Permitless Carry in Tennessee in 2011

[eapking]

+1. I'd hope that some sort of permit would still be available, if desired, in order to maintain reciprocity agreements. Personally, I'd be pretty ticked if, after jumping through the hoops and paying the money to obtain a permit, the law were changed in a manner that would lessen the number of areas [states] where I can legally carry. From a philosophical standpoint, I agree with Vermont style carry. From a practical standpoint, however, I'd rather pay the $50 every four years and still be able to legally carry in many other states.

I think this is the way it is in AZ now. You can still get a permit for reciprocity.

[Fallguy]

so you know somebody who is committing a felony and you fine with that?

what is a next step? steal a car until he has finances to buy it?

just asking

That's a good analogy.

Not really....

A better analogy would have been driving a car without a DL.

He has not taken anyone elses prorperty.

Also....carry without a permit is a misdemeanor not a felony unless he is already a convicted felon.

[Guest lci419]

What I would like to see TN do is take away any and all legal force behind the signs. I was just reading a post on another forum to which I belong in which a member who is a resident of Missouri was talking about how signage works there. He said that the signs mean nothing in a legal sense. If you are discovered carrying in a business that doesn't want you to carry, they can ask you to leave (which is their right.) If you refuse, only then can they call the cops. First time that happens, you might get a $100 fine. Second time is $200 and permit suspended for one year and third time is $300 and permit suspended for three years. Thing is, he said, that you must be asked to leave first and only refusal to do so can get you into legal trouble. This recognizes a property owner's right to tell you that they don't want you there but completely neuters the signs.

This might be the prize winner here...we get to carry everywhere, bedwetters feel better because they have their signs and the ability to "punish" us if need be. We keep it low key and don't stir the pot with "in your face" type tactics such as OCing in places it's not desirable (and yes, I support OC if done so with discretion), we get what we want. Even if an "accident" happens and somebody gets bent out of shape, we have an out so we don't become criminals. Plus, this I could see having a realistic chance of passing the right legislature. I really like this...

[Guest faust921]

We should push for permitless carry. Why? The minute we back off and let the other side take the initiative, they will push us lower than the point we are at right now. Not only on this front, but on parking lot bills, protections against confiscation, laws to prohibit ammo taxation and other leftist tactics. I'm not a tin foil hat guy but when this administration starts talking about a "internet switch" to stop "fringe groups" from "spreading hate", who do you think they are talking about??

YOU!! - In their eyes, you are the enemy.

This is not a what if, it is a who's gonna stop it. These are dangerous people in the White House, in our State and even in our city councils. They will attack on all fronts, concealing their agendas until the can impose what they really seek - total control and socialism. They are morally bankrupt and ideologically corrupt. They hate this country, our traditions and all of the things that make us unique and great. We however have no hidden agendas, nothing to lie about or hide or to be ashamed of, and we can still vote these fools out of public policy making. Permits are a joke. Why do I need a permit for something that is ordained by our creator? I don't need a permit for free speech, I don't need a permit to not incriminate myself, why do I need a permit to protect myself? The second amendment was not created to protect your right to shoot sporting clays, or to protect you from your fellow countrymen, it is there to protect you from an out-of-control-government.

History has many examples of power abused but America stands as the oldest democracy. It's not perfect but it's better than the alternatives. No compromise.

[Guest oldsmobile98]

So, you think that you will single handedly be able to abolish the HCP system after two years of just being able to get the state to let us carry in a privately owned business?

Let us know how that turns out.

Definitely not. I can't do much by myself. That's why I posted this thread: teamwork. When I get the bill written up, probably borrowing liberally from the VT, AK, and AZ laws, I'll post it here, and y'all can dissect it. Then I'll go find a rep to introduce it, and everybody who likes it can write their reps and tell 'em to vote for it. Or if you don't like part of it, tell 'em to change part of it and then vote for it.

I know that it will be an uphill battle. I said so in the original post. It may not happen in 2011, but it might. If not, I guess I'll just keep on fighting until it passes.

I might be able to get on board with the Missouri signage policy. Thanks for the post, JAB!

[Oh Shoot]

so you know somebody who is committing a felony and you fine with that?

...

Just a note, illegal gun possession is NOT a felony, even with repeat violations.

- OS

edit: oops, see FG already got to this. Of course. :-)

Edited June 22, 2010 by OhShoot

[Worriedman]

Considering how hard we had to fight for alcohol restaurant carry, I'd say there is absolutely no chance of it passing committee.

Matthew

Depending on who winds up as the Speaker of the House, that may change dramatically next year. Just look at what the move from Naifeh to Williams accomplished.

Speaker sets the Committee rosters, does he not?

[Mike.357]

I think it is very admirable and a noble cause. I wish you lots of luck with it.

Try to get some newspaper to be aware of your meeting. Might get some press out of it. Even bad press is a good thing.

[tnhawk]

I know someone who carries without a permit because of class cost and DMV fee. He knows he needs to get one, but he won't let that stop him from carrying until he has his finances in order to do it.

If he can't pay the fee to obtain a permit, how does he plan to pay bond, legal fees, fine and court costs when he gets caught?

[lunarpowered]

Double edge sword. It's also means that gangsters won't have to worry about carrying either. Liberty is great, and all that, but...

I have to agree. Without a permit it also means that he or she may not be properly fingerprinted.

[lunarpowered]

Also, what about the knowledge and skills you learn in the HCP class? I wouldn't want someone carrying around me if they didn't understand the laws regarding self defense, defense of a 3rd party, castle doctrine, etc..

[Volzfan]

Also, what about the knowledge and skills you learn in the HCP class? I wouldn't want someone carrying around me if they didn't understand the laws regarding self defense, defense of a 3rd party, castle doctrine, etc..

I don't think that there is any HCP class that will give you a completely clear understanding of the laws. That is not their job but rather get you started with basics and then the state leaves it up to the HCP holder to search out the rest on our own whether that is in more classes or at the least to look in other places like TGO on their own. That opinion comes from my time here on TGO and seeing the many questions raised about what is legal and what is not.

I do agree that about getting started with some knowledge about the law as I stated in an earlier post.

In our class there was only a testing of our skills and but I didn't see any teaching at all while on the range.

[JayC]

+1 - I absolutely can not carry at work, and am forced to either break the law or make the commute at all hours with no weapon.

Break the law? Do they have legal signs at the entrance to the parking lot? Otherwise it's not against the law, you're just risking being fired for having a firearm in the vehicle at work.

[JayC]

Nashville is also in the same top ten list as Memphis on crime... Memphis being #2 and Nashville being #8....

There are parts of Nashville I refuse to go without a firearm... And parts I won't let my wife go even with a firearm.

i would be against permitless (Vermont-style) carry for few reasons.

1. Vermont have 1/2 million people 99% belong to same group and most of them are related to eachother. -- can you imagine Memphis allowing permitless Vermont carry.

yup suc.. Memphis is in the house MF.... move.

2.police would have to profile people just to find out who has felony or not. --normally that info is not stamped on your forehead.

3. it just looks ugly if you had a lot of people openly carry a guns. it is not a war zone.. hello Nashville is literally most peaceful city i been to.

i agree about DMV fees. i thing one time in life fee is enough to pay:)

[Guest strelcevina]

Nashville is also in the same top ten list as Memphis on crime... Memphis being #2 and Nashville being #8....

There are parts of Nashville I refuse to go without a firearm... And parts I won't let my wife go even with a firearm.

true . i agree

[JayC]

First, businesses can block your rights all day long... Think about how your work blocks your first amendment right all day long

The Constitution protects your god given rights from an abusive government... Because you largely are an unwilling party to that agreement (unwilling as in born into it with no choice to op out).

The business you work for, is a choice you make, you can quit at anytime if you don't like the rules and restrictions placed on you. The same goes for places you do business with... you can always choose not to do business with them... when they restrict your rights they do so with the understanding you may at anytime choose to end that relationship.

Bills which require you to do business any group are unconstitutional IMHO because we have the freedom of association, which also means we have freedom to not associate with somebody for whatever reason. (This IMHO includes parts of the Civil Rights Act)

Many, almost certainly most, businesses do not own the property they operate from.

The property may not even belong to a TN resident.

You have rights under which businesses can not bar you : your rights to be black, gay, female, Jewish, old, Swedish, etc ...

If handgun carry were a right, it would be in the same category, so you might as well quit referring to it as such...at best it has become a limited privilege.

The fact that you cannot carry a firearm in a Federal facility, which YOU pay for, and which is part of the infrastructure of a government that supposedly exists in obedience to and protection of the Constitution, should show you how far from a "right" it is.

- OS

[Fallguy]

If he can't pay the fee to obtain a permit, how does he plan to pay bond, legal fees, fine and court costs when he gets caught?

Perhaps his plan is not to get caught........

Just as many on here have said about carry past signs etc.... "They won't know I've got it unless I need it" and then mention the protection of 39-17-1322, well 39-17-1322 applies to 39-17-1307 as well.

[Guest strelcevina]

Perhaps his plan is not to get caught........

Just as many on here have said about carry past signs etc.... "They won't know I've got it unless I need it" and then mention the protection of 39-17-1322, well 39-17-1322 applies to 39-17-1307 as well.

wow. i just google it

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/4505-tn-code-39-17-1322-a.html

guy said "Any lawyers or people who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night out there ??"

and none of lawyers responded.

than you come and said " Pretty much the way I take it as well."

and that sums it up.

let me see yours Credibility:

Benefactor.... good good .

Super Moderator ..... nice

U got a look alike police badge as an avatar . impressive

giving advice " what mama doesn't know wont hurt her" that can get a person in prison for a very long time ...Priceless.

[Fallguy]

wow. i just google it

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/4505-tn-code-39-17-1322-a.html

guy said "Any lawyers or people who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night out there ??"

and none of lawyers responded.

than you come and said " Pretty much the way I take it as well."

and that sums it up.

let me see yours Credibility:

Benefactor.... good good .

Super Moderator ..... nice

U got a look alike police badge as an avatar . impressive

giving advice " what mama doesn't know wont hurt her" that can get a person in prison for a very long time ...Priceless.

I didn't give advice to anyone...I don't even know the person that Ebow 1 is talking about.

I also never said I condone illegal activity.

Just trying to correct misinformation (such as it being a felony) and give opinions on matters posted (such as many on here have stated about the intention or non-worry about committing a misdemeanor (same as carry without a permit) by carry in certain places because if they have to use it they are covered)

In the meantime thank you for your evaluation of my Credibility....

Edited June 22, 2010 by Fallguy

[Mike.357]

allowing OC without a permit should be a given. States such as Ohio allow it and IIRC there have been no abundance of issues on account of it.

If you want to conceal you get a permit. So there is at least one Yankee state that is more gun friendly than here. ( people think northern states are anti gun, not always true)

And Strel after your last post even I have lost all respect for you. Quit acting like a douchebag.

[Guest Jamie]

I don't think he's acting, Mike...

J.

[Mike.357]

well I did not want to name call.

[mikegideon]

I don't think he's acting, Mike...

J.

Good to see you, Jamie

[Guest Jamie]

Good to see you, Jamie

Maybe not... I seem to be having one of those weeks. :-\

J.

[Oh Shoot]

Well, again, OC without a permit, CC without one, whatever. That would be fine.

However, I'd work harder on an effort that merely allowed me to carry my freakin gun without having to freakin read every freakin sign on every freakin building I encounter every freakin day across this whole freakin state.

- OS