A Newbie and his Newbie wife first outing looking at fire arms experience

[RobertY]

Well I had Penny take me to several places a few weeks ago. Result: no gun yet. But we did see a few that we will be considering. Here is a gun newbies run down of today.

First my experience with guns. Almost nil. At around age 16 I used to shoot my uncles Colt .45 pistol, also his double barrel shot gun. In High School was in NJROTC for 3 years on their drill team and rifle team. Was really good with the bolt action .22 rifle. As you can see those are guns from long ago. Very different from todays semi automatics and such.

Penny's experience with guns. Zippo. Nadda. Nil. Goose Egg.

Each place we went into that was explained to them along with what we were kind of in the market for. A .22 or .25 pistol for Penny (she wants a carry permit). A .38 cylinder pistol for me. A shot gun. Not all at once as we are not rich.

First place visited. Farnsworth in Vonore. Result: left there ticked off and feeling like a moron.

Reason: Explained everything like mentioned above so the guy knew we knew almost nothing. He was an older on the thin side man. The first thing he did was whip out a few semi automatic .38 pistols to show me. I picked one up and looked at him in confusion and asked him how does it work. He took it from me and faster than my eye could follow he popped the clip out, put it back in, and did a slidey action thing. I picked one up and examined it. Finally I saw a button to push. Ohhh button... pushed it and the clip fell out. I did catch the clip. I put the clip back in and I slide the top of the gun back. Huh??? What gives??? Now it is stuck! Crap! I have broken the gun! I catch his attention and point it out to him. He takes it from me and does something and it slides back in place. I pick up another one and repeat the process. CRAP!!! Now I have broken this one!! It did the same thing. It is stuck! I catch his attention again and tell him this one is jammed to. He gives me a very irritated look and uses a snide voice and tells me I have to release the clip. Ah... so I push the button and the clip pops out and he raises his voice don't drop it on the floor. I once again caught it. I may be getting old but I can still catch things I think. Mmm... work slide to pretend to cock the gun... arg... same thing. I am thinking what the heck am I supposed to do if someone breaks in? Call a time out to Mr. Burglar while I keep working the slide and popping the clip until it works right? I told the guy forget it, to let me see some revolvers. He did show me a few with which I was surprised as how easily it came back to me to just thumb the button and twitch to quickly open it up, spin the cylinder to check for smoothness, and pop it back. Felt good. Let me peep at the price tag. Whoa... set it down and back slowly away. We went out the door. The guy with body language, tone of voice, and handling made me feel like a total moron which just ticks me off. I was so tempted to challenge him to doing things on a PC so I could return the favor and make him feel like a moron. But I bit my tongue and we just left.

Next stop: The Pawn Shop in Loudon.

The guy was very friendly. But he had only about 4 pistols that were not for us. I told him (i was still ticked) about our experience at Farnsworth. He (a pawn shop owner not a gun dealer) explained to me that I was not breaking the semi automatics, and they were also not jamming. He explained to me that if there is nothing in the chamber and the clip is empty the slide will not go back into the ready position. That is how it is supposed to work to show you that you are out of ammo. Ahhh... Thank You! He apologized for not having more but his stock was currently low and he pointed us toward Global Pawn in Lenoir City. Now why couldn't the bozo at Farnsworth explain that instead of making me feel like an idiot?

Next Stop:

GUNS! At Watt Road and hickory Creek inside G&A Equipment.

Very friendly and patient with us. In fact this is where we found what we are now interested in. The down side is that he only does 30 day lay a away so unless we can save the money we will just have to be patient ourselves. LOL! Here is what caught our eyes.

Penny: Taurus PT22. $277.00. Black model with the dark rose wood hand grips. She actually said it was pretty. It also felt good in her small hands and was not to heavy. Also small enough to carry in her purse. He also recommended a certain holster for just that purpose and informed her that he holds Carry permit classes. Between him and the State a carry permit would run her around $200.00. Whew!

Me: Taurus Model 85 .38 Special. $355.00. I thought it looked good. Had a short barrel so would be an easy carry. Smooth cylinder action. Medium weight and felt good in my hands with my short fat fingers. LOL!

The House: Mossberg Maverick 88 12 gage shot gun pump action. $235.00 Brand new. I like the sound the chambering action made. Easily loud enough to be heard through a closed door. LOL!

Next Stop Global Pawn:

Wanted me to buy the $300.00 out the door .38. Barrel way to long. I told him that I did not want to look like cowboy Bob and that is what I would look like having a holster big enough for that thing. He showed me some other .38's but he was way higher in price than GUNS! and his stuff was very very used. Some were even broken and he was still higher in price. I asked him why he was so high priced and he told me that this was the lowest prices for guns that I would find since OBama took office. I did not argue with him we just left.

Whew! That was our day. Something tells me that this is going to be just as hard as finding a house. LOL!

Now this past weds. we did another excursion. We went to Bill's Outpost in Maryville. Both of us were pleased with I guess it was Bill. He was the only one there. We came in and interrupted his lunch. We begged him to go on and eat as we both know what it is like trying to wolf down your lunch and work at the same time. Well, he wolfed down his lunch just so he could take time with us and answer our questions. He showed Penny many other models but she still likes the Taurus PT22. Bill had the same model as she found at GUNS! The price was also right in line. She just has a horrible time racking slides and does not like the look of revolvers. He made the suggestion to Penny that if that was going to be her carry gun that she needs to have high velocity ammo. He was really patient with us even though he was getting very busy. Showed us different type holsters for different uses, showed her how to clean the PT22, different ammo. Even worked up when asked a rough estimate of how much everything would be. WOW! Things add up big time in a hurry. LOL! Very friendly and informative!

So from a newbies point of view a break down would be to stay away from Farnsworth until you can talk the talk and walk the walk and already be part of the good ole boys club.

Two thumbs up to GUNS!

Two thumbs up to Bills Outpost.

Pawn shops: the one in Loudon was nice, the one in Lenoir City not so nice. The selections in either was not really on par with a Gun shop.

[gregintenn]

Sounds like you've had quite a time. It is a shame, but there are more than enough folks in gun shops who seem to derive a thrill from trying to impress, or intimidate others with their supposed knowledge of firearms. I've found this type of person usually uses this tactic to try and cover the fact that they actually know very little. I, for one, never return to these type of shops. There are many fine and knowledgeable people here who can answer most questions you might have. I'd suggest you find someone on here, or at least a range that rents guns, to let you shoot a variety of guns before deciding on exactly what you want. I've bought and sold hundreds of guns, and my wife says I still don't know what I want. It sounds like you had a good experience with Bill's Outpost. I'd encourage you to return the favor and give him your business when you decide what you want.

[Mike.357]

sounds like a not so pleasurable experience.

Now if things are equal I recommend you go see Mike at Austins TN Firearms in Oak Ridge. They are great people and will be very patient with you.

Mike also teaches NRA Basic Pistol and along with that you take the HCP course. I can't stress enough to get some training. Being relatively new to guns ( and your wife a gun virgin) the Basic Pistol course is a no brainer.

just my two cents.

Don't get discouraged by any of it. This is a terrible addiction you are getting involved in

[RobertY]

Thank You. You can rest assured that we will never step foot in Farnsworth again. It does not feel good to be treated in such a way. To go back again is just begging for the same treatment. No Thank You. For as on here I have had one person PM me with an offer to show us the ropes. I found that very kind and more than likely will be taking him up on it when our busier than normal schedules calm down a bit.

Thank You also for the advice. We will be checking out a couple more places. We will try to make Austins one of them. Not afraid of it becoming an addiction because due to money matters we will be stopping once we both get hand guns and get a shot gun for the home (over a time period lol), oh and carry permits.

I did find online a range in Maryville that rents lanes along with renting firearms. I will be calling them on Monday for prices. I want the wife comfortable and confident in her choice of fire arm. Problem is she hates guns. BUT!! She does see the need for them because it is getting wacko out there so she is willing to try. So the choice of fire arm will be her choice. I do want her to try a larger caliber than the PT22 but she is small and fine boned. So recoil will be a big issue and also being able to "rack?" the fire arm. I think that is one reason she is drawn to the PT22 because it has the tilt barrel that she is able to operate with ease. Plus she says it is pretty for a gun. LOL!

[LagerHead]

On the plus side, you've gotten quite an education in a short period of time, both on guns and attitudes. ;-) I'll echo Gregg's suggestion: shoot a bunch of different types of guns, including semi-autos. You may not be used to them now, but you may find you like them better, especially with the higher capacities that they will allow you to carry.

On another note: I actually learned to shoot semi-autos before revolvers, so my first experience with a revolver was funny too. In my case, the revolver wasn't new, and the cylinder was loose, so it wouldn't go back in. It took me a bit to figure out what was going on. Oh well. Live and learn.

[DaveTN]

Robert, are you looking for somewhere that will show you exactly what you want after you have told them you are totally clueless about what you are doing? If you are… don’t read the rest of my post; just try to find a gun dealer that is “niceâ€.

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Good… you came to the right place. This forum will give you a little bit of an education before you go to the shop.

Don’t buy your first gun based on how it looks (There will be plenty of time for that later). If it is going to be your carry gun buy it based on its ability to perform when needed to save your life.

While people die from being shot by .22’s they are not a good self defense round. They are not very good at making the bad guy unable or unwilling to fire his weapon at you… your goal.

I wouldn’t buy a gun made by Taurus. But that is simply because I am fortunate enough to be able to afford something better. However…. If I was buying a revolver it would not be a .38 only; which is what the Model 85 is (as far as I can tell). I would be looking at a .357Mag because it has the ability to shoot both .38 and .357Mag, and I would be looking at Smith & Wesson or Ruger.

I would ask you the following questions and recommended something based on your responses and your experience.

1. What is the single most important purpose of this weapon. (Pick only one.)

a. Plinker… I will practice at home or at the range with it shooting cans and targets.

b. Range Gun… I want a highly accurate gun to shoot in competition or at the range.

c. Home Defense… I am looking for a gun to keep in the house for protection in case of a burglary or home invasion.

d. Self Defense Carry Weapon… I am looking for a carry gun that I feel is reliable and is in a caliber that I feel is reliable to stop the threat of an armed attacker preparing to take my life.

Don’t look for (e). There is no “all of the aboveâ€. You will find that is why you will be buying more guns.

How much will you practice? How many times a month or year do you see yourself and your wife going to the range?

What is your budget? And I know that’s a hard question to answer. Basically what I am saying is that you are looking at three different guns right now and trying to find them cheap. (A gun for you, one for her, and a shotgun for the house) maybe you should be looking for one quality gun for your first gun since you are talking like it will be a carry gun.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

[RobertY]

In my case my first experience with a semi auto was frustrating and highly embarrassing. Left a very bad taste in my mouth against them. I know that is not using common sense as they do carry more ammo. But I figure if I can get a speed loader for the revolver I decide on then it will even the playing field at least a little. Plus I forgot which shop I was in in which they also leaned toward a revolver by informing me that with a semi auto you are only guaranteed your first shot. After that there is the possibility of a jam or a mis feed which you have to clear before getting a second shot off. With a revolver just pull the trigger again as 99% of the time with a misfire? it is due to a bad ammo as opposed to gun malfunction. Was that sound advice or was I misinformed on that?

This forum is very friendly. Thank You.

The wife how ever who has never fired a shot does want a semi auto because she says that the revolvers are to bulky.

[Guest bkelm18]

Just on a side note, "Guns!" is actually named Personal Defense Options.

Edited June 20, 2010 by bkelm18

[RobertY]

Hi Dave,

You ask some tough questions. LOL!

What I am looking for in a dealer is one that is nice and knowledgeable. One that is willing to answer questions and to demonstrate, not treat me like I am a total dork and dumber than dirt. I know at this point of time I am a babe in the woods with minimal experience with fire arms. I was upfront about that in all the places that we went. There is NO excuse what so ever to treat a person like you are something stuck to the bottom of their shoe just because they are new to this. I can garuntee you that that person that did so was not born with a fire arm in their hands and knew everything about them. Everybody was new to fire arms at one time. I think that people tend to forget that.

Another toughie from you, man your good. LOL! I would have to say:

d. Self Defense Carry Weapon… I am looking for a carry gun that I feel is reliable and is in a caliber that I feel is reliable to stop the threat of an armed attacker preparing to take my life.

But here is the kicker to that one. The first one will be for the wife. The reason is she works at a store and as winter draws closer it does get dark before she gets off. We are worried that the umm... seedier people will think that she takes the deposit money with her when she leaves. She doesn't, but they don't know that. No her store where she works has not been robbed yet (broken into yes after hours) but a few of the other stores in the chain have been held up.

The problem is she is only 5' tall and maybe 100lbs. Her wrists are very fine boned (and have been injured many times) and she is afraid that the higher calibers will hurt or even break her wrists from the kick. She has held some of the larger calibers and she says they are to heavy and do not "fit" her hands being that the trigger is to far forward for her finger to seat properly on it and her not being able to rack it.

As for another of your questions I am hoping that we will be able to go to a range and practice at least every two months.

As for our budget that is the hardest question of all. I know her life is priceless. BUT! Unfortunately we have to live in the real world and be able to afford it. The price difference between the brands is incredible. The reason we are looking at Taurus is because we have been told that in its price range it is dependable. We do not want one that is going to fall apart when you pull the slide or the trigger. but can not afford the upper brands. That is one reason I mentioned that we are just going to have to get them one at a time over a time period with hers being first along with getting her a carry permit.

Thank You for asking those questions as they also help clarify to this forum what we are up against.

[RobertY]

LOL! Thank You bk for clearing that up. I thought their name was GUNS! because that is what is on all their signs. I thought that Personal Defense Options was thier logo or tag line. LOL!

[Oh Shoot]

In my case my first experience with a semi auto was frustrating and highly embarrassing. Left a very bad taste in my mouth against them. I know that is not using common sense as they do carry more ammo.

You haven't really HAD an experience with a semi-auto until you've loaded and fired one, changed mags, etc. Really.

Also there are 7 shot semi-autos actually thinner and as small or smaller than the smallest revolvers, if size is a prime issue.

They have advantage of quicker reloading, unless you are a world class revolver handler. Of course, if you have found yourself in a close quarters gunfight where you have to reload, well, odds are you WON'T be reloading at all.

But I figure if I can get a speed loader for the revolver I decide on then it will even the playing field at least a little.

See point 3 above.

Plus I forgot which shop I was in in which they also leaned toward a revolver by informing me that with a semi auto you are only guaranteed your first shot. After that there is the possibility of a jam or a mis feed which you have to clear before getting a second shot off. With a revolver just pull the trigger again as 99% of the time with a misfire? it is due to a bad ammo as opposed to gun malfunction. Was that sound advice or was I misinformed on that?

I think I can safely speak for others enough to say that those of us who carry semi-autos have put enough rounds through them, and especially tested enough of the specific rounds we carry for self defense, that we have complete confidence that they will run as well as any gun made. Of course I myself would not carry a gun that I didn't completely trust to go boom. And boom + 13 after that.

Yes, on a bad round (one that doesn't fire) a revolver simply allows you to pull the trigger again.

However, the odds of a misfire with commercial center fire ammo is very very very low. Even with low end "range" ammo, the misfire rate is so low as to be negligible and with quality personal defense ammo, so low as to be practically non-existent.

And no, revolvers aren't foolproof, and CAN (very rarely) malfunction/jam.

A common cause is shooting full power rounds with light bullet weights in an "airweight" (light, alloy) revolver, where the bullet comes unseated from the rest of the cartridge with recoil and jams against the cylinder casing, preventing cylinder rotation and firing the next round.

Obviously, the simplest gun to operate is indeed a revolver, however.

Firearms, like most things in life, are always a tradeoff. Capacity, caliber, functionality, personal ergonomics, etc. etc.

Shoot a bunch of guns, find one that speaks to you and go with it. Likely it won't be your last one, anyway!

I advise .38 special or larger in revolver (you'd carry .38 +p) and 9mm or larger in semi-auto.

Personally,I love revolvers, shot my Blackhawk .357 at the range today, and also have a Ruger SP101.

But for various reasons I carry an XD 9mm Sub Compact (see avatar) or a Kahr PM9 in the pocket.

Welcome aboard TGO.

- OS

[eapking]

In my case my first experience with a semi auto was frustrating and highly embarrassing. Left a very bad taste in my mouth against them. I know that is not using common sense as they do carry more ammo. But I figure if I can get a speed loader for the revolver I decide on then it will even the playing field at least a little. Plus I forgot which shop I was in in which they also leaned toward a revolver by informing me that with a semi auto you are only guaranteed your first shot. After that there is the possibility of a jam or a mis feed which you have to clear before getting a second shot off. With a revolver just pull the trigger again as 99% of the time with a misfire? it is due to a bad ammo as opposed to gun malfunction. Was that sound advice or was I misinformed on that?

This forum is very friendly. Thank You.

The wife how ever who has never fired a shot does want a semi auto because she says that the revolvers are to bulky.

Robert, starting out with a revolver is not a bad way to go. They are less failure prone than semi-autos. Just pull the trigger again. As David said above, I'd go with a .357 magnum which you can also put .38 special and .38 spcl +P in. I'd also stick with Smith & Wesson or Ruger. My only concern with revolvers is capacity and on reloading in the heat of battle. But then I think statistics show most encounters are over in less than 6 rounds. FWIW. Good luck!

[DaveTN]

But I figure if I can get a speed loader for the revolver I decide on then it will even the playing field at least a little.

Speed loaders are for competition; not for carry. You won’t carry them. They are big, clumsy, slow, and no matter what kind you use the rounds can fall out unless you wear a speed loader pouch. I know; I both carried them on duty and used them in competition.

The chances of you getting a chance to reload are rare. Don’t count on the act of reloading to make up for caliber or capacity.

The problem is she is only 5' tall and maybe 100lbs. Her wrists are very fine boned (and have been injured many times) and she is afraid that the higher calibers will hurt or even break her wrists from the kick.

Then I would suggest she try a J-Frame S&W with .38’s.

Steel or stainless steel. Not aluminum, Titanium, Scandium or unknownium…. Steel.

The weapon will be heavier, but the recoil will be less.

If she wants a semi-auto that’s good, But a semi-auto you can trust your life to that is low cost is rare; one that is smaller than a 9mm is nonexistent. You can get some quality semi-autos in the $500 price range.

Sorry… but I just think her chances of survival in a robbery attempt are better not having a gun than pulling one that won’t work or only wounds the bad guy.

[RobertY]

Thanks I will research that model.

[Mike.357]

gotta agree with DaveTN about caliber choices.

A .22 or .25 make very poor primary defense weapons. Both have little to no stopping power, especially on a motivated criminal. They should not be a consideration for this purpose.

[Mike]

If she wants a semi-auto that’s good, But a semi-auto you can trust your life to that is low cost is rare; one that is smaller than a 9mm is nonexistent. You can get some quality semi-autos in the $500 price range.

You could look at the ruger lcp. It is a small semi auto pistol with manageable recoil that won't break the bank. Around $350. It is a .380 which is just a 9mm short. Plenty capable of inflicting a stop shot at conflict distance.

Mike

Edited June 20, 2010 by Mike

[RobertY]

Mike how easy is the slide to rack on the ruger lcp?

[BrasilNuts]

sounds like a not so pleasurable experience.

Now if things are equal I recommend you go see Mike at Austins TN Firearms in Oak Ridge. They are great people and will be very patient with you.

Mike also teaches NRA Basic Pistol and along with that you take the HCP course. I can't stress enough to get some training. Being relatively new to guns ( and your wife a gun virgin) the Basic Pistol course is a no brainer.

This is almost word for word what I was going to say. Mike is a great guy and he'll treat you right.

[Guest BEARMAN]

Robert, for your wife, I would consider looking into the Kel-Tec line of small semi-auto pistols, such as the P-32 (.32 acp) or the P-3AT (.380 acp) as they are super good American made pistols with a second to none warrenty dept.

Good used ones will go for $200. to $250. and the slide is very easy to rack and they are lighter and as small as the Taurus PT-22. IMO.

As for you, Robert, I would look into the new models of the Charter Arms line of .357 magnum offerings. They too, are American made and are a good value for the money handgun.

I have owned several, and have two of them now, and haven't had a problem with either.

They can be had used for around $250. to $300. range, and should serve you well.

Edited June 20, 2010 by BEARMAN

[Mike]

Mike how easy is the slide to rack on the ruger lcp?

I find it quite easy. But that's not what we're after. From all the ones I've sold at the shop most women even those with fragile wrists could rack it easily with some practice and the correct technique.

That said, it is a semi auto and should be carried with one in the chamber. So if the shtf with your wife she shouldn't have to worry about racking the slide before handling business. She should be able to simply draw and fire.

Mike

[bubbiesdad]

sounds like a not so pleasurable experience.

Now if things are equal I recommend you go see Mike at Austins TN Firearms in Oak Ridge. They are great people and will be very patient with you.

Mike also teaches NRA Basic Pistol and along with that you take the HCP course. I can't stress enough to get some training. Being relatively new to guns ( and your wife a gun virgin) the Basic Pistol course is a no brainer.

just my two cents.

Don't get discouraged by any of it. This is a terrible addiction you are getting involved in

Plus, Austin's has a 90 day layaway.

[RobertY]

I am getting confused again. LOL! Looks like we will have no choice but to go to a range that also rents fire arms to try different things out.

The price range of everything that we are looking to stay in is in the $200.00 to $250.00 range. We will just have to get them one at a time. But HER first.

[bubbiesdad]

I am getting confused again. LOL! Looks like we will have no choice but to go to a range that also rents fire arms to try different things out.

The price range of everything that we are looking to stay in is in the $200.00 to $250.00 range. We will just have to get them one at a time. But HER first.

This is pretty close to you.

Coal Creek Armory Indoor Shooting Range

[jeremy155rr]

First place visited. Farnsworth in Vonore. Result: left there ticked off and feeling like a moron.

Reason: Explained everything like mentioned above so the guy knew we knew almost nothing. He was an older on the thin side man.

I won't encourage you to give any business to Farnsworth after your last experience, but yes, that guy is a butthead. He always talks to people like that, and always acts that way. There are three people there all the time (usually) Robert, Robert Jr., and that skinny butthole. He humors me and I never talk to him unless I have to, the Roberts are incredibly nice and the owners btw, don't know what the old skinny guys relation is to them. They handle all my transfers for me due to the fact that its 10min from my house. The guys at Bills Outpost are incredibly nice and i'll go out of my way to do business with them. I don't know what supporting vendors are on here from this side of the state except for Austins and PDO, the guys at Austins were nice and i've never been to PDO.

[towerclimber37]

Robert, if you were closer to Kingsport, I'd invite you and your wife to come up and shoot a couple of my pistols (or my wife's) and try them out. She has a .380, and a .38 pistol that are very agreeable to follks. I have 9mm's and a few others that you might like.

If you guys ever find yourself up near Kingsport or Bristol, let us know before you come I'll make a point to invite ya.

I have to agree about Mike and Austins'.

Great people to work with and Mike is a very good teacher. I know, he ran me and my wife through the handgun carry course.