Problems with those that carry in a restaurant?

[Guest CK1]

Owned by Randy Rayburn, who fought vehemently against our right to carry firearms in restaurants.

Well, that's a separate and unrelated argument as far as I'm concerned.

As a former bar/restaurant investor/owner, allowing guns alongside alcohol in establishments located in a state where a large portion of the residents think it's just fine to spend thousands on lift-kits and wheels for trucks they'll never take off-road in leu of things like higher education, or where seeing 20k+ bass boats parked right next to doublewides in leu of moving their families to better homes is common-place, I'd tend to lien towards Randy's conclusion too I guess... seeing as so many of the firearms owners who are so into the debate spend far more on their toy collection than on actual practice-ammo , I'm kind of fine with it actually, hate to get hit by a stray bullet while sipping on a cold Stella after a couple good ol' boys get into it after arguing over whether Hank Jr. is better than Jerry Reed or not...

Having a good time and enjoying some good food isn't dependent on whether I'm heeled or not to me. To each his own...

[mikegideon]

Well, that's a separate and unrelated argument as far as I'm concerned.

As a former bar/restaurant investor/owner, allowing guns alongside alcohol in establishments located in a state where a large portion of the residents think it's just fine to spend thousands on lift-kits and wheels for trucks they'll never take off-road in leu of things like higher education, or where seeing 20k+ bass boats parked right next to doublewides in leu of moving their families to better homes is common-place, I'd tend to lien towards Randy's conclusion too I guess... seeing as so many of the firearms owners who are so into the debate spend far more on their toy collection than on actual practice-ammo , I'm kind of fine with it actually, hate to get hit by a stray bullet while sipping on a cold Stella after a couple good ol' boys get into it after arguing over whether Hank Jr. is better than Jerry Reed or not...

Having a good time and enjoying some good food isn't dependent on whether I'm heeled or not to me. To each his own...

And, which one of us Bubbas do you think is gonna get drunk and shoot you?

[Guest clownsdd]

+10 mike

[Guest CK1]

And, which one of us Bubbas do you think is gonna get drunk and shoot you?

Look, my point is, I wouldn't trust half the guys who shot this past weekends IDPA match to take a shot inside an even semi-crowded restaurant and not hit some bystander by accident, and these are of the small cross-section of the CCing population who are actually putting forth the effort to gain some experience shooting simulated real-world related scenarios and are usually already better than most gunowners/CCers if only just by showing up...

If you had to qualify or pass a special level of competence in order to earn the right to carry in a bar/restaurant then I'd be all for it, but since the overwhelming majority of gunowners out there can't hit the side of a barn yet can still easily get their HCP, I'm very weary of it... not worried about the BG, worried about someone's daughter/son/mother/etc behind them...

Sorry for going off-topic, just putting it out there that the gap between the level of responsibility required and what's commonplace is vast and people do stupid s**t all the time, IMO at some point you've got to have some faith in the laws in place and the LEO's to handle their business, fists aren't posted and...

I'd add that I'd see the issue differently if they changed it to require you to OC in a restaurant/bar, for me that would be a fair compromise.

Edited June 15, 2010 by CK1

[mikegideon]

Look, my point is, I wouldn't trust half the guys who shot this past weekends IDPA match to take a shot inside an even semi-crowded restaurant and not hit some bystander by accident... .

Good point CK. Sorry Jason. Randy can still kiss my old butt.

What about a hotel? A lot have party rooms for rent.

[Fallguy]

This thread was started to allow continued discussion on a topic that was off-topin in another thread... (http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/general-off-topic/41595-good-place-have-party-nashville.html)

[Fallguy]

Well whether one chooses to support a business owner that was opposed to pro-carry legislation may be a seperate issue but it is a worth mentioning when someone is looking to do business with someone.

Why support those (if you have a choice) that don't support your viewpoint?

I really can't tell for sure what your problem is.....

If it is carry in crowded places...that could be practically any public place, not just resturants, whether or not the serve alcohol.

It for sure sounds like you have a problem with people who may not spend their money wisely and/or bubbas/rednecks.....but that doesn't necessarly have anything to do with their ability to use a firearm.

Some wanted resturant carry so they could be armed to and from the resturant and/or not have to leave it in the car...not necessarly planning on opening up fire in a crowded place or without a clear target.

If you have faith in the laws....the law forbids those armed to consume.

LEOs have not duty to protect you and may or may not be any more qualified with their firearm as HCP holder.

How in the world would OC change any of this?

[Guest CK1]

No dispespect meant with the "Bubba-isms", feel free to replace them with "FakeRapper-isms", "Hipster-isms" or whatever...

I guess I have kind of a "hot-range vs. cold-range" attitude about the whole thing. Carrying a firearm requires a high-level of responsibility anywhere, but whether or not other citizens around you in a restaurant/bar setting are willing to shoulder some of that responsibility is really where the debate lies, some may prefer something closer to a cold-range policy...

Now if it was required to OC but otherwise ok to remain "hot", I'd be fine with it, as it would demand that anyone carrying be up to the responsibility of conducting themselves accordingly while carrying a loaded weapon in a public place and everyone would know it, and if someone found they felt uncomfortable around any firearms they'd have a choice to leave if they wished, I think most people would be not very put off and then it'd be no big deal... no problem.

[strickj]

Well whether one chooses to support a business owner that was opposed to pro-carry legislation may be a seperate issue but it is a worth mentioning when someone is looking to do business with someone.

Why support those (if you have a choice) that don't support your viewpoint?

I really can't tell for sure what your problem is.....

If it is carry in crowded places...that could be practically any public place, not just resturants, whether or not the serve alcohol.

It for sure sounds like you have a problem with people who may not spend their money wisely and/or bubbas/rednecks.....but that doesn't necessarly have anything to do with their ability to use a firearm.

Some wanted resturant carry so they could be armed to and from the resturant and/or not have to leave it in the car...not necessarly planning on opening up fire in a crowded place or without a clear target.

If you have faith in the laws....the law forbids those armed to consume.

LEOs have not duty to protect you and may or may not be any more qualified with their firearm as HCP holder.

How in the world would OC change any of this?

I also don't see how one can not trust another based on how money is spent.

Maybe I wanna spend my money on my car instead of my home. So ****ing what! That does not make me unsafe with a firearm.

I challenge you, CK, to find one article where spending habits are related to gun safety\accidents.

[JAB]

LEOs have not duty to protect you and may or may not be any more qualified with their firearm as HCP holder.

Hell, I'd bet that those 'Bubbas' mentioned earlier put a heck of a lot more rounds downrange than do at least some LEOs. Further, what does the vehicle someone drives, the home in which someone lives or even educational level have to do with how well one can handle a firearm? Sounds pretty elitist, to me. By that logic, you'd expect Obama (who graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School, rides in a Presidential limo and lives in the White House) to be one heck of a shot, huh?

[DWARREN123]

Your opinion and your right to it. I believe that when I carry it is to protect me and mine and not for a shoot out but I will do what is needed to protect me and mine.

I can not see taking of someones right(s) because of something I think, not seen any numbers on this where bubba is more likely to hit a bystander than you or any comp shooter or even LEO's!

Being a great shooter doesn't mean crap, if you don't believe me try it in combat or any where your life is on the line.

[Erik88]

here is the deal. If you go back and look at that map in the other thread and see how many states already allow carry where alcohol is served, you can see that if there were a large amount of problems caused by it then we would hear about it all the time.

Get over it, it's not going to be a problem....

[Erik88]

and I don't think many people carry are as worried about a shoot out in a restaurant as they are getting robbed to or from there car.

I've said this in other threads. I work in a restaurant that was robbed at gun point by 2 thugs late one night about a year ago. This new law is a blessing for people such as myself.

[Guest CK1]

Guess my point is, I'm all for legal carry in restaurants/bars, but think it comes down to a question of peoples right to not have to rely on other's judgment whether they like it or not...

Quick example: If I or anyone else is out with their family, happen to be carrying and can sit down to dinner at a place without taking it off or leaving it in the car, OCing probably is just as good as any "shoot-me-first vest" anyhow... but it's out there and the waitress and maybe the family next to you/me can be reasonbly sure she doesn't serve us 14 tequila shots...

Now if I was at the Flying Saucer having some drinks with friends and I saw a weirdo looking dude with a Draco hanging at the end of the bar at 12:30am I'd also want to be able to notice that and maybe find the valet...

It's tricky.

[JAB]

I also have to wonder how eating in a crowded Cracker Barrel - or shopping in a crowded Walmart, for that matter - while armed and not consuming alcohol is any different from eating in a crowded O'Charley's while armed and not consuming alcohol. There are plenty of 'weird looking dudes' everywhere. So, are you saying that only OC should be allowed anywhere in public? Are you saying that the weird looking dude - if he is a danger - is somehow more dangerous at Applebee's than at Krogers?

Edited June 15, 2010 by JAB

[Fallguy]

So what was your problem with someone pointing out the business you suggested was the person that fought so hard against resturant carry?

Many on here may choose not to do business with him or others like him.

[Guest CK1]

So what was your problem with someone pointing out the business you suggested was the person that fought so hard against resturant carry?

Many on here may choose not to do business with him or others like him.

I see that. That's perfectly understandable.

Well, good info to have, as while it may not affect my decisions either way, if I was to go there and by chance meet the man I'd see if I could discuss it with him and possibly broaden his view somewhat, many actively anti-gun people feel differently about OC vs. CC, from a business owners point of view the issue looks quite different.

[Guest GT_Rat]

I'll never understand why people think that the vicinity of alcohol is going to make people suddenly lose all sense of good judgment. You do realize you have to actually drink alcohol before it affects you right?

The people that are going to go into a restaurant and drink while armed are the same people that are going to carry, concealed or otherwise, regardless of permit or law allowing/disallowing "guns in bars."

The state trusts you (and me) to carry a loaded weapon almost anywhere and everywhere. We go into grocery stores, gas stations, liquor stores, and our own homes, where alcohol is present virtually on a daily basis. Why is it that a restaurant or bar is somehow going to make us go off the deep end and get drunk and shoot up the place when all these other places where we have equal or greater access (if you consider the ludicrous markup of alcohol in bars/restaurants) to alcohol do not?

[JReedEsq]

Guess my point is, I'm all for legal carry in restaurants/bars, but think it comes down to a question of peoples right to not have to rely on other's judgment

Don't you rely on the judgment of others every time you pull your car out into traffic? I usually agree with your posts CK, but if you don't like our backwoods ways, you can always move to Chicago or DC. I hear that they are all educated, enlightened and has no need or use for firearms.

[Guest CK1]

Don't you rely on the judgment of others every time you pull your car out into traffic? I usually agree with your posts CK, but if you don't like our backwoods ways, you can always move to Chicago or DC. I hear that they are all educated, enlightened and has no need or use for firearms.

Get over that redneck/yankee s**t, I already apologized if I hurt anyone's feelings, and was just kidding, no harm meant...

I'm not worried about the proximity of alcohol and firearms, I'm worried about drunken' idiots and their pension to do stupid things being in close proximity to firearms... some a-hole who's been drinking maybe starting some s**t with someone who hasn't been drinking but who's carrying, maybe throws a punch, maybe breaks a bottle...

Look, let it pass, I don't care either way honestly, won't affect me one bit. That is, until something happens and the first innocent bystander gets shot, somebody's daughter, maybe somebody's mom out having a good time, and suddenly the carry rights we already do have are under all out attack... that'll be great.

Edited June 15, 2010 by CK1

[D3vo]

CK1 -

It seems to me that you trust yourself to do the right thing (not drink and no gunfights), but that doesn't extend to others. I can understand that.

As for people who can't hit the broad side of a barn. I went to class with some of them

My feeling, which I hope is justified, is 99.9% of us understand our responsibilities to safety. Personally I agree with DWARREN123 it’s to protect me and mine. I have no interest in stopping a robbery in progress. I believe even in the protection of others you got to think my kid is here and make the decision that’s best for your family.

Good topic!

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I agree with CK, I was at a restaurant this past weekend and I don't drink but for some reason I'm guessing because I live in a double-wide and was carrying a gun concealed, I had to fight of the urge all night to get drunk and start shooting the place up. Thank god my wife who has graduated from college was there to talk me out of doing it....

[mikegideon]

CK, you didn't hurt my feelings at all, but you're thinking like an anti. Fallguy said it best. What is the difference between carrying concealed in a crowded Walmart, and carrying concealed in a restaurant? The decision on how to defend yourself in crowded places has been discussed many times. What difference does it make if you're surrounded by people that are drinking. You are in control of the gun.

[Fallguy]

I see that. That's perfectly understandable.

Well, good info to have, as while it may not affect my decisions either way, if I was to go there and by chance meet the man I'd see if I could discuss it with him and possibly broaden his view somewhat, many actively anti-gun people feel differently about OC vs. CC, from a business owners point of view the issue looks quite different.

If someone chooses not to let it affect their business decision...then by all means that is their choice.

I just don't think anyone on here should be surprised if someone else points out a business is owned by someone who is anti, let alone someone who actively lobbied against pro-carry legislation, who filed a lawsuit against a pro-carry law and especially someone that is Randy Rayburn.

[daddyo]

Look, let it pass, I don't care either way honestly, won't affect me one bit. That is, until something happens and the first innocent bystander gets shot, somebody's daughter, maybe somebody's mom out having a good time, and suddenly the carry rights we already do have are under all out attack... that'll be great.

We'll wait for you to find specific examples of this happening in the other 38 or so states that have had the legislation in place long enough for a similar scenario to play itself out. Even if you can't, then we're all ears as to how Tennessee will be any different.