Problems with those that carry in a restaurant?

[JayC]

Gun Facts 5.1:

Fact: 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person.

Note that figure is all citzens, not just those who have a HCP, and means some likely have much less range time than your average TN HCP holder.

Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America

by Professor Gary Kleck (a liberal Democrat, and member of the ACLU and Common Cause)

The odds of a defensive gun user accidentally killing an innocent person are less than 1 in 26,000.

The Gun Facts is the current version, although the referenced study is from the mid 1990's... The Point Blank book is also from the mid 1990's but the data used for the 1 in 26,000 is from 1979-1985.

I'm not aware of any other studies on point which are more recent.

I don't know the answer, either nationally or locally, but anecdotally, I'm an avid newswatcher, and I can remember only 2 locally that had negative attention in the last few years. one was a guy getting robbed outside a store at Rivergate mall, and he hit an innocent bystander when returning fire at a robber. Cant remember if he was charged though...the other was a guy in Antioch that had a business...he shot and killed a robber one time, and then another time he chased a robber out of a business and was shooting at them as they left....seems he took some criticizm at least on the second incident. I think i remember the report saying the police said he was not in danger and shouldnt have tried preventing the bad guy from leaving. I think he was charged in that one.

Also, as far as LEOs is concerned, it is NOT LEO bashing to admit that they are also poorly practiced on average. and the FBI has even recently released a report that states that on average, the typical street thug is more practiced in street shooting AND MORE ACCURATE than is the average cop. I think that report, or a link to it was posted on this forum several months ago.

I think the bottom line here, is that the Rayburns are simply cowards in trying to get the law to do for them what they lack the courage to do for themselves. If it was JUST a matter of him feeling that strongly,m he would just post his places, despite the possible loss of patronage that that might incur. instead, he tries ot make all his competitors post as well.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

will never sleep with my sister.

My question to you....

Do you have a hott sister?

[Red Haired Girl]

Quick example: If I or anyone else is out with their family, happen to be carrying and can sit down to dinner at a place without taking it off or leaving it in the car, OCing probably is just as good as any "shoot-me-first vest" anyhow... but it's out there and the waitress and maybe the family next to you/me can be reasonbly sure she doesn't serve us 14 tequila shots...

You have a HCP and are carrying in the above scenario. What are you doing drinking Tequila?

If you are not drinking Tequila, then what is the point of this thread? You would be sober and in control of your emotions and faculties and firearm.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Red Haired Girl

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

You have a HCP and are carrying in the above scenario. What are you doing drinking Tequila?

We live in TN? What are you doing drinking Tequila?!

[titan14]

You have a HCP and are carrying in the above scenario. What are you doing drinking Tequila?

pay no attention to the CK1...he knows not what he means....or what he's talking about...

[Red Haired Girl]

pay no attention to the CK1...he knows not what he means....or what he's talking about...

Well alrighty then!

[VERO1]

Tell your girlfriend Happy Birthday for me, inspite of this thread explosion!

[titan14]

Well alrighty then!

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Tell your girlfriend Happy Birthday for me, inspite of this thread explosion!

Thanks. I will

[Guest m&pc9]

Thank you for lumping me in with the bubbas.

I am an adult, tax paying American. I should be able to carry my weapon anywhere I want to go.

[bubbadavis]

Thank you for lumping me in with the bubbas.

I am an adult, tax paying American. I should be able to carry my weapon anywhere I want to go.

Hey, wait a minute, I am one of those Bubbas! But I'm also an adult, tax paying American...

[Guest m&pc9]

Hey, wait a minute, I am one of those Bubbas! But I'm also an adult, tax paying American...

I didn't mean any disrespect to the bubbas out there.

[bubbadavis]

I didn't mean any disrespect to the bubbas out there.

None taken - I've been Bubba for 30+ years.

Now, if you called me a yankee...

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

None taken

If only everyone else had this view... Sadly, some, wear feelings on their fingertips.

[BrasilNuts]

I'd tend to lien towards Randy's conclusion too I guess...

Because he has an itty bitty... Because he believes that he has superior intelligence, and is really too stupid...

That's all I have to say about that... BUUUUBBAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Ae-35]

Don't you rely on the judgment of others every time you pull your car out into traffic? I usually agree with your posts CK, but if you don't like our backwoods ways, you can always move to Chicago or DC. I hear that they are all educated, enlightened and has no need or use for firearms.

Amen.

[Guest 270win]

I have been carrying a handgun since I was 18...which is very legal in Arkansas when i was traveling or in the woods without a license....and at times I did so in other states when I felt the need.

I didn't mess with getting a concealed handgun license (that's what they're called in AR) until I had to go to TN a lot and wanted to be 'legal' with a loaded pistol in my car and when I wanted to carry it in the 'hood' of Memphis. I honestly looked at getting a license as a total joke and just as a way to keep from getting fined in Tennessee if caught carrying illegally...it cost me 250 bucks to get legal. I then had to pay another 50 bucks when I moved to TN to get a TN permit.

I think it is silly to think that I am not competent enough to carry in a place that serves liquor after paying a good chunk of money to two different states to be 'legal' in the eyes of the law, qualifying for the AR State Police's instructor on a range with an autopistol(required if i carried one), filling out 10 pages of notarized CRAP for AR State Police, fingerprint cards for ASP and FBI, signing a medical release to ASP...etc. I could buy guns without a 'TICS/NICS' check in Arkansas.

I have no idea what the intial steps are like in TN...but i got checked out pretty good in Arkansas...and am competent enough to carry a handgun wherever I please without anyone's permission anymore....heck I could have a drink with my dinner in Arkansas when carrying!

[Guest Bonedaddy]

Guess my point is, I'm all for legal carry in restaurants/bars, but think it comes down to a question of peoples right to not have to rely on other's judgment whether they like it or not...

Quick example: If I or anyone else is out with their family, happen to be carrying and can sit down to dinner at a place without taking it off or leaving it in the car, OCing probably is just as good as any "shoot-me-first vest" anyhow... but it's out there and the waitress and maybe the family next to you/me can be reasonbly sure she doesn't serve us 14 tequila shots...

Now if I was at the Flying Saucer having some drinks with friends and I saw a weirdo looking dude with a Draco hanging at the end of the bar at 12:30am I'd also want to be able to notice that and maybe find the valet...

It's tricky.

Fella, when you walk out the door in the morning or especially when you get into your car, you are relying on other people's judgment. You are far more likely to get injured or killed by someone's bad judgment in a moving vehicle than someone's weapon. I worry about to and from an establishment. Not in it. You just sound like a nervous ninnie to me.

[Punisher84]

Please do not engage in personal attacks or name calling.

Warning given...

Check. Sorry bout that. Rough day and this drivel rubbed me wrong.

My question to you....

Do you have a hott sister?

Actually I don't even have a sister...lol

[Guest Ae-35]

Ck1, I respect your right to express YOUR opinion. You do realize, you just insulted every HCP holder (us) on this forum by say WE have no self-control, (can't refrain from drinking) and our marksmanship! Not Cool !!!

[Guest truthsayer]

Well, that's a separate and unrelated argument as far as I'm concerned.

As a former bar/restaurant investor/owner, allowing guns alongside alcohol in establishments located in a state where a large portion of the residents think it's just fine to spend thousands on lift-kits and wheels for trucks they'll never take off-road in leu of things like higher education, or where seeing 20k+ bass boats parked right next to doublewides in leu of moving their families to better homes is common-place, I'd tend to lien towards Randy's conclusion too I guess... seeing as so many of the firearms owners who are so into the debate spend far more on their toy collection than on actual practice-ammo , I'm kind of fine with it actually, hate to get hit by a stray bullet while sipping on a cold Stella after a couple good ol' boys get into it after arguing over whether Hank Jr. is better than Jerry Reed or not...

Having a good time and enjoying some good food isn't dependent on whether I'm heeled or not to me. To each his own...

First things first. Jerry was a picker and Hank was a songwriter.... there's no comparison.

Secondly, the tactic of marginalizing a demographic and dismissing it wholesale based on poor assumptions is a tactic the left has used for generations. I doubt it will fly here. I read your other posts and, while you may feel as if the others in your squad during matches might not be competent, I've shot enough matches to tell you that all demographics have crappy shooters just like all demographics have crappy drivers. Google "prior restraint" and get back to me.

[Guest truthsayer]

I'd also like to add that there are plenty of places that post if you're genuinely concerned about lawful carriers.

[Guest CK1]

You guys do realize that I never even meant to start a thread like this, it was moved here and was maybe a decent topic to talk about breifly earlier today when the mood was lighter, but at this point the discussion is pointless... I have my opinion, obviously it's not a popular one, that's great, to each his own. Attacking my opinion and attempting to overtly insult me while trying to be clever doesn't make for a very interesting discussion IMO so I'd prefer to end it.

Not everyone sees things the same way and there's no such thing as Santa Claus either, oh well, guess we'll all just have to get over it.

Guys getting bent out of shape over the fact that I'm somehow insulting them by disagreeing with them should really chill out.

Edited June 16, 2010 by CK1

[Punisher84]

You guys do realize that I never even meant to start a thread like this, it was moved here and was maybe a decent topic to talk about breifly earlier today when the mood was lighter, but at this point the discussion is pointless... I have my opinion, obviously it's not a popular one, that's great, to each his own. Attacking my opinion and attempting to overtly insult me while trying to be clever doesn't make for a very interesting discussion IMO so I'd prefer to end it.

Not everyone sees things the same way and there's no such thing as Santa Claus either, oh well, guess we'll all just have to get over it.

Guys getting bent out of shape over the fact that I'm somehow insulting them by disagreeing with them should really chill out.

Or maybe you should realize you took a whiz on the wrong set of boots with a poorly thought out post?

[Guest CK1]

Or maybe you should realize you took a whiz on the wrong set of boots with a poorly thought out post?

Yeah, guess so.