Permitless Carry in Tennessee in 2011

[strickj]

Well meeting with your elected officials (at least on the state level) is not that hard to do...

I know that.

What I mean is, I doubt I could get my reps to personally meet with me for something that has zero chance of ever becoming anything, yanno

[Guest oldsmobile98]

What other "rights" do you think private businesses should be allowed to deny?

- OS

OS, my position doesn't stem from a low view of Second Amendment rights or any other rights. It stems from a high view of property rights. If you own the property, you can kick anybody off of it for any reason. Of course, I hope restaurants and other businesses decide to allow carry on their property, but it's their prerogative.

Analogy: TGO is David's property, so he gets to make the rules and ban people for breaking them.

I think the permit is a great idea, it brings money to the local gun shops, etc. If we go permitless, how does that affect folks who have no sort of training?

As much as I want gun shops to prosper, this is not the way to make it happen. It's not the state's job to help one group at the cost of another group. As for training, it's not really the state's job to do that either. Don't misread me here: basic training is essential, and advanced training is beneficial. And we need to encourage it relentlessly. But you have the right to keep and bear arms whether you have formal training or not.

But like AK or AZ would be ok. Where they do issue permits, but they are not required to carry within the state.

Sort of get the best of both worlds.

That's what I was aiming for. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

[Ebow1]

As far as carry permits bringing revenue to gun shops go, I think it's safe to say that if the people on this site hadn't've had to take a course, they more then likely would've spent that money on something related to firearms, more then likely at a local gun shop, and more then likely at Guns N Leather specifically.

[mikegideon]

If making a carry permit more affordable is the issue, I say we get rid of the $115 you have to pay the DMV. You go to the class, bring the paperwork to the DMV, they give you more paperwork to fill out, they charge you $115, and then they give you a list of where you have to go to do the fingerprints. As far as I can see the DMV is getting payed $115 and they're not doing jack----!

There are significant costs involved in processing and tracking permits. Probably doesn't cost near 115 bucks per, but you can forget about it ever going away.

[Ebow1]

I know, but it'd still be nice.

[Guest strelcevina]

i would be against permitless (Vermont-style) carry for few reasons.

1. Vermont have 1/2 million people 99% belong to same group and most of them are related to eachother. -- can you imagine Memphis allowing permitless Vermont carry.

yup suc.. Memphis is in the house MF.... move.

2.police would have to profile people just to find out who has felony or not. --normally that info is not stamped on your forehead.

3. it just looks ugly if you had a lot of people openly carry a guns. it is not a war zone.. hello Nashville is literally most peaceful city i been to.

i agree about DMV fees. i thing one time in life fee is enough to pay:)

[Guest oldsmobile98]

Have they personally said they were going to meet with you, or is this just a fantasy post to make you look good here?

I met with Overbey a while back in his Nashville office about a precursor to the TN Firearms Freedom Act.

I can't recall for sure, but I don't believe his secretary asked for a reason to meet with him. If she did, I said "TN Firearms Freedom Act". Meeting with citizens is his job. It's why he gets paid. To do our will (given that our will is within the bounds of the US and TN Constitutions).

If I were going to craft a fantasy post to make me look good here, I could come up with a much better story. Like me shooting a 2-inch group at 500 yards.

It doesn't have "zero chance of ever becoming anything". Permitless carry is already in 3 states.

Anyhow, Americans have a love of the near-impossible. It's how the American colonists defeated the world's greatest military force, Great Britain. A couple hundred years later, we decided to send some guys to the moon. No big deal.

[Ebow1]

I know of a few people I wouldn't mind sending to the moon now. Although I would mind if they came back.

[-Bristol-]

One time fee would be nice.

Someone needs to be making a list because we need to speak with one voice. One "Realistic" voice as to what is actually doable and what the legislators will buy into. I've read the entire thread and see some good ideas while some are not very well thought out.

[Oh Shoot]

OS, my position doesn't stem from a low view of Second Amendment rights or any other rights. It stems from a high view of property rights. If you own the property, you can kick anybody off of it for any reason. Of course, I hope restaurants and other businesses decide to allow carry on their property, but it's their prerogative.

Many, almost certainly most, businesses do not own the property they operate from.

The property may not even belong to a TN resident.

You have rights under which businesses can not bar you : your rights to be black, gay, female, Jewish, old, Swedish, etc ...

If handgun carry were a right, it would be in the same category, so you might as well quit referring to it as such...at best it has become a limited privilege.

The fact that you cannot carry a firearm in a Federal facility, which YOU pay for, and which is part of the infrastructure of a government that supposedly exists in obedience to and protection of the Constitution, should show you how far from a "right" it is.

- OS

Edited June 21, 2010 by OhShoot

[Ebow1]

OhShoot is absolutely right! BUSINESSES ACROSS THIS STATE AND COUNTRY NEED TO STOP DENYING ME MY RIGHT TO BE BLACK SIMPLY BECAUSE I AM WHITE!

[Fallguy]

i would be against permitless (Vermont-style) carry for few reasons.

1. Vermont have 1/2 million people 99% belong to same group and most of them are related to eachother. -- can you imagine Memphis allowing permitless Vermont carry.

yup suc.. Memphis is in the house MF.... move.

2.police would have to profile people just to find out who has felony or not. --normally that info is not stamped on your forehead.

3. it just looks ugly if you had a lot of people openly carry a guns. it is not a war zone.. hello Nashville is literally most peaceful city i been to.

i agree about DMV fees. i thing one time in life fee is enough to pay:)

1. Not going to touch that one...

2. Not sure if by "profile" you mean make assumptions based on apperance etc... or run a criminal back ground check, but there is nothing wrong with thinking someone is law abiding until they have done something to show they are not.

3. I think the OP meant to allow CC without a permit as well...like VT, AK and AZ

[Guest strelcevina]

I agree wit Bristol - one voice --

how many people are discouraged from taking a test do to cost. 150+ for class, 100+ for dmv + you got to buy a gun and ammo. that is 500$+ at least.

if we make only one time fee , class optional it could incurage much more people to get it

[Ebow1]

I know someone who carries without a permit because of class cost and DMV fee. He knows he needs to get one, but he won't let that stop him from carrying until he has his finances in order to do it.

[Oh Shoot]

OhShoot is absolutely right! BUSINESSES ACROSS THIS STATE AND COUNTRY NEED TO STOP DENYING ME MY RIGHT TO BE BLACK SIMPLY BECAUSE I AM WHITE!

Yeah, me too.

But I am taking full advantage of being a 112 year old Druid practicing Venusian.

- OS

[Ebow1]

I'm a Swedish woman on occassion.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I knew I'd seen you before:D

[Ebow1]

Oh gods. That must've been what happened between showing up with a bottle of rum and waking up to "Eric wake up you're naked in my driveway".

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Hate to say this but this ain't gonna happen anyways.

[strickj]

Many, almost certainly most, businesses do not own the property they operate from.

The property may not even belong to a TN resident.

You have rights under which businesses can not bar you : your rights to be black, gay, female, Jewish, old, Swedish, etc ...

If handgun carry were a right, it would be in the same category, so you might as well quit referring to it as such...at best it has become a limited privilege.

The fact that you cannot carry a firearm in a Federal facility, which YOU pay for, and which is part of the infrastructure of a government that supposedly exists in obedience to and protection of the Constitution, should show you how far from a "right" it is.

- OS

You do not have a right to be Jewish, etc. Those are Civil Rights.

Civil Rights are to keep you from being discriminated against from being waited on, sold to, have admittance to, etc because your are Jewish or black.

The 2nd is not included within civil rights and you have no protection under law from being discriminated against because you are a gun owner or gun carrier. As it should be. If I don't want you in my building because you are not wearing a shirt, or not wearing a gun, then that is my right.

If I were going to craft a fantasy post to make me look good here, I could come up with a much better story. Like me shooting a 2-inch group at 500 yards.

It doesn't have "zero chance of ever becoming anything". Permitless carry is already in 3 states.

So, you think that you will single handedly be able to abolish the HCP system after two years of just being able to get the state to let us carry in a privately owned business?

Let us know how that turns out.

[Volzfan]

I've had my HCP for a few years now and I would be happy if it would just be made to be permanent and no renewal necessary. I like that everyone at least has to go thru the class and prove that they have at least a small amount of ability to pass the course although it doesn't take much knowledge or skill to pass.

It is my understanding that these 3 states still will issue citizens a permit so that they can go into other states that recognize that permit. The problem is that some states seem to be withdrawing the reciprocity agreements when the level of training drops top zero. They want to know that visitors with permits have shown a minimum amount of skill and knowledge in order to earn that permit and not simply filled out a form to get it.

I would like to see the ability to post any business completely removed. As an HCP holder I feel that if a business is open to the public then I should be able to go into any that I choose. If it is a private country club or something of that sort then let them post. Let them exempt government offices and court houses. That way any sign works and there is no money from the state budget involved. I don't go into any of them very often and more are allowing online business to be done anyway.

And for the record, I don't miss Lenny!

[Guest strelcevina]

I know someone who carries without a permit because of class cost and DMV fee. He knows he needs to get one, but he won't let that stop him from carrying until he has his finances in order to do it.

so you know somebody who is committing a felony and you fine with that?

what is a next step? steal a car until he has finances to buy it?

just asking

[Ebow1]

Any illegal act he commits is between himself, the authorities, and the victim. I am currently none of those things so no, I don't. Now my opinion might change if the felony he were in violation of actually had a victim to speak of but it doesn't. His intention is to protect himself, not to harm others, and I have no problem with that.

[JAB]

OS, my position doesn't stem from a low view of Second Amendment rights or any other rights. It stems from a high view of property rights. If you own the property, you can kick anybody off of it for any reason. Of course, I hope restaurants and other businesses decide to allow carry on their property, but it's their prerogative.

Analogy: TGO is David's property, so he gets to make the rules and ban people for breaking them.

What I would like to see TN do is take away any and all legal force behind the signs. I was just reading a post on another forum to which I belong in which a member who is a resident of Missouri was talking about how signage works there. He said that the signs mean nothing in a legal sense. If you are discovered carrying in a business that doesn't want you to carry, they can ask you to leave (which is their right.) If you refuse, only then can they call the cops. First time that happens, you might get a $100 fine. Second time is $200 and permit suspended for one year and third time is $300 and permit suspended for three years. Thing is, he said, that you must be asked to leave first and only refusal to do so can get you into legal trouble. This recognizes a property owner's right to tell you that they don't want you there but completely neuters the signs. That sounds like a good compromise, to me - even though I still probably wouldn't enter if a place were posted as I don't want to give my money to anyone who doesn't want me in their store.

Still, being able to have a firearm in my vehicle while at work (I work at a satellite campus of a private college and my employer has a rule against it, so there is a "double-whammy") is the most pressing issue on my mind right now. I'm not even looking to be able to carry at work - I'd just like to be able to have a firearm in the confines of my own property (my vehicle) while I am at work.

Edited June 21, 2010 by JAB

[lunarpowered]

so you know somebody who is committing a felony and you fine with that?

what is a next step? steal a car until he has finances to buy it?

That's a good analogy.