Long term survival

[Raoul]

Most of the threads about SHTF scenarios discuss bugout bags, weapons, and food stores. Lately I've been thinking about long term survival. I've run across several sites that discuss long term storage of seeds and the general consensus is to freeze them.

Does anyone have any experience in freezing seed? If so how successful is it?

What do you folks think about this?

[Ebow1]

I know the government has already done it. Big bunker somewhere in Antarctica with dozens of samples of agricultural seeds. I really hope they left instructions in case the person who finds it is a moron.

[Links2k]

Who wants to survive long term without cable and computers while living on the land? I've gotten old and soft. I saw that show also about how the world govts have stored all of those seeds in the mountains.

[Guest goomba]

Who wants to survive long term without cable and computers while living on the land? .

we gotta make sure some of the geeks survive

[Guest Lester Weevils]

we gotta make sure some of the geeks survive

Freeze-dried Geeks. Just add water!

[creeky]

Freeze-dried Geeks. Just add water!

Make that "just add internet"... Hahahaha!!!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Does anyone have any experience in freezing seed? If so how successful is it?

Raoul, I've been 'off-and-on' about storing food a long time. The main issue I've had is that I don't find long-term-storable food convenient or tasty enough to eat, so eventually after 5 or 10 years the stuff passes its use-by date and ends up discardable. You have to be pretty hard-core to actually routinely eat that stuff in a non-emergency.

First time I stored food was back in the 1970's. Was reading Whole Earth Catalog articles about food security, which had links to Mormon companies that make storable food, as it is almost a part of the religion (from early Utah days when the folks had a hard time with food).

There was this Utah company that sold various food stored in 5 pound cans in a nitrogen atmosphere. Some moderately-tasty freeze-dried stuff, but if you wanted to feed a family of four for a year and be able to store it all in a closet, the bulk of the calories was in big cans of macaroni, beans, and whole red wheat kernels.

The red wheat kernels were plantable, and IIRC the fertile storage was either 2 years or 5 years. Can't recall.

They sold a book on what to do with all the stuff. You at least would buy a wheat grinder with the food.

Grind the wheat coarse for cereal-equivalents. Grind the wheat fine for flour and bake lots of bread. They figured each person would eat a loaf or two of bread per day for subsistence calories. Process the flour in water to make gluten for more concentrated protein. Fold a layer of wheat kernels in a wet towel and sprout them for greens and certain B vitamins. The book said that the green wheat sprouts contain vitamins you would otherwise be deficient in, just eating bread, cereal, and gluten.

I bet that book is still for sale somewhere from some Utah company. Mine is probably around here somewhere, but unlikely I could find my copy.

Another factor in a real famine, for my suburban location-- If people all around are starving, how ya gonna bake all that bread, in addition to the beans and macaroni and freeze-dried greens and cheeze sauce, without folks smelling the food for blocks around?

[Guest strelcevina]

long term food storage is just human paranoia..and it could bring you in more danger in case of SHTF.

just imagine hungry pople finding out that you have food.

i been in few emergencies in my life, and got to tell you from my experience 48hour or 72 hour BOB bail out bag make more sense.

just recently wen we had a flood

i wished i had little alcohol stove and hand water filter pump.

i used a little BBQ in my fireplace:) it worked but just to make coffee in the morning was just to much hassle

[Guest SUNTZU]

long term food storage is just human paranoia..and it could bring you in more danger in case of SHTF.

just imagine hungry pople finding out that you have food.

i been in few emergencies in my life, and got to tell you from my experience 48hour or 72 hour BOB bail out bag make more sense.

just recently wen we had a flood

i wished i had little alcohol stove and hand water filter pump.

i used a little BBQ in my fireplace:) it worked but just to make coffee in the morning was just to much hassle

I prep so I don't wind up at the Superdome.

[Raoul]

Mainly I'm just interested in storing enough seed to enable me to plant the next season after the SHTF scenario. I can handle short term and have enough supplies to buy or take what I need for 6-8 months. Just thinking about survival 6-12 months out. Not stockpiling food.

[Mike.357]

only having three days of food around is foolishness.

I am not bugging out ( most likely) I am baracading myself in.

One side of the house is ill suited for defense though, no windows. Might need a gun port or two.

SUNTZU if you need extra food storage space I have room.

[Guest SUNTZU]

only having three days of food around is foolishness.

I am not bugging out ( most likely) I am baracading myself in.

One side of the house is ill suited for defense though, no windows. Might need a gun port or two.

SUNTZU if you need extra food storage space I have room.

Thanks, I'll share my chipmunk recipes with you.

And I'll lean against you and you lean against me that way we don't have to sleep with our heads in the mud, Forrest.

[Mark@Sea]

Chipmunk recipes? You have one for Chipmunk on a stick?

"Lord, forgive me for the men I have killed...

and those I am about to."

[Smith]

I'm just curious what kinda events we are planning for with gun ports and seeding fields If it's that bad, seeding food plots is going to be difficult at best if they aren't already there. You're talking about having enough reserves to last several months until a harvest ...at best. Then you have to produce enough to get through till the next seasonal crop and hope all the other growing factors are in place. We haven't even talked about winter, water issues, soil quality, or the difficulty process of land preparation. IMO if you don't already have a pretty decent garden with mature plants that you know will produce and have been producing or very large food reserves to last a year or more, seeds are going to be a lot of work with little benefit over that time period. Only saving grace would be being able to hunt till food plots produce, but at that point you are no longer mobile and everyone else will be hunting the same areas. Just my thoughts.

[G27]

Eat what you store, store what you eat. It's the fundamental tenet of prepping.

There's no need in storing tons of MRE's and such - just store a lot of what you enjoy eating with some regularity. If you plan properly and store stuff that will last a while, rotation is easy - you basically have a very large pantry.

[Moped]

I can't remember what they call such seeds, but I think you don't want to run down to Mayo's and purchase just any old seed. Many of the seed producers now-a-days, produce hybrid seeds. You get one growing season out of them. The fruit doesn't produce seed for next year's crop. It may be called "Heirloom" or some such term.

I think it's smart to stock up on seeds. Usually they don't cost much and take up very little space. Just remember that you also need the proper tools for gardening. A tractor or a draft animal, both of which have to be "fed" as well. If you go mechanical, then you will need gas, oil and spare parts. If you go animal, then you have to store much more food and water.

A bugout bag is not going to be enough in a SHTF situation. Cities are not going to be the place to be if a situation goes on more than three days.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Chipmunk recipes? You have one for Chipmunk on a stick?

"Lord, forgive me for the men I have killed...

and those I am about to."

"Not at first but I came round to it."

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Mainly I'm just interested in storing enough seed to enable me to plant the next season after the SHTF scenario. I can handle short term and have enough supplies to buy or take what I need for 6-8 months. Just thinking about survival 6-12 months out. Not stockpiling food.

Hi Raoul

That is why was describing that Mormon system, because the main sustainable part of the diet is fertile hard red wheat, packed in nitrogen. You eat the same thing you plant, assuming you could get hard red wheat to grow around here. And I bet dollars to donuts the stuff they sell isn't a hybrid that can't make fertile seed.

But it requires a hard-core attitude, because somebody in the house would need to routinely grind a lot of wheat and cook a bunch of bread, and everybody in the house would need to routinely eat a whole lot of bread. Because the canned seed wheat doesn't stay fertile forever. I think it has a very long shelf life for eating purposes, but only a few years for planting purposes.

OTOH, if one were hard-core enough to routinely subsist on home-ground-baked bread, one might be long-term healthier. Adventists do that a lot, and seem healthy enough. If the SHTF, you wouldn't really even notice, because you were already in the habit of eating a 15th century diet <g>.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Food Storage

HEIRLOOM SEEDS - over 1300 varieties of non-hybrid seeds including heirloom vegetable seeds, heirloom flower seeds and heirloom herb seeds.

The Need for Seed: A Guide to Seed Saving - By Brook Elliott

[RobertNashville]

Has anyone here had any experience or checked into foodinsurance.com ( Get an Emergency Food Supply and Survival Food Storage )?

I've been thinking about trying their small "back pack" set-up and if the food seemed decent then perhaps buying enough to last a while but I'd like the hear from someone who has already tried it before spending the money!

[Raoul]

Food Storage

HEIRLOOM SEEDS - over 1300 varieties of non-hybrid seeds including heirloom vegetable seeds, heirloom flower seeds and heirloom herb seeds.

The Need for Seed: A Guide to Seed Saving - By Brook Elliott

Good sites. Thanks.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Has anyone here had any experience or checked into foodinsurance.com ( Get an Emergency Food Supply and Survival Food Storage )?

I've been thinking about trying their small "back pack" set-up and if the food seemed decent then perhaps buying enough to last a while but I'd like the hear from someone who has already tried it before spending the money!

You can make your own out of Mtn. House meals, MRE's (tear the packaging down), and items from the grocery store. A backpack isn't going to go far, but you should have one to get you to your PLANNED destination (hopefully NOT the Superdome).

For the house, try these two places. You can also order stuff for your pack here. Sign up for deals and coupons.

Emergency Essentials - Be Prepared Emergency Preparedness Food Storage

Solar Panels Survival Food and Preparedness Supplies

I haven't ordered from readymaderesources.com but they are located here in East TN. They also have a completely off the grid homestead where they welcome you to come by and see how its done. I'm going to go see that soon.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Good sites. Thanks.

No problem.

[JAB]

just imagine hungry pople finding out that you have food.

Some might consider the allure of stored food to others who failed to prepare to be a danger and a disadvantage. Others might consider it to be 'bait' and a good way to get fresh meat from an...um...alternate source into their diet. I mean, if things are so bad that you are living off of the SpaghettiO's that you stockpiled in the pantry, it isn't like there will be law enforcement to frown on your enjoying a bit of long pig.

Just sayin'.

[JAB]

I'm just curious what kinda events we are planning for with gun ports and seeding fields If it's that bad, seeding food plots is going to be difficult at best if they aren't already there. You're talking about having enough reserves to last several months until a harvest ...at best. Then you have to produce enough to get through till the next seasonal crop and hope all the other growing factors are in place. We haven't even talked about winter, water issues, soil quality, or the difficulty process of land preparation. IMO if you don't already have a pretty decent garden with mature plants that you know will produce and have been producing or very large food reserves to last a year or more, seeds are going to be a lot of work with little benefit over that time period. Only saving grace would be being able to hunt till food plots produce, but at that point you are no longer mobile and everyone else will be hunting the same areas. Just my thoughts.

I think it would depend upon what crops you try to grow. Greens (kale, mustard, etc.) are danged near grass and not that hard to grow - and in East Tennessee, they will produce until late fall or even early winter. Green beans do pretty well with minimal care, too (especially when the seeds are sprouted indoors and the resultant plants put in the ground once they start growing.) Corn isn't hard to grow, either.

I've heard of people growing potatoes literally without even planting them - just putting them into piles of leaves (you don't even have to clean the dirt off of them that way.) Heck, my late father had a small sawmill next to where my sister now lives. She has potatoes growing in what was his sawdust pile (he died in '02 so that sawdust is nice and 'composted' by now.)

Then there are tomatoes. People grow tomatoes in washtubs on their porch.

My grandfather in law raises quite a bit of food in two small, raised beds. He doesn't plow them, till them or even hoe them - he's pretty much just piled dead leaves on them to the point that the resulting 'topsoil' is so loose that he can just push it aside with a small hand spade.

Last year, I had a garden spot that I tilled with a hand tiller. It was a lot of work but that was done while also working a regular job, etc. If in survival mode, such things would be my job and there'd be more time to attend to them. Next year, I plan to take a page from my grandfather in law's book and prepare a couple of raised beds. I'll set those up this fall so I can go ahead and begin piling on the dead leaves.

I don't think that survival gardening would require a tractor or even a mule. Remember that the Cherokee and other Native Americans did it for years with elbow grease and wooden or stone tools. I don't think survival farming means planting 40 acres, either. You wouldn't necessarily be trying to grow enough to sell, just enough to feed you and yours and store some for the winter.

You might have to grow some extra corn, etc. if you have livestock - although I'd probably look mostly to chickens as 'livestock'. Just a few can produce an amazing amount of eggs. Currently, I have only six laying hens and they produce enough eggs that I give two or three dozen to my mom and sister every couple of weeks plus keeping enough for us to use at home. Of course, if those eggs suddenly became a more major part of our diet then I wouldn't have so many extras, but still. My chickens pretty much stay in a coop due to the abundance of critters that like eating chicken but if I had more chickens (i.e. enough to sustain occasional losses to predators) and could let them free range, I wouldn't even have to feed them all that much.

Edited June 23, 2010 by JAB