Immigration problem?!

[Ebow1]

Although I'm guessing he would technically still be holding it.

[Guest mosinon]

WE, as in American Citizens, are have made this problem much worse. Fact is, WE created it. Illegal aliens are the best thing since slavery when it comes to cheap labor.

American citizens HIRE them for CASH so they can get their stuff done cheaper than hiring American citizens. Not only does that keep them here, and brings more in every day, it adds to the number of folks below the poverty line. They can't live here with zero income.

I'm not making excuses for the illegals. But, until we stop hiring (feeding) them, they're going to keep coming. Sometimes you can't seal the cracks in your house enough to keep roaches out. You have to eliminate the food source. We need to throw a few WHITE folks in jail for awhile. There should be a stiff penalty for hiring illegals IF we really want them gone. The big problem is... a lot of Americans don't want them gone, because they don't want to pay a fair wage.

They won't stop coming when we stop "letting" them in. They'll stop coming when we stop inviting them.

FWIW, uppity Mexican attitudes boil my blood. I'm certainly not going to hire any of them. I'll cut my own grass first.

That seems right to me. Though if you aren't cutting your own grass, you've got too much grass

I suspect that if one looks at the statistics illegal immigration has gone down since the recession hit.

When I'm buying cheap vegetables it really doesn't bother me but when I stop to think about those that jump through the hoops to legally immigrate it does bother me.

All that said, economic growth is mostly predicated (in the US) on population growth. Everyone likes it when the economy grows so I doubt anything serious will be done about the issue.

[MCSCOTT]

WE, as in American Citizens, are have made this problem much worse. Fact is, WE created it. Illegal aliens are the best thing since slavery when it comes to cheap labor.

American citizens HIRE them for CASH so they can get their stuff done cheaper than hiring American citizens. Not only does that keep them here, and brings more in every day, it adds to the number of folks below the poverty line. They can't live here with zero income.

I'm not making excuses for the illegals. But, until we stop hiring (feeding) them, they're going to keep coming. Sometimes you can't seal the cracks in your house enough to keep roaches out. You have to eliminate the food source. We need to throw a few WHITE folks in jail for awhile. There should be a stiff penalty for hiring illegals IF we really want them gone. The big problem is... a lot of Americans don't want them gone, because they don't want to pay a fair wage.

They won't stop coming when we stop "letting" them in. They'll stop coming when we stop inviting them.

FWIW, uppity Mexican attitudes boil my blood. I'm certainly not going to hire any of them. I'll cut my own grass first.

I agree with all of that, and since the problem just keeps growing in this country I personally think that anyone who hires an illegal should be stripped of their citizenship and forced to leave this country. Again I will say that things will only get worse until the punishments for certain crimes get more harsh in this country.

[TomR]

This country does not have a shortage of illiterate, unskilled, non-english speaking labor. If there are jobs that are not being filled because Americans are not willing to do them, one of two things will happen. Wages will be raised to attract American workers or technology will be developed that will replace unskilled labor. We should encourage legal immigration of individuals who meet a need. That is, those who are skilled, educated and who want to be Americans.

[Guest KimberChick]

This country does not have a shortage of illiterate, unskilled, non-english speaking labor. If there are jobs that are not being filled because Americans are not willing to do them, one of two things will happen. Wages will be raised to attract American workers or technology will be developed that will replace unskilled labor. We should encourage legal immigration of individuals who meet a need. That is, those who are skilled, educated and who want to be Americans.

Hence why I'd like to broker a trade agreement. We'll take your immigrants so long as we can trade 1:1 for our govt. cheese slackers. One gains citizenship provided they work(i.e. become contributing citizens) while the other loses it for sitting on their behinds collecting tax money and being un-American in doing so. They ain't got satellite tv and air conditioning in Guatemala baby! Off the dole or GTFO! haha.

2 birds, 1 stone. If only it could be so simple.

[mikegideon]

I agree with all of that, and since the problem just keeps growing in this country I personally think that anyone who hires an illegal should be stripped of their citizenship and forced to leave this country. Again I will say that things will only get worse until the punishments for certain crimes get more harsh in this country.

And where are they gonna go. AFAIK, this is the one of the few countries you can just sneak into and put down roots. They just need to fine them. I'm talking big enough fines to offset the labor savings.

Problem is, some of the folks that scream the loudest about illegals are the same ones that will go get a pickup truck load of them when they need them. As with all things, it's really about the money.

[E4 No More]

I don't have any problem with legal immigration. That is how our ancestors got here. The rest are breaking the law and our government is allowing it while looking for the opportunity to allow them to become legal and give them benefits that will only make them legal leeches on our society.

Tell that to the Native Americans.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Problem is, some of the folks that scream the loudest about illegals are the same ones that will go get a pickup truck load of them when they need them. As with all things, it's really about the money.

Link?

[mikegideon]

Link?

Personal experience. $3.5M Commercial construction project. My project. The GC did it a couple of times to meet labor/budget/timeline constraints. The project manager is a good friend of mine. I can call his cell phone right now and get him on a rant about illegals within 2 minutes. Doesn't mean the budget and timeline aren't still sacred.

You may not always agree with me Suntzu, but I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Personal experience. $3.5M Commercial construction project. My project. The GC did it a couple of times to meet labor/budget/timeline constraints. The project manager is a good friend of mine. I can call his cell phone right now and get him on a rant about illegals within 2 minutes. Doesn't mean the budget and timeline aren't still sacred.

You may not always agree with me Suntzu, but I'm not gonna lie to you.

Not saying you were lying, Mike, I just wanted to know who was busted if it was in the paper. I do not care for illegal immigrants. You can either become a citizen or get a temporary work visa. But why bother when you can stroll across the border, and hell, get paid to do that if you don't mind strapping this bale of marijuana to your back. Burns my biscuits. I make a point of shouting La Migre (Immigration) anytime I see them lurking around Home Depot or Lowe's.

[mikegideon]

Not saying you were lying, Mike, I just wanted to know who was busted if it was in the paper. I do not care for illegal immigrants. You can either become a citizen or get a temporary work visa. But why bother when you can stroll across the border, and hell, get paid to do that if you don't mind strapping this bale of marijuana to your back. Burns my biscuits. I make a point of shouting La Migre (Immigration) anytime I see them lurking around Home Depot or Lowe's.

I don't like them either, but this was an especially gnarly project (is there any other kind?). Coming out of the ground with a bunch of structural concrete. Had a permit to close the street (Music row) to accomodate all the trucks, and it looked like it was going to fly apart. I was really pushing them because we had like 2-3 weeks of slip already.

He sez, "I'm gonna go get some Mexicans". I sez, "By all means".

[Guest SUNTZU]

I don't like them either, but this was an especially gnarly project (is there any other kind?). Coming out of the ground with a bunch of structural concrete. Had a permit to close the street (Music row) to accomodate all the trucks, and it looked like it was going to fly apart. I was really pushing them because we had like 2-3 weeks of slip already.

He sez, "I'm gonna go get some Mexicans". I sez, "By all means".

Was the formwork failing or just schedule slip? Either way, it sounds like your GC didn't keep a firm hold on the project. Were the Mexicans carpenters or just concrete placers/finishers? Not that it really matters, since the project is obviously completed long ago, but Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance and all that.

[mikegideon]

Was the formwork failing or just schedule slip? Either way, it sounds like your GC didn't keep a firm hold on the project. Were the Mexicans carpenters or just concrete placers/finishers? Not that it really matters, since the project is obviously completed long ago, but Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance and all that.

It was slip up against a big post tension slab pour. Not everything was under their control, like all the mud seams they hit when digging the columns. Not saying their planning was the best, but it wasn't a hack outfit either. I could name some of their projects if this wasn't confession time

They were just labor. Lots of grunt work when you're making parking garages from scratch. Also used a few to man the cable tensioning jacks. Note that I wasn't actually affiliated with the construction company. I was running the job for the building owner.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Sounds like caisson work. Mud seams are a booger unless you have a good man who knows what he is looking at checking the bottom of the holes. That is LOTS of fun. I went down a 120' hole to check one out at UTK. Pretty neat. It doesn't have to be a hack outfit, just a project manager who went too lean or had too little oversight/input from the rest of the team. Happens all the time in construction. Except for me, cause I'm bad, like Jesse James.

[mikegideon]

Sounds like caisson work. Mud seams are a booger unless you have a good man who knows what he is looking at checking the bottom of the holes. That is LOTS of fun. I went down a 120' hole to check one out at UTK. Pretty neat. It doesn't have to be a hack outfit, just a project manager who went too lean or had too little oversight/input from the rest of the team. Happens all the time in construction. Except for me, cause I'm bad, like Jesse James.

Middle Tennessee. We had to hammer the rock out for the bottom slab. So the whole thing was sitting on rock. We just needed X feet of seemless rock before we could set the column anchors. Some holes were 3' deep, and one was over 12. We had a great project manager (my buddy), and the superintendent for the structural side was great too. It was just weeks with a rock hammer (actually a few).

[Guest SUNTZU]

Middle Tennessee. We had to hammer the rock out for the bottom slab. So the whole thing was sitting on rock. We just needed X feet of seemless rock before we could set the column anchors. Some holes were 3' deep, and one was over 12. We had a great project manager (my buddy), and the superintendent for the structural side was great too. It was just weeks with a rock hammer (actually a few).

And lots of BC powder. Rock hammers suck. I think there is definitely an art to busting rock with a rock hammer. Kind of like a sculptor with his chisel. You can pound incessantly or see where the rock is liable to crack.

[mikegideon]

And lots of BC powder. Rock hammers suck. I think there is definitely an art to busting rock with a rock hammer. Kind of like a sculptor with his chisel. You can pound incessantly or see where the rock is liable to crack.

Damn, we did it again! Forgot all about the Mexicans . Guess I don't have to tell you why they had them manning the tensioning jacks. I assume you're familiar with post tension construction

[MCSCOTT]

And where are they gonna go. AFAIK, this is the one of the few countries you can just sneak into and put down roots. They just need to fine them. I'm talking big enough fines to offset the labor savings.

Problem is, some of the folks that scream the loudest about illegals are the same ones that will go get a pickup truck load of them when they need them. As with all things, it's really about the money.

Yeah the biggest problem would be that there's no where we could just send them. No matter how much a fine is, that's only a small punishment to alot of the people that hire illegals, and will just force them to use them that much more in order to make up for having to pay the fine. Alot of folks would consider jail time for these employers to be harsh as well, but I personally don't think it would be punishment enough either with the current state of our court system. In the end they would spend a day in jail maybe and be back in business again, and once again forced to hire more illegals to offset the cost of their punishment. Even if the punishment was that they lose their business and are never allowed to operate a business in this country again, there would still be no way of enforcing that judging by the way things usually go in this country.

Maybe we should just start executing those that hire illegals......

[Guest SUNTZU]

Damn, we did it again! Forgot all about the Mexicans . Guess I don't have to tell you why they had them manning the tensioning jacks. I assume you're familiar with post tension construction

I never forget about Mexicans. I only keep legal workers on the jobsites.

[mikegideon]

I never forget about Mexicans. I only keep legal workers on the jobsites.

I hope there are a lot of guys like you these days. The story I told was from several years back, before the immigration issue got so loud.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I hope there are a lot of guys like you these days. The story I told was from several years back, before the immigration issue got so loud.

Well, laws have changed and they are enforced. Most workers on job sites, especially in economies like this, are quick to turn illegals and those who hire them in. I'm all for it. I had two tile setters on my last job who are here legally. They were pissed off at illegals more than anyone I've ever met.

[mikegideon]

Well, laws have changed and they are enforced. Most workers on job sites, especially in economies like this, are quick to turn illegals and those who hire them in. I'm all for it. I had two tile setters on my last job who are here legally. They were pissed off at illegals more than anyone I've ever met.

Got no problem with the legal ones. In general, some hard working folks. I figured it had tightened up by now. It's been awhile since I've been involved in any big construction.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Got no problem with the legal ones. In general, some hard working folks. I figured it had tightened up by now. It's been awhile since I've been involved in any big construction.

Just saw this elsewhere...

YouTube - We Can Help! - Secretary Solis :30 PSA

"Get your money whether you are documented or not."

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Another fine example of government gone amuck. I saw that a few minutes ago on the news.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

WTF?! WHETHER DOCUMENTED OR NOT?! SEND THEM THE PISS HOME! DAMN!