I agree with what was done.

[G27]

Not sure why some people feel they have the right to go into someone else's home and treat it however they want...

[jtluttrell]

The avatar change? Oh... yeah... well, if you piss me off enough you never know what might happen to an avatar.

Checkmate.

[Guest Jamie]

Not sure why some people feel they have the right to go into someone else's home and treat it however they want...

Answer: An over-developed sense of entitlement.

It seems to be an absolute epidemic, these days.

J.

[ShamGlock]

And on the 8th page...it just got awesome

[Mike.357]

well since David pretty much figured out the thread I guess there is no harm in telling the topic.

The topic was for comments in support of what was done. ( not that support was needed, but fair is fair)

Cop bashing reflects poorly on the forum, what reflects poorly on the forum reflects poorly on its members. I am a member and do not want to be associated with cop bashing. Cops are alright by me.

I have had a bad experience with one or two leo in one incident. I have had more favorable interactions with law enforcement than unfavorable, by far. If Deputy Underwood is a member here I say thank you for something you did for me a few years ago. It had a big effect on me.

[Guest stmccann]

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter if anyone agrees with or disagrees with the decisions that I make as long as I sleep well having made them. This may sound like a smart-ass reply but I assure you it isn't. It's just the fact that once the die are cast, the only person who has to live with the decision is me.

This issue has been boiling for so long now that it was well beyond time to do something about it. The moderators have been struggling with which direction to take, and I've been pushing for weeks now to just let heads roll. Suffice it to say the moderators are largely more patient than I am. We have a very good moderating team.

Four factors need to be considered:

1. As I stated in my announcement on the issue, we have members here who are in Law Enforcement and they have gotten tired of the cop bashing. Particularly from someone, like TMMT, who purportedly is in the Internal Affairs business and seemed to be showing a serious hard-on for maligning them every chance he got. Cops expect IA people to be fair and just, but this guy clearly had a predisposed bias against.

2. TGO is not a media clearing house for anti-cop materials. Frankly we're not a media clearing house for anti-anything materials. We're a forum about firearms and firearms ownership. There's no justification for someone posting that many negative things about a particular profession that has very little to do with firearms ownership, over and over and over. He had beaten that dead horse long enough.

3. We have vendor partners who's livelihood depends partially on sales to Law Enforcement agencies and officers. How hard do you think it is for cops to support a vendor that supports a site that doesn't support them?

Before some incredibly bright individual pops off with an "Ah hah! It's all about the money!" let me remind everyone that it takes money to keep a site of this size online and we all should value the participation and support of our vendors.

4. Last but not least, my actions were certainly not "severe" (as has been suggested privately) considering not only the above but also the fact that I've been more than patient and provided an overabundance of opportunities for TMMT and others to cut it out. Actually I provided them too many opportunities. In hindsight, my patience just prolonged the inevitable.

So no, it wasn't severe. It was long in coming.

The avatar change? Oh... yeah... well, if you piss me off enough you never know what might happen to an avatar.

Understood. Obviously I am not fully aware of the situation - and as a proponent of the highest right - property rights (my opinion only) - this forum is yours and I play here based on my understanding of the rules you set for your private property.

So I guess I should say I agree with your decision - based on that if nothing else. Appreciate the reasoned explanation....

Take care and be safe.

Sean

[MacGyver]

Too bad the dude didn't just come out and say what he was trying to accomplish before he was banned. I would have loved to have heard it in his words. That said he certainly had ample opportunity and warning to see his ban coming, so it couldn't have been a surprise.

David, you have been way more patient than I would have been.

[LagerHead]

For the record, I don't disagree with what was not done, or the manner in which it was not done. If I weren't David, I wouldn't have not done it too.

Oh, and I like pancakes too. With BACON!

[Guest db99wj]

This made my head hurt.

Anyway, their was an obvious agenda that this guy had, the full extent of his agenda won't fully be known I guess, but he did have an agenda. Anytime I saw a thread started by him, I knew what it was going to be, something anti-cop. I've even had this conversation with a member on here who is a cop one day over coffee, this guy has some type of "past" that he is trying to get even for.

Anyway, not that David needs my support, nor asked for it, I do support the decision and am glad to see it.

Now, take the pancakes and bacon, pour syrup all over them, even the bacon, fry up the rabbit, white milk gravy and biscuits.....Mmmmmmmm, that would be so good it would make you slap yo grandmama!

[Guest Moody]

I'm uninvolved in the entire situation, but I'll say this (it's my opinion):

I come to TGO to read about firearms, do's-and-don'ts, browse classified ads, and get up-to-date information on laws/bills that directly affect me, as a permit-holder and firearms enthusiast. I'm neutral on LEO-opinion, but like the fact that members that are officers browse the site, if only to interject their knowledge about a situation/scenario that may very well affect some of us one day (or already has), involving a firearm.

I do not enjoy reading "bashing" threads, because the entire "Well, so-and-so did THIS!" angle is just a nuisance to my reading, and threads where there are constant remarks that borderline idiocy (and also fall into that category) are just pointless, as well as make me NOT want to read threads when they take a tangent into those subjects.

Unlike some forums that I've been on in the past, (and am still on), I take a decency-stance on TGO, because I value and respect the members (and owner) that make this place great, and an invaluable resource. I can hop on any of my other forums and act like an idiot, where it's acceptable, because that's what those forums perpetuate (for a good laugh), but for core values and overall quality - I choose TGO.

Cliffs: Cut the crap - I like TGO, I don't want to read threads on people (anyone) being bashed. I come here for sound advice and because the membership base is respectable and upstanding.

[Guest Bronker]

Not sure why some people feel they have the right to go into someone else's home and treat it however they want...

Welcome to the "New World Order" agenda...

[hardknox00001]

HELP, HELP, I'M SURROUNDED. OHHHHHH MY CHEST, I THINK I'M HAVING A HEART ATTACK, HELP, HELP

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Is he gone for good?

[hardknox00001]

Is he gone for good?

Roger that...........

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/41209-stop-man-hoodie-carrying-weapon-lacked-reasonable-suspicion.html#post541429

[Erik88]

Who the heck is TMMT and what did I miss? I feel like I missed a lot

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

Roger that...........

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/41209-stop-man-hoodie-carrying-weapon-lacked-reasonable-suspicion.html#post541429

Gracias, sir.

I missed that whole debacle...

I'm going on vacation.... However, I'm taking my laptop so I can be with my TGO buddies...

[saintsfanbrian]

I support the decision only in the fact that it is TGO David's world and we all just play here.

I would suggest however that if we are truly a firearm community devoted to discussing firearms that we do not allow posts PRAISING anything other than firearms. To be 100% fair. It is not fair to ban someone (whether they repeatedly flamed etc) for "bashing" a particular group however you allow members to continually praise that same group.

We are either about firearms or not...

That's my opinion.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't care, one way or the other. It's called rules and decorum. Learn to play nice with others within the rules.

[kb4ns]

The avatar change? Oh... yeah... well, if you piss me off enough you never know what might happen to an avatar.

Well it was funny!

I stand behind you 110% David. Just like any profession, LE has its bad apples. I see where you're coming from - just because LEOs carry a gun while working doesn't mean anything they do is "firearm related". I had gotten to where I just ignored most of TMMT's threads because that dead horse carcass was starting to become rather pungent.

[TGO David]

I support the decision only in the fact that it is TGO David's world and we all just play here.

I would suggest however that if we are truly a firearm community devoted to discussing firearms that we do not allow posts PRAISING anything other than firearms. To be 100% fair. It is not fair to ban someone (whether they repeatedly flamed etc) for "bashing" a particular group however you allow members to continually praise that same group.

We are either about firearms or not...

That's my opinion.

That's a pretty childish angle to take, in my opinion. It equates to having two children, one of whom can't behave and the other of whom is just minding his business. When the misbehaving child starts causing a fuss, do you ground both or do you act decisively and fairly?

Grounding both because you don't care to sort out the specifics is lazy and ... well ... sort of how Socialists think. Equal distribution of blame, rather than to each according to his works.

It's not like we have a preponderance of pro-LEO threads on TGO so getting rid of this nonsense restores equilibrium. It's not setting us up for going to the other extreme; and so what if it does? Is it going to paint TGO as being friendly to Law Enforcement? Is that a bad thing?

Honestly if a person doesn't want to be on TGO because there are too many cops, they sound like the kind of person who has something they're worried about and I wouldn't want them here anyway.

[Mike.357]

I would suggest however that if we are truly a firearm community devoted to discussing firearms that we do not allow posts PRAISING anything other than firearms.

some of the topics to be praised would fall into specific subforums here, others like this topic for example fit nicely into Off Topic. There is a difference between bashing and criticism.

The Off Topic area is my favorite far and away. It allows members to bond on likes and dislikes other than firearms and firearm accessories. I believe the Off Topic area is a huge contributor to TGO's success.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's a pretty childish angle to take, in my opinion. It equates to having two children, one of whom can't behave and the other of whom is just minding his business. When the misbehaving child starts causing a fuss, do you ground both or do you act decisively and fairly?

Grounding both because you don't care to sort out the specifics is lazy and ... well ... sort of how Socialists think. Equal distribution of blame, rather than to each according to his works.

It's not like we have a preponderance of pro-LEO threads on TGO so getting rid of this nonsense restores equilibrium. It's not setting us up for going to the other extreme; and so what if it does? Is it going to paint TGO as being friendly to Law Enforcement? Is that a bad thing?

Honestly if a person doesn't want to be on TGO because there are too many cops, they sound like the kind of person who has something they're worried about and I wouldn't want them here anyway.

Good analogy, too!

[saintsfanbrian]

some of the topics to be praised would fall into specific subforums here, others like this topic for example fit nicely into Off Topic. There is a difference between bashing and criticism.

The Off Topic area is my favorite far and away. It allows members to bond on likes and dislikes other than firearms and firearm accessories. I believe the Off Topic area is a huge contributor to TGO's success.

And I agree with you on this. This is where topics such as a police officer shooting a marine outside of a bar. A police officer searching an individual simply because he knew the person usually carried firearms illegally. A doctor amputating the wrong leg. An Air Force member jumping through fire to save a puppy. If we are going to tell you you cannot start a thread regarding one topic you shouldn't be able to start a thread about the other.

As long as the dislike is not about the LEO's it's okay for the off topic area. That's fine.

I am prior military. I come from a long family tradition of military service. On memorial day there was a thread thanking military/leo etc for their service. Should this be banned also? After all we wouldn't want to offend people that are against the military.

Would we respond the same if there was a thread saying that Obama searched a person because he thought they were carrying a gun illegally? We bash him left and right and that is okay.

I understand that we have vendors that make money off of the LEO as well as the other members of this forum and we wouldn't want that business hurt because a few bad apples. But when the Shoe Fits and the "bash" is deserved I think we need to call them out on it. When praise is deserved we should give it. Giving the government/law enforcement/medical profession etc a pass simply because that is the way it is and we don't want to "offend" anyone is why we are in the position we are these days.

Remember - and then they came for me......

Stand up - be heard that is how we got restaurant carry passed.

Stand up - be heard that is how we got the right to carry in the first place.

David - it's your world. That's fine. I just think we should be fair to BOTH sides. If there is an abundance of "bashing" then sure - ban the person. But maybe - just maybe there is some justification of the "bash".

As to disciplining my children - I make the rules and the rules go. David makes the rules and the rules go.

If you have a child that continually misbehaves then you punish them more severely but I cannot tell one child you cannot say something bad about this person but you can say wonderful things about them. That is inconsistent as well.

Humble is accepting praise without arrogance and character is doing the right thing when no one is looking. When people are looking and you do the wrong thing you deserve to be called out on it.

That's my opinion.

Honestly if a person doesn't want to be on TGO because there are too many cops, they sound like the kind of person who has something they're worried about and I wouldn't want them here anyway.

I have nothing to worry about from the police either. I just don't think someones profession deserves a pass from scrutiny. Yes - the majority of LEO are fine upstanding individuals and would never do anything outside of their authority but again - they should be the ones screaming the loudest when something is wrong.

And I am certainly not a socialist...

[Fallguy]

I didn't read every post...too many of them.

Which in a way I find funny...

One person got a temp pan for "pilling on"...and that really seems to be the only purpose for this thread...

[Guest bkelm18]

I didn't read every post...too many of them.

Which in a way I find funny...

One person got a temp pan for "pilling on"...and that really seems to be the only purpose for this thread...

True, however they got the temp ban for piling onto a discussion that is against board policy. This is just an amusing off topic discussion.