on all the 90 grain XTP's looked like 0.354 and a "fuzz" -- looks just like your readings.

It could be that the tolerances are stacking up (....small end of tolerance on bullets, thin brass, upper end on diameter on sizing die, etc. ...) to make the bullets a little bit "loose" in the brass when seated. I would crank down on the crimp die and get the 0.002 crimp on them little buggers if ya can.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks, Leroy

The lot number of my 90 gr XTP's is 2080604.

Am gonna set up for loading some 9mm's soon, and will try to get a decent measurement of the .380 crimp die when I take it out. Dillon supposedly has wonderful customer service, but haven't ever had to call em for anything yet. I guess great overall quality is even better than great customer service.

Maybe will call em and see if they have a tighter crimp die. Even cranking this die all the way down so it makes an 1/8" shiny band on the top of the cartridge, it doesn't grab these XTP's tight enough. But it gets close to tight enough loading long then pushing in the bullets to length into that wide crimp.

When adjusting the last time, I kept cranking in the die, making test rounds and checking the bullet tightness, until the crimp die was bottomed out, and there wasn't any position in the entire adjustment range that would grab the bullet real tight.

Had mostly been loading 9mm light target loads with 124 gr Rainier JHP copper-plated bullets. Those were inexpensive and seemed consistent on weight and size. But in 2009 those Rainier's just got out of stock everywhere, so I bought a bunch of 124 gr XTP JHP that am just now getting around to loading. Haven't measured the 124 gr XTP's yet. I hope they are 'right on the money' like my .357 XTP's. Hope all those 9mm XTP's ain't gonna have the same problem as the .380 XTP's.

[leroy]

Lester:____________

Glad to help a little bit. I would call Dillon and tell them what is going on. I bet they will want to know what bullet and brass you are using. I have had great service out of Dillon. I buy all my dies from them. They are old machinists and really know what is going on mechanically.

RE: The 124 grain Hornady XTP's. I dont have any experience. I have loaded the 125s (...the ones for 357 sig...) with no problems. Crimp good and tight using the taper crimp die (...again, a Dillon...). Good luck with the 9 mm. Let us know how things work out with Dillon on the 380 stuff.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Lester:____________

Glad to help a little bit. I would call Dillon and tell them what is going on. I bet they will want to know what bullet and brass you are using. I have had great service out of Dillon. I buy all my dies from them. They are old machinists and really know what is going on mechanically.

RE: The 124 grain Hornady XTP's. I dont have any experience. I have loaded the 125s (...the ones for 357 sig...) with no problems. Crimp good and tight using the taper crimp die (...again, a Dillon...). Good luck with the 9 mm. Let us know how things work out with Dillon on the 380 stuff.

Hi Leroy

Finally got around to setting up 9mm again. My old micrometer measures the XTP HP 124 gr bullets at exactly .355 and they fit tight in the cases. They fit tight enough that a crimp would likely be redundant. If I take a round out after the seating die, before the crimp die, it is so tight that finger pressure can't push the bullet shorter into the case. But am doing a light crimp anyway, of course.

The Hornady recommended OAL for the XTP 124 gr bullets is pretty short-- 1.06". Have some 9mm Hornady factory-loaded XTP HP defense rounds for monkey-see-monkey-do, and those are at 1.06" also.

Had been using W231 for 9mm practice ammo. A few years ago W231 was highly recommended for 9mm, but web-searching, nowadays seemingly not so much. Wanted to make these fairly hot, because the earlier 4.3 gr behind a Rainier 124 gr HP is occasionally stovepiping a new 92FS, though the old 92FS fed those fine. I think the spring is stiffer on the new one.

Have some Ramshot Sillhouette haven't tried yet until now. Silhouette is supposed to be very similar to WAP, and both well-recommended from some web references for fairly hot 124 gr 9mm loads. Found a Hornady reference for WAP to a max of 5.6 on a 1.06" OAL XTP 124 gr HP. The Ramshot data recommends the same max 5.6 gr Silhouette, except Ramshot lists a 1.169 OAL. Kinda long for the XTP shape.

So anyway, loaded up 100 test rounds splitting the diff between min and max Ramshot spec-- 5.3 gr. Using the shorter Hornady 1.06 OAL (which they use in their own defense ammo). The Silhouette/WAP burns slower than W231. Maybe they won't over pressure <g>.