Restaurant carry official! - Public Chapter 1009

[Fallguy]

http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/106/pub/pc1009.pdf

SB3012 has been issued a Public Chapter 1009 by the Secretary of State.

It shows an effective date of June 4, 2010.

Carry in good health!!!

[Capbyrd]

[Guest JC1848]

That is good news. GOod work on keeping everyone updated Fallguy

[Il Duce]

sweet t!ts

[Fallguy]

It has been posted in other threads...but here is what Public Chapter 1009 changes in the TCA

-----Section 1------

39-17-1305 - Repealed (The law that prohibited carry in places where alcohol was served)

-----Section 2------

39-17-1321 Possession of handgun while under influence — Penalty.

(a) Notwithstanding whether a person has a permit issued pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351, it is an offense for a person to possess a handgun while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled substance.

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1)

Within the confines of an establishment open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for consumption on the premises; and

(2)

Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection (

.

©(1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(2)

In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision (1), if

the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in

subdivision (

(1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant

to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with §

39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

---------Section 3------

39-17-1359 Prohibition at certain meetings — Posting notice.

(a)(1) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person who is at a meeting conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity.

(2)

The prohibition in subdivision (1) shall apply to any person who

is authorized to carry a firearm by authority of § 39-17-1351.

((1) Notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished by displaying one (1) or both of the notices described in subdivision (3) in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited. Either form of notice used shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

(2)

The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a

duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons,

customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession

is prohibited.

(3)(A)

If a sign is used as the method of posting, it shall contain

language substantially similar to the following:

AS AUTHORIZED BY TCA § 39-17-1359, POSSESSION OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

(

As used in this section, "language substantially similar

to" means the sign contains language plainly stating that:

(i)

The property is posted under authority of

Tennessee law;

(ii)

Weapons or firearms are prohibited on the

property, in the building, or on the portion of the property or

building that is posted; and

(iii)

Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

©

A building, property or a portion of a building or

property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with

this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in

prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by

persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property

or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

(i)

The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

(ii)

The posting sign described in this subdivision

(3).

©(1) It is an offense to possess a weapon in a building or on property that is properly posted in accordance with this section.

(2)

Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this

section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred

dollars ($500).

(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.

(e) The provisions of this section shall not apply to Title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations.

(f) This section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof. The carrying of firearms in those areas shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.

-------------Section 4--------

Amended 39-17-1351 (HCP law) by adding language requiring the safety class included instruction on the effects of alcohol and drugs and TCA 39-17-1321

Beginning September 1, 2010, and thereafter, a component of the classroom portion of all department-approved handgun safety courses shall be instruction on alcohol and drugs, the effects of those substances on a person's reflexes, judgment and ability to safely handle a firearm, and the provisions of § 39-17-1321.

------------Section 5----------

Removes 57-3-204(e) - This was the part of the law that required places that sold alcohol for off-site consumption to post a sign to saying that carry was illegal in such a place. (Had been legal in those places since 2000)

-----------Section 6----------

Removes 57-4-203(k) This was the part of the law that required places that sold alcohol for onsite consumption to post a sign to saying that carry was illegal in such a place.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Fallguy
Formatting...

[JAB]

Great!

Anyone else thinking that next year, after they have a chance to change the liquor laws, this will be changed to only allow carry in restaurants that serve? Not that it will bother me - I really don't frequent bars. Heck, I mostly want to be able to carry in the little mom and pop places that offer beer in their beverage choices on the menu. Not that I will turn down carrying where liquor is served, too!

Now if the legislature can just get something passed so that I can keep a firearm in my vehicle while at work (would probably take changes to both 'parking lot' laws and 'school property' laws) - which effects me every Monday through Friday and not just when I go out to eat - I will be pretty well satisfied.

[Fallguy]

That is good news. GOod work on keeping everyone updated Fallguy

Thanks....but to just give proper credit...Worriedman was the first to post the Public Chapter number was issued and sent me a PM.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

So if I'm reading this right if I'm busted for carrying a handgun in a place that is posted and for some reason I didn't see it, I will just get a fine No jail time and will not get my permit suspended?

"Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)".

[Fallguy]

So if I'm reading this right if I'm busted for carrying a handgun in a place that is posted and for some reason I didn't see it, I will just get a fine No jail time and will not get my permit suspended?

"Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)".

Correct....that was not changed, just clarified.

Well...and for me to clarify, your permit would not automatically be suspended. There is a catch all provision in 39-17-1352 about possessing a material likely hood of harm to the public. But IMO a single violation of 39-17-1359 would not rise to that level.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Correct....that was not changed, just clarified.

Thanks. That will still be an expensive lesson.

[Guest cheez]

The link is broken so I can't read the effective date.

[Fallguy]

The link is broken so I can't read the effective date.

Works for me... ...and the effective date is/was June 4, 2010 (as seen at the bottom of Page 4)

But you can get there the long way by going to....

Tennessee Department of State: Publications

Click on Public Acts Search

Then go to page 11

See Public Chapter 1009

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Time to

[JayC]

Correct....that was not changed, just clarified.

Well...and for me to clarify, your permit would not automatically be suspended. There is a catch all provision in 39-17-1352 about possessing a material likely hood of harm to the public. But IMO a single violation of 39-17-1359 would not rise to that level.

I'm not sure that is accurate, seeing as the only documented case of 39-17-1352a3 being used to suspend a permit of somebody who didn't violate any laws let alone part of 39-17-1351 thru 1360.

Also note, that they can suspend based off of 39-17-1352a6 as well which states:

(6) Has violated any other provision of §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360;

So, yes DOS can suspend or revoke your permit if you're caught violating 39-17-1359 even though that violation would not prevent your from getting a permit in the first place. And if they become aware of your conviction under 39-17-1359 it would appear they are required to suspend or revoke your permit:

(a) The department shall suspend or revoke a handgun permit upon a showing by its records or other sufficient evidence that the permit holder:

As much as many people dislike a certain person who shall not be named We should all hope he is successful in getting his permit re-instated otherwise being caught inside a building where you didn't see the 2 inch by 2 inch ghost buster sign 4 inches above the ground 30 feet inside the building may result in your lifetime suspension of your carry permit not just having to pay $500.

As much as we'd all like to see 39-17-1359 fixed or removed.... Personally I'd like to see 39-17-1352a3 and a6 removed first.

[Mike.357]

congrat's to all of you guys who are big fans of this legislation.

Enjoy your night at the bar tonight!

See we can say guns in bars now

[Fallguy]

I'm not sure that is accurate, seeing as the only documented case of 39-17-1352a3 being used to suspend a permit of somebody who didn't violate any laws let alone part of 39-17-1351 thru 1360.

Also note, that they can suspend based off of 39-17-1352a6 as well which states:

So, yes DOS can suspend or revoke your permit if you're caught violating 39-17-1359 even though that violation would not prevent your from getting a permit in the first place. And if they become aware of your conviction under 39-17-1359 it would appear they are required to suspend or revoke your permit:

As much as many people dislike a certain person who shall not be named We should all hope he is successful in getting his permit re-instated otherwise being caught inside a building where you didn't see the 2 inch by 2 inch ghost buster sign 4 inches above the ground 30 feet inside the building may result in your lifetime suspension of your carry permit not just having to pay $500.

As much as we'd all like to see 39-17-1359 fixed or removed.... Personally I'd like to see 39-17-1352a3 and a6 removed first.

True enough.....

[Billco]

Many thanks, Fallguy, for keeping me and the rest of us so current on the issue. Your knowledge and input/opinions are greatly appreciated.

[krunchnik]

Thanks. That will still be an expensive lesson.

yeh,500 bucks buys a lot of ammo and a couple of concealable holsters.

[Oh Shoot]

Also note, that they can suspend based off of 39-17-1352a6 as well which states:

(6) Has violated any other provision of §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360;

Actually, the statute says:

"The department shall suspend or revoke a handgun permit upon a showing by its records or other sufficient evidence that the permit holder:"

So, according to this statute, if you're caught carrying past a sign, you will lose your permit, unless their reporting system doesn't work.

And if they become aware of your conviction under 39-17-1359 it would appear they are required to suspend or revoke your permit:

Yes.

Leaving both our comments in for emphasis.

As much as many people dislike a certain person who shall not be named We should all hope he is successful in getting his permit re-instated otherwise being caught inside a building where you didn't see the 2 inch by 2 inch ghost buster sign 4 inches above the ground 30 feet inside the building may result in your lifetime suspension of your carry permit not just having to pay $500.

While I agree, and am one of the few who have disagreed with his permit being revoked, I don't see his situation as affecting carrying under 1359. Hell, HE didn't even break a carry law, but anyone charged with carrying past a sign HAS BROKEN A CARRY LAW, and as we've pointed out according the statutes, WILL have permit suspended (at the least) or permanently revoked.

I've mentioned this in other threads, but nobody much reacts to it. There COULD be a real push to enforce and convict under the new carry statute, perhaps incited by Rayburn, et al, and we may all well rue the day we got the "right" to carry in alcohol serving restaurants.

- OS

edit: matter of fact, I started a new thread about this in Handgun Carry to not further derail this one:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/41249-carry-past-sign-lose-your-handgun-carry-permit.html

Edited June 9, 2010 by OhShoot

[Fallguy]

Many thanks, Fallguy, for keeping me and the rest of us so current on the issue. Your knowledge and input/opinions are greatly appreciated.

.

[JAB]

Sitting at O'Charley's, drinking tea, about to have a burger, posting from my Blackberry. P3AT in pocket. All nice and legal.

[Guest Dean Wormer]

As much as many people dislike a certain person who shall not be named We should all hope he is successful in getting his permit re-instated otherwise being caught inside a building where you didn't see the 2 inch by 2 inch ghost buster sign 4 inches above the ground 30 feet inside the building may result in your lifetime suspension of your carry permit not just having to pay $500.

As much as we'd all like to see 39-17-1359 fixed or removed.... Personally I'd like to see 39-17-1352a3 and a6 removed first.

Doesn't the law require the sign to be "plainly visible"? I seriously doubt this would be considered 'plainly visible'.

Me thinks we need to either ditch the sign business, or make it like Texas 30.06 so there is no question.

[Guest slothful1]

© A building, property or a portion of a building or property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

(i)

The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

You know, I hate to point this out, especially now, but the description of the circle/slash emblem here doesn't say anything about WHAT is prohibited. Yes, any sensible person will understand from context that it's intended to mean the circle/slashes showing gun silhouettes, but I think a strictly literal (i.e., lawyerish) reading of this statute means that even someplace with a 'No Smoking' circle/slash is now "considered properly posted" per this paragraph. Edited June 9, 2010 by slothful1
Font got huge somehow...

[Fallguy]

[/size][/font]You know, I hate to point this out, especially now, but the description of the circle/slash emblem here doesn't say anything about WHAT is prohibited. Yes, any sensible person will understand from context that it's intended to mean the circle/slashes showing gun silhouettes, but I think a strictly literal (i.e., lawyerish) reading of this statute means that even someplace with a 'No Smoking' circle/slash is now "considered properly posted" per this paragraph.

It says it is to have a picture of the item to prohibited....so a picture of a burning ciggartte does prohibit those, but not guns.

[Billco]

We just got back from Logans - Rivergate. No sign of any kind. Great meal with my wife and my ultra carry on my hip (CC of course).