Permitless Carry in Tennessee in 2011

[Guest oldsmobile98]

So, I am gonna meet with my reps and do my dead-level best to get one of them to file this bill this coming January when the General Assembly convenes.

We have made significant progress in restaurant carry and park carry. I think permitless (Vermont-style) carry could be our next big project. It'll be an uphill battle, to be sure, but those are the best kind, right?

*Note: this thread could fit in a lot of different subforums, so apologies to the mods if I miscategorized it.*

Edited June 21, 2010 by oldsmobile98

[mikegideon]

Double edge sword. It's also means that gangsters won't have to worry about carrying either. Liberty is great, and all that, but...

[macville]

Considering how hard we had to fight for alcohol restaurant carry, I'd say there is absolutely no chance of it passing committee. Here's things that I think would be better fights (not that I wouldn't fight for that kind of carry!) Get into law something that says arms laws have to be proven to prevent crime to stay on the books. A ton of places like schools, parks, etc. would then become okay because there is no possible way to prove that those laws prevent any crime (which we already know AND CAN PROVE that they don't stop criminals.) Law that allows private schools (k-12 and colleges) to allow carry. I've yet to see a private school that is posted, so evidently they don't care that much about making sure people know you can't carry there. Law that requires a proper posting to be like Texas's (one official sign that is bigger than a 8.5x12 sheet of paper) and no criminal penalty or fine for places other than courtrooms if caught carrying there.

Those to me, are doable laws. The only other thing I could see us push is instead of having totally free carry (not seeing that happen due to all the liberals in nashville and memphis) would be having free HCP classes and the license is either free, or super cheap..like $10. If your entire permit costs $10, no one can really say that can't afford that. Heck, I might even pay for some people to get their permit because it would cheaper than paying for another cop on the streets!

Matthew

[macville]

Double edge sword. It's also means that gangsters won't have to worry about carrying either. Liberty is great, and all that, but...

Why not? Normally if you see a gangster with his gun out, he's committing a crime. When they catch one of those jerks committing a crime and find out he has a felony, they've got another charge. Nothing changes then. Now, if you think gangsters are going to open carry...I haven't see any reports of that happening in other states where OC is legal without a permit. Criminals these days like to hide their guns.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Double edge sword. It's also means that gangsters won't have to worry about carrying either. Liberty is great, and all that, but...

Considering it is already a crime for a criminal to possess a gun, why is it a double edged

sword? Criminals don't abide by the law. The Gun Control Acts made it illegal to possess

certain weapons without first registering them, which goes against the grain of the 2nd

amendment. Criminals lose those protections when they commit a crime. A law abiding

citizen shouldn't have to jump through hoops to be proven legitimate to own or possess

a weapon since, by fact of law, he is not a criminal.

It is only a double edged sword used by antis to restrict gun ownership.

[mikegideon]

Considering it is already a crime for a criminal to possess a gun, why is it a double edged

sword? Criminals don't abide by the law. The Gun Control Acts made it illegal to possess

certain weapons without first registering them, which goes against the grain of the 2nd

amendment. Criminals lose those protections when they commit a crime. A law abiding

citizen shouldn't have to jump through hoops to be proven legitimate to own or possess

a weapon since, by fact of law, he is not a criminal.

It is only a double edged sword used by antis to restrict gun ownership.

Maybe I spoke too soon. This could do a lot to clean up the gene pool. Arm everybody, especially Leonard. I miss him

[LagerHead]

Double edge sword. It's also means that gangsters won't have to worry about carrying either. Liberty is great, and all that, but...

^^What they said.

Considering how hard we had to fight for alcohol restaurant carry, I'd say there is absolutely no chance of it passing committee. Here's things that I think would be better fights (not that I wouldn't fight for that kind of carry!) Get into law something that says arms laws have to be proven to prevent crime to stay on the books.

You mean like this?

Section 26. That the citizens of this state have a right to keep and to bear

arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to

regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

Source: The Constitution of the State of Tennesse, Article I, Section 26.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that legislators only enact laws according to law, or the Constitution. They ignore both.

A ton of places like schools, parks, etc. would then become okay because there is no possible way to prove that those laws prevent any crime (which we already know AND CAN PROVE that they don't stop criminals.)

You also seem to think they care about facts. If they did, there would never have been an assault weapons ban, "gun free zones," or the new health care bill.

I know it seems like I'm picking on you, but it's the lawmakers who I am picking on. Fortunately, even in a batch of rotten apples you find a few good ones. I do hope we see more laws like the ones you pointed out though.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Aww, you know I wasn't picking a fight:D Even Leonard would probably have not done his

antics, if it were the case. At least I hope so. But I don't miss him

[mikegideon]

Aww, you know I wasn't picking a fight:D Even Leonard would probably have not done his

antics, if it were the case. At least I hope so. But I don't miss him

I do. More fun than watching a monkey on Viagra.

My post was kinda playing devil's advocate. I would like nothing better than to return to the gun laws of the '70's, but I'm not sure anybody had the right to carry concealed back then.

I don't see it passing, but I could be wrong.

[tntnixon]

There is one big problem with permitless carry. Some states will pull out of our reciprocity agreements, limiting our movement.

[daddyo]

Double edge sword. It's also means that gangsters won't have to worry about carrying either. Liberty is great, and all that, but...

Unless they have a record...

[JAB]

There is one big problem with permitless carry. Some states will pull out of our reciprocity agreements, limiting our movement.

+1. I'd hope that some sort of permit would still be available, if desired, in order to maintain reciprocity agreements. Personally, I'd be pretty ticked if, after jumping through the hoops and paying the money to obtain a permit, the law were changed in a manner that would lessen the number of areas [states] where I can legally carry. From a philosophical standpoint, I agree with Vermont style carry. From a practical standpoint, however, I'd rather pay the $50 every four years and still be able to legally carry in many other states.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't have a prob with the HCP as much as I have a prob that the HCP is toothless.

- TN denies me the right to carry

- TN allows me to carry by becoming part of a privileged class

- TN then denies me the right they just gave me by allowing government and private entities to disallow carry

Hell, I can't even carry in the very places I "own", those being built and supported with my own taxes.

How about we concentrate on actually allowing HCP holders to simply carry a frigging gun instead of requiring us to read every sign on every structure we encounter?

- OS

[Bubba0031]

Next bill I want to see passed is the one saying an employee can't be denied keeping a handgun in his/her automobile on company proporty as long as it's locked up.

[Guest oldsmobile98]

Thanks, tntnixon and JAB, for reminding me about reciprocity. I'll have to think on a solution.

I don't have a prob with the HCP as much as I have a prob that the HCP is toothless.

- TN denies me the right to carry

- TN allows me to carry by becoming part of a privileged class

- TN then denies me the right they just gave me by allowing government and private entities to disallow carry

Hell, I can't even carry in the very places I "own", those being built and supported with my own taxes.

How about we concentrate on actually allowing HCP holders to simply carry a frigging gun instead of requiring us to read every sign on every structure we encounter?

- OS

If permitless carry is passed, it'll truly be a right, not a privilege.

With regard to government areas and buildings, you're right, and that's another goal we need to work toward.

However, I believe private entities and businesses should be able to disallow carry by their customers if they want to. And they should also be able to require that each customer wear a funny hat and walk like an Egyptian while in the store. Their property, their rules.

[Oh Shoot]

...If permitless carry is passed, it'll truly be a right, not a privilege.

...

However, I believe private entities and businesses should be able to disallow carry by their customers if they want to.

What other "rights" do you think private businesses should be allowed to deny?

- OS

[JReedEsq]

How about we concentrate on actually allowing HCP holders to simply carry a frigging gun instead of requiring us to read every sign on every structure we encounter?

- OS

+10

[JPS]

Next bill I want to see passed is the one saying an employee can't be denied keeping a handgun in his/her automobile on company proporty as long as it's locked up.

+1 - I absolutely can not carry at work, and am forced to either break the law or make the commute at all hours with no weapon.

[Fallguy]

There is one big problem with permitless carry. Some states will pull out of our reciprocity agreements, limiting our movement.

What?

Why would they do that? As long as they are state that requires a permit to carry...then you have to have a permit to carry there? Just because you are from AK, VT or AZ doesn't mean you can carry in states that require a permit. Look at the places that honor AK permits...it some states that don't even honor TN permits, but you can carry without a permit in AK. But if you do get a permit you have to meet certain requirments, just like you would in if you still got a permit from TN.

That being said....it has no chance of passing in TN

[Ebow1]

The first carry related issue I'd like to see change is campus carry. Start with campus colleges where everybody there except for an extremely tiny minority is 18 or over, and legally adults. Then a bill stating that companies cannot restrict an employees right to carry just because they are on the clock. Being a delivery driver, I would like to have my handgun with me, and I have open carried in my store while off the clock. I would completely ignore company policy and carry anyway except for the fact that the instant a delivery to a school pops up, it becomes a felony. If we can allow campus carry, and then further that to all schools, I'd be carrying at work regardless of policy. A bill forcing them to leave my right to carry alone, would just be icing on the cake. I don't see requiring a permit to be that big of an issue but that's just me. I also see permitless carry to be one massive uphill battle. Now, I like what Louisiana has. Permitless open carry. Buy a handgun, you can carry it, as long as no attempt is made to conceal it and it is visible from 3 points of view. If you want to conceal carry, you can get a permit for that.

[Guest Risky Ruger]

I think the permit is a great idea, it brings money to the local gun shops, etc. If we go permitless, how does that affect folks who have no sort of training?

[Fallguy]

+1. I'd hope that some sort of permit would still be available, if desired, in order to maintain reciprocity agreements. Personally, I'd be pretty ticked if, after jumping through the hoops and paying the money to obtain a permit, the law were changed in a manner that would lessen the number of areas [states] where I can legally carry. From a philosophical standpoint, I agree with Vermont style carry. From a practical standpoint, however, I'd rather pay the $50 every four years and still be able to legally carry in many other states.

Well I admit I may have assumes somethings in the OP.

I for sure don't want to see TN stop issuing permits either, like VT does not issue them. But like AK or AZ would be ok. Where they do issue permits, but they are not required to carry within the state.

Sort of get the best of both worlds.

So while most people do say "Vermont style" carry...until all states do that (not going to happen) AK, AZ style would really be better.

[Ebow1]

If making a carry permit more affordable is the issue, I say we get rid of the $115 you have to pay the DMV. You go to the class, bring the paperwork to the DMV, they give you more paperwork to fill out, they charge you $115, and then they give you a list of where you have to go to do the fingerprints. As far as I can see the DMV is getting payed $115 and they're not doing jack----!

[strickj]

So, I am gonna meet with my reps and do my dead-level best to get one of them to file this bill this coming January when the General Assembly convenes.

We have made significant progress in restaurant carry and park carry. I think permitless (Vermont-style) carry could be our next big project. It'll be an uphill battle, to be sure, but those are the best kind, right?

*Note: this thread could fit in a lot of different subforums, so apologies to the mods if I miscategorized it.*

Have they personally said they were going to meet with you, or is this just a fantasy post to make you look good here?

[Fallguy]

Have they personally said they were going to meet with you, or is this just a fantasy post to make you look good here?

Well meeting with your elected officials (at least on the state level) is not that hard to do...