My Custom AR15 Build Plan

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

My goal is to build a full length (a la M16 style) rifle. I want to do the majority of the assembly myself, but will not care if a few things come pre-assembled. I want this build to have quality parts and price is a non-issue! I will be buying parts as funds become available. I will not buy bargain bin parts from gun shows or else where. Only parts from reputable dealers and suppliers. I have a decent list of items I want to have, but I am open to suggestions that will make the rifle better in quality and durability. I would like to buy from local vendors where possible. Time frame of build, is to be determined by funds. I also apologize if this thread is posted in the wrong spot, mods please move if you need to.

Beginning of Incomplete List of Parts: Subject To Change

Upper Half

Brownells "We The People" Upper Receiver 080-000-847WB - $119.99

http://www.brownells...-UPPER-RECEIVER

AR-15 "Join or Die" 100-006-140WB Ejection Port Cover - $14.99

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=40362/avs|Make_3=M16/Product/AR-15-M16-AR-STYLE-308-ENGRAVED-EJECTION-PORT-COVERS

DPMS Mini SASS AR-15 Barrel 18" 1:8 Twist - $235.50

http://www.midwayusa...-teflon-pre-ban

Yankee Hill Machine Phantom 5.56mm 5C2 Comp/Flash Suppressor (YHM-28-5C2) - $32.00

http://yhm.net/index...products_id=101

Spike's Tactical M16 BCG Coated in Nickel Boron - $225.00

http://www.spikestac...-556-p-388.html

Bravo Company BCM AR15 Charging Handle - $22.95

AR-15 Charging Handle

Yankee Hill Machine Black Plated Gas Tubes Rifle (YHM-BL-04) - $17.50

http://yhm.net/index...ce81c72265296ff

Yankee Hill Machine Hooded Front Flip Sight Tower (YHM-9394-H) - $79.95

http://www.bravocomp...sight tower.htm

Yankee Hill Machine Flip Rear Sight (YHM-9680) - $94.75

YHM, Yankee Hill Machine Co., Inc. – Makers of High Quality Firearms, Accessories & Sound Suppressors | Sights

Yankee Hill Machine Rifle Length Diamond Forearm - YHM-9635-DX - $119.97

http://www.cheaperth...px?sku=ARR-9635

Total Thus Far for Upper Parts - $402.48

Total for Upper Half Parts - $962.60

Lower Half

Palemetto State Armory Gadsden Stripped Lower - $121.95

http://palmettostate...ry.com/2072.php

CMMG LPK Lower Parts Kit 223/5.56 - $55.95

http://www.alliedarm...s-kit-223-5-56/

Magpul MOE Polymer Trigger Guard - $6.49

http://www.alliedarm...-trigger-guard/

Magpul MOE+ AR15/M16 Grip- $17.49

http://www.alliedarm...-ar15-m16-grip/

Magpul PMAG 30Rd - $12.95 Ea. x 2 = $25.90

http://www.alliedarmory.com/magpul-pmag-30rd/

MOE® Rifle Stock - $69.95

http://store.magpul....duct/MAG404/181

Total Thus Far for Lower Parts - $227. 78

Total for Lower Half Parts - $297.73

Grand Total For Build - $1260.33

Total Actually Spent Thus Far $630.26

Any Suggestions or Comments????

Edited November 7, 2012 by ArmyVeteran37214

[LA_357SIG]

just curious but why go with a basic carbine buttstock when running a 20" barrel? Have you considered an A1 or Magpul PRS stock?

....And just to throw it out there DSG Arms has the complete Magpul stock, grip, buffer, spring, and receiver extension for $99. it also comes with a carbine length handguard.

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/MGMOEKITBLK.aspx

Spikes and Bravo Company both offer complete Bolt Carrier Groups with all the preferred "tactical operator" upgrades and quality checks.

and finally unless I missed something are you going to get handguards or a free float forend?

Edited June 14, 2010 by LA_357SIG

[LA_357SIG]

Oh, and although I try to support local buisnesses as much as possible I rarely find parts in stock locally at a reasonable retail price + sales tax to not try to buy them online.

[DarrellG]

If you can build it cool (I'm a cert. armorer) but if you don't have the experience/tools in building I would look for a deal on an upper. The lower can be tricky but it can be done. A miscalculation in building the upper can be very serious.

I'm partial to Magpul or ACE's socom stock but that's me.

Looks like a good start.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

just curious but why go with a basic carbine buttstock when running a 20" barrel? Have you considered an A1 or Magpul PRS stock? and finally unless I missed something are you going to get handguards or a free float forend?

I like the basic cabine buttstock, but if I see something else I like I'll get it. I'm not very fond of the A1 buttstock.

I haven't decided yet if I want free float or just the traditional handguards yet. I'll leaning toward free float.

Spikes and Bravo Company both offer complete Bolt Carrier Groups with all the preferred "tactical operator" upgrades and quality checks.

I'll look into that.

Edited June 15, 2010 by StreetWK05

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

If you can build it cool (I'm a cert. armorer) but if you don't have the experience/tools in building I would look for a deal on an upper. The lower can be tricky but it can be done. A miscalculation in building the upper can be very serious.

I'm partial to Magpul or ACE's socom stock but that's me.

Looks like a good start.

I feel pretty confident that I can put it together and I'm willing to spend the money on the tools to do it also.

I really don't like the look of the Magpul stock. I'll look into the ACE's Soccom Stock.

Oh, and although I try to support local buisnesses as much as possible I rarely find parts in stock locally at a reasonable retail price + sales tax to not try to buy them online.

Like I said in OP, money is a non-issue since I'll be buying parts when I have extra funds. Lessens the price sticker shock.

Also as sidenote, I've spent quite a few hrs. researching parts and I know that I'll be spend quite a few more deciding what I want.

Edited June 15, 2010 by StreetWK05

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Ah come on TGO'ers, 96 views and only 2 ppl have commented! There's gotta be some AR-15 parts out there that you guys love. All suggestions or criticisims are welcome. I can take it, I have pretty thick skin!

[Worriedman]

Daniel Defense on FF, have them on three different weapons, really like their quality.

Can not beat Noveski barrels.

I am all for TN, my builds have all been on Sabre Defense upper and lower receivers, very satisfied.

If I can build my own from parts, any one can, just make sure you get the right tools.

Not a photograper, but you get the gist:

Edited June 16, 2010 by Worriedman

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Worriedman, what buttstock is that?

[Mike]

Lmt sopmod.

A carbine stock on a 20" rifle is going to be front heavy like a mofo. I've seen it done and it wasn't very comfortable to me. If you are wanting adjustability with the longer barrel I would look into the magpul ubr. It has enough weight to balance out a longer front heavy rifle.

Mike

Edited June 20, 2010 by Mike

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Thanks for the input Mike. That's the exactly what I'm looking for, information like that. Information that will keep me from making a dumb purchase. Anyone else?

[gunrunner32]

Below are my three builds, all fairly smiliar, built out of boredom or to try out new items. Some of the parts that I like out of these are the Sun Devil lower reciever, can't go wrong with a DPMS LPK, DPMS or RRA Chrome BCG, the Adams Arms Piston, Magpul MIAD pistol grip, YHM Diamond One Peice Free Floating Rail, VLTOR MUR-1A Upper, Sabre Defense Barrels, LMT SOPMOD 2 Buttstock and a good EOTech. There are a lot of different companies represented on these rifles, if there are any questions I can do a parts rundown for each. All have a 14.5" barrel with a pinned flash hider, I went with a 14.5" since it looks better to me and I know I can reach out a few hundred meters with one, anything out past 500m I'd rather be using a bolt action anyways. All three rifles were Duracoated by myself and the designs/graphics were hand cut. Here's the pictures:

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Time to revive this thread from the grave. I've finally decide it was time to start this build. Obviously there are changes to be made to my list and will update that soon. First item that has changed is the lower. I decided to go with a PSA Gadsden stripped lower instead of a Spikes lower. I wanted to have a lower that had some sort of cool factor and like I stated in my op, money would be a non-issue. The Gadsden Flag on the lower has that cool factor for me. Grand total spent on lower receiver is $121.95. That's sale price with shipping, background check and transfer fee that Guns For America charged me. Not bad in my opinion.

PSA Lower Receiver -->http://palmettostatearmory.com/2072.php

Edited September 30, 2011 by StreetWK05

[Caster]

Everything sounded awesome until I read "Tapco" You lost me when I read that.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Everything sounded awesome until I read "Tapco" You lost me when I read that.

Like I said, this thread is old and I need to rethink, update list. My thoughts of what I want have and will change alot during the build. Also, real feedback from the TGO community will help me from making possible costly mistakes. I'll do an updated list some time this weekend.

Edited October 1, 2011 by StreetWK05

[willis68]

I would go with a Rock River Arms Two stage trigger, I have built 2 AR's and used these triggers they are awesome

[Guest Scramasax]

+1 for the ubr. Also look at the ACE stock.

Cheers,

ts

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Removed Tapco stock and Spikes lower from list. Also added PSA lower.

[Dolomite_supafly]

My goal is to build a full length (a la M16 style) rifle. I want to do the majority of the assembly myself, but will not care if a few things come pre-assembled. I want this build to have quality parts and price is a non-issue! I will be buying parts as funds become available. I will not buy bargain bin parts from gun shows or else where. Only parts from reputable dealers and suppliers. I have a decent list of items I want to have, but I am open to suggestions that will make the rifle better in quality and durability. I would like to buy from local vendors where possible. Time frame of build, less than 8 months hopefully. I also apologize if this thread is posted in the wrong spot, mods please move if you need to.

Beginning of Incomplete List of Parts: Subject To Change

Upper Half

Yankee Hill Machine 20", Threaded, Fluted, 1:7" Twsit (YHM-77-TF) -$226.00

Dump the 7 twist barrel. They overstabilize the bullets and cause issues with terminal performance (see below)

Rifle Length AR-15 Barrels

Yankee Hill Machine Phantom 5.56mm 5C2 Comp/Flash Suppressor (YHM-28-5C2) - $32.00 YHM, Yankee Hill Machine Co., Inc. – Makers of High Quality Firearms, Accessories & Sound Suppressors | Muzzle Accessories

Complete Bolt Carrier Assembly - YHM-12011849 - $123.00

Complete Bolt Carrier Group

Bravo Company BCM AR15 Charging Handle - $22.95

AR-15 Charging Handle

Bravo Company Upper Receiver Assembly - W/ Laser T-Markings Flat Top - $87.95 Upper Receiver Assembly - Flat Top

Yankee Hill Machine Black Plated Gas Tubes Rifle (YHM-BL-04) - $17.50

Black Plated Gas Tubes

Yankee Hill Machine Hooded Front Flip Sight Tower (YHM-9394-H) - $97.00

Front Flip Sight Towers

Yankee Hill Machine Flip Rear Sight (YHM-9680) - $94.75

YHM, Yankee Hill Machine Co., Inc. – Makers of High Quality Firearms, Accessories & Sound Suppressors | Sights

You still need a barrel nut. Gas block. Gas tube pin.

Lower Half

Palemetto State Armory Gadsden Stripped Lower - $122.00

Palmetto State Armory Gadsden Lower

Defense Lower Receiver Parts Kit - $86.00

Daniel Defense, Inc | Browse | Lower Receiver Parts and Componets | Lower Receiver Parts Kit

I would save yourself some money and go with a DPMS kit. They are just as good and $30 cheaper.

Grand Total Thus Far: $

Any Suggestions or Comments????

This is one of the few times you are going to see me say a 7 twist barrel isn't bad, it isn't great and I would still use a 9 twist barrel. The 7 twist needs a longer barrel to get the velocity up. With the longer barrel you are going to be able to push the heavier bullets closer to the velocities needed for them to work. Most people choose a 16" barrel with a 7 twist which is the worst of all worlds. But you are going with a longer barrel which helps some. I would build it around what you are going to be shooting the most. Which is 55 or 62 grain for most who don't reload. For those that do reload you can optimize the loads for the gun but the twist is still too fast, IMHO, for an AR where you are limited to magazine length cartridges..

I would still go with a 9 twist. You can shoot 69 grain bullets easily with the 9 twist. 8 twist will get the bullet weight to 77 grains which is about the heaviest bullet you are going to find that can feed from a magazine. For most people 9 twist is plenty for what they are going to do. If you go with a fast twist some lightweight (read varmint) bullets will come apart from centrifugal force. I know for a fact 53 grain SMK's will come apart at under 3300 from in a 7 twist barrel and 40 grain V-Maxes at roughly 3500. There is nothing to gain accuracy wise by choosing a 7 or 8 twist over a 9 twist. Problem with heavy bullets is they tend to be pushed to slower velocities than the lighter bullets. Combine this with a faster twist and you have a combination that results in bullets not tumbling or fragmenting, only punching neat little holes in soft targets. You can fix this some with proper bullet selection but with FMJ's it is miserable.

The Miller Formula, which is used to calculate stability lists 1.40 as the optimum number. All these calculations are done at 2800 fps which is very optimistic for the heavier bullets even with a 20" barrel. And as you increase velocity the stability increases which is not what you want in order for a bullet to tumble and ultimately fragment.

With a 7 twist barrel a 69 grain bullet has a Miller formula number of 2.738 or almost twice what is optimal. For a 77 grain the same number is 2.292 which, again, is well above what is considered optimal. And the 80 grain bullet has a number of 1.943 which is closer but still far from optimal.

Now lets do the same with a 9 twist barrel. The 80 grain bullet has a number of 1.175 which is slightly below the optimal number and listed as unstabile. The 77 grain is 1.387 which is stabile and and would work well as it is just under the optimal which means as soon as it hits a target it would tumble. And with the 69 the number is 1.695 which is also stabile and a bit over the optimal number.

62 grain bullets are still stabile at 1200 fps with a 9 twist. With a muzzle velocity of 3100 fps that 62 grain bullet is still stabile at 750 yards. And 55 grain is about the same as well with the 9 twist. You are not losing anything by using a 9 twist unless you plan on trying to shoot past 1,000 and in that case you are not going to be using a magazine and will be loading them one at a time. Beyond 1,000 yards is where the fast twist barrels shine but they also require a lot of velocity and a long barrel.

What happens when a bullet is overstabilized is it will not tumble. And the tumbling is what leads to the bullet fragmenting. And it is this fragmenting that does the damage. When the bullet can't tumble it can't fragment and will only pass through. Now this can be mitigated using different bullet designs but for most tumbling is what you are wanting the 223 to do for best results. Velocity can also cause the bullets to fragment but the velocity has to be high enough to force the bullet to loose its structure integrity. This is the reason why we are hearing all the poor reports from soldiers overseas. The bullets are being overstabilized which kills the hopes of tumbling and the velocities have been reduced by the heavy bullets which kills the hopes of the bullet coming apart from velocity.

Here are some interesting reads on the effectiveness of the 5.56:

Do not hot link this but copy and paste it into a new browser to open it:

http://stevespages.com/pdf/5_56mm_military_info.pdf

This is the penetration based on velocity:

http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg

Other than the barrel twist it looks like it is going to be a nice build. People are going to say why do you need to worry about tumbling and terminal performance. To those I say you never know what the future holds. The gun you build for the range today might be called upon to save your life tomorrow.

Dolomite

[Magiccarpetrides]

Go with a Spikes LPK over the DD its cheaper and the QC is better...the parts are the same if not better also.

If it wasnt listed get a nickel boron coated bolt carrier group....Spikes has an excellent one for $225.00...it can be removed without gloves after multiple mags have been run through the gun, it requires minimal lubrication, is very easy to clean, is all mil-spec, and should yield a much longer service life then even a chromed bcg. $225 might seem expensive now, but once you use one you will think its worth almost double.

if you havent bought an upper yet might I suggest going over to AIM Surplus Home and checking out the Spikes Elite FN Cold Hammer Forged complete uppers that include a Nickel Boron BCG and heavy buffer for $699.00

If your stuck on a 20" stroll over to PSA as they have a very nice complete FN Hammer Forged Setup for $500-600 (without the Nib, but still a standard bcg)

[mikegideon]

I would go with a Rock River Arms Two stage trigger, I have built 2 AR's and used these triggers they are awesome

The RRA's feel real nice. Much better that a stock on. FWIW, I use Geissele triggers on mine (2 SSA's, and an SSA-E)

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Dolomite, I've been looking into changing my barrel selection to 1:8 or 1:9 twist. Also I am stuck on wanting a 20" barrel, and thats what I want on this rifle. I can always put together another upper with a shorter barrel if I want later down the road.

Yankee Hill Machine YHM 20" 1:9, Threaded, Fluted, Chrome (YHM-79-TF)

20 Fluted Chrome Lined Barrels - $226.00 : YHM, Yankee Hill Machine Co., Inc. | Makers of High Quality Firearms, Accessories & Sound Suppressors, Makers of High Quality Firearms, Accessories & Sound Suppressors

20" Match Fluted H-Bar Barrel 1/8 or 1/9 Twist

AR15 5.56 20" Fluted H-Bar

Bravo Company 20" 1:8 SAM-R barrel with Service Match Heavy Contour

BCM 20" SAM-R SS410 Barrel with Rifle Length Gas

Edited October 1, 2011 by StreetWK05

[mikegideon]

My varmint AR has a 1:8. I shoot 77 grain Matchkings in it. Not sure a 1:9 would cut it.

I also plan to play with some Barnes TTSX. Those are solid copper, and are longer than lead bullets of equivalent weight. I think this may be part of the reason why the military went to faster barrels. A change in bullet technology could require it.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Go with a Spikes LPK over the DD its cheaper and the QC is better...the parts are the same if not better also.

If it wasnt listed get a nickel boron coated bolt carrier group....Spikes has an excellent one for $225.00...it can be removed without gloves after multiple mags have been run through the gun, it requires minimal lubrication, is very easy to clean, is all mil-spec, and should yield a much longer service life then even a chromed bcg. $225 might seem expensive now, but once you use one you will think its worth almost double.

if you havent bought an upper yet might I suggest going over to AIM Surplus Home and checking out the Spikes Elite FN Cold Hammer Forged complete uppers that include a Nickel Boron BCG and heavy buffer for $699.00

If your stuck on a 20" stroll over to PSA as they have a very nice complete FN Hammer Forged Setup for $500-600 (without the Nib, but still a standard bcg)

I plan on getting the Lower Receiver Half built first, then work on putting the Upper Receiver Half second. Also, thanks for the tip on the Spikes Enhanced LPK. I was wanting to get either the Ergo grip or a Magpul grip anyways and with that in a kit already will likely save me some money. I'll also look into the Spikes BCG, cause one of the main points of this build is to make it as reliable and have great longevity of the parts that go into this AR.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

My varmint AR has a 1:8. I shoot 77 grain Matchkings in it. Not sure a 1:9 would cut it.

I also plan to play with some Barnes TTSX. Those are solid copper, and are longer than lead bullets of equivalent weight. I think this may be part of the reason why the military went to faster barrels. A change in bullet technology could require it.

I've been leaning toward 1:8 twist, b/c it would likely give me the best all around performance that I'm looking for out of this AR.