Carry Past a Sign - Lose Your HCP

[Fallguy]

NOBODY ('ceptin' a cop) pats me down. I don't know where those hands have been, and I don't know the pervert doing it. Lay a hand on me without my permission and it constitutes assault and battery.

True, but if you don't let them....they don't have to let you in either.

[Guest 270win]

I think this all depends on how you compose of yourself. If you conceal well...then you have solved 99% of the problem if you accidently walk past one of these signs...especially if you have to go somewhere like a hospital...govt office..place that you don't have choice to go but have to go out of necessity. A snub or a small autopistol in a good holster fixes a lot.

Now in that slight and very small chance you are 'found out'....your attitude goes a LONG WAY...whether or not a place has a sign, a proper sign...or whatever...because there is a chance you'll be asked to leave or even the police called. Act nice and respectful to everyone...and again probably no problems....even play dumb if they pull the "You aren't allowed to have that gun here"...apoligize...and try to leave. Respect the police....99% of them are good guys who know we are good guys and aren't going to hassle you....I've had weapons in my car before having a license in Arkansas...and no problems...claimed I was on a 'journey' or 'that knife is for hunting'...when a weapon became known...and we talked about hunting or guns...and I was on my way...I doubt I would have been on my way if I had been a jerk.

My views are play cool...if you don't carry in a good holster...get a good holster that will always conceal no matter how you are standing or sitting..if found out still be nice and try to leave...if police called be nice...and you'll be fine...nothing to worry about...but hey it's my opinion.

[Fallguy]

I think this all depends on how you compose of yourself. If you conceal well...then you have solved 99% of the problem if you accidently walk past one of these signs...especially if you have to go somewhere like a hospital...govt office..place that you don't have choice to go but have to go out of necessity. A snub or a small autopistol in a good holster fixes a lot.

Now in that slight and very small chance you are 'found out'....your attitude goes a LONG WAY...whether or not a place has a sign, a proper sign...or whatever...because there is a chance you'll be asked to leave or even the police called. Act nice and respectful to everyone...and again probably no problems....even play dumb if they pull the "You aren't allowed to have that gun here"...apoligize...and try to leave. Respect the police....99% of them are good guys who know we are good guys and aren't going to hassle you....I've had weapons in my car before having a license in Arkansas...and no problems...claimed I was on a 'journey' or 'that knife is for hunting'...when a weapon became known...and we talked about hunting or guns...and I was on my way...I doubt I would have been on my way if I had been a jerk.

My views are play cool...if you don't carry in a good holster...get a good holster that will always conceal no matter how you are standing or sitting..if found out still be nice and try to leave...if police called be nice...and you'll be fine...nothing to worry about...but hey it's my opinion.

Well said...

[Guest broncobuddha]

I dunno. The way I read the law (http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/106/pub/pc1009.pdf) it's only a 3 year revocation for violating the carrying and consuming portion under a Class A misdemeanor.

Carry past a posted sign is a Class B misdemeanor

(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this

section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred

dollars ($500).

Anyone else read it this way?

[Guest 270win]

That's kind of the way I read it.....only five hundred dollar fine.

The liquor violation deal is a big misdemeanor.....not to be taken lightly...that would be as big as a hassle as DWI....3 year suspension is not a walk in the park and I bet the fine would be quite hefty.

[JayC]

I dunno. The way I read the law (http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/106/pub/pc1009.pdf) it's only a 3 year revocation for violating the carrying and consuming portion under a Class A misdemeanor.

Carry past a posted sign is a Class B misdemeanor

(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this

section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred

dollars ($500).

Anyone else read it this way?

39-17-1352a reads in part:

The department shall suspend or revoke a handgun permit upon a showing by its records or other sufficient evidence that the permit holder:

39-17-1352a6:

Has violated any other provision of §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360;

If TDOS becomes aware that you have violated 39-17-1359, notice that the way it's currently worded a conviction of violating 39-17-1359 is not required, just that "sufficient evidence" is given to the department.

Even if they can't make that stick, TDOS can use the 39-17-1352a3 catch all:

Poses a material likelihood of risk of harm to the public;

The one time I'm aware of this provision being used, the person had not even violated the 1351-1360, wasn't arrested nor charged with a crime. Also in this one case, the suspension appears to be the equivalent of a lifetime ban of the persons HCP.

So, it's a much bigger deal than just a $500 fine, if TDOS finds out your permit will be revoked or suspended, and who knows for how long it could very well be a lifetime ban.

Needless to say, 39-17-1352a3 and a6 need to get deleted...

[BigK]

...play cool...if you don't carry in a good holster...get a good holster that will always conceal no matter how you are standing or sitting..if found out still be nice and try to leave...if police called be nice...

Great point razorback!

I would only add that if you're "found out"...it would go a long way toward avoiding trouble if you apologize, explaining that it was not intentional, and ask humbly if you can please lock it up in your car.

humble pie tastes better when you don't lose your right to carry :^)

Edited June 12, 2010 by BigK
forgot a point

[Fallguy]

39-17-1352 doesn't specify whether a permit is to be suspended or revoked on any specific offense. If suspened it doesn't say for how long. So in those cases I assume it is up to the DOS.

So I figure the 3 year susspenion in 39-17-1321 is because the legisalture wanted a specific amount of time for that specific crime.

So just because susspention, revocation or length of susspenion isn't mentioned in other laws, doesn't mean your HCP can't be...it just means that it will be left up to the DOS...at least IMO.

But I agree that susspenios/revocation would be an additional penalty on top of a $500 fine...but not sure if the law/court system/DOS would see it that way.

[Oh Shoot]

...

But I agree that susspenios/revocation would be an additional penalty on top of a $500 fine...but not sure if the law/court system/DOS would see it that way.

(1)The $500 fine is for violating 39-17-1359

(2)The suspension/revocation is for violating 39-17-1352, which you do when you've done (1).

- OS

[vontar]

They will not be "patting" me down. I am talking about people working at a business, If anyone touches me, I will sue for Assault, maybe even sexual harassment. I am not talking about a LEO that feels they have cause to do a pat down, that may be different.

A business may decide they do not want me as a paying customer if they insist on a pat down. They will not not be patting me down, if they do I will consider it assault, maybe even sexual harassment as I may not know the orientation of the person especially if it a man.

Why would I consider it assault? When I took my CPA/first aid class it was drilled in that if you attempt to help a person that is still conscious with out their consent and you touch them they can sue you for assault even though you are wanting to help. That they could actually sue you if you touch them for assault if they want to. I would consider a pat down or an attempt pat down an assault.

(I know I am not explaining that as good as it was explained in the class)

However there is a point if they are going unconscious, you have implied consent to help.

Edited June 12, 2010 by vontar