Book - "One Second After"?

[Rightwinger]

Sounds like a modern version with newer tech of Alas Babylon by Pat Frank.

This was written back when SAC still flew 24 hours a day and had ramp ready B52s but the premise is close.

The main character has to deal with power going out, which eliminates refrigeration. That means Insulin can't be kept so even if you lived through the attack, diabetics all died soon after the Day. Roving bands of looters, members of the town banding together, all the basics for what Jericho and other recent stories are based on. Good read, even if based on a much earlier time in our history.

I'll check this one out as well. I always do. Right after I finish Atlas Shrugged.

[midtennchip]

I get a LOT of audio books on Audible and have listened to this book several times. Not only is it a VERY good book from a scientific and "what if" standpoint, it is also one of the best books I've gotten from a purely literary standpoint. The author is an excellent writer and the book (even if the science wasn't good) is very entertaining. If you are a reader or listen to books on an iPod, get this one.

[gunbartender]

kept my wife up for a couple of nights reading it into the wee hours of the morning.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I found it interesting how the leaders of the community decided to take from the cattle owners and the people who prepared for disasters for the good of the community.

[G27]

I found it interesting how the leaders of the community decided to take from the cattle owners and the people who prepared for disasters for the good of the community.

Wasn't that only if they wanted food coupons?

[Guest SUNTZU]

Wasn't that only if they wanted food coupons?

As I recall the cows were used to make soup that you could use your coupon for. I think later in the book it talked about the survivalists parting with some of their goods.

Basically, my point is...

Edited June 9, 2010 by SUNTZU

[Guest Lester Weevils]

A really interesting site to browse about nukes is:

The Nuclear Weapon Archive - A Guide to Nuclear Weapons

Presumably it is fairly accurate info, dunno. This page lists the current USA stockpile. All of them are two-stage devices, and only one of them is published as more than 1 megaton (1.2 MT)--

U.S. Nuclear Weapon Enduring Stockpile

Browsing the site a few years ago, it was surprising the 'relatively low' yields of most of the recent-history stockpile. I grew up in the 1950's and 60's with both serious reports and end-of-the-world SF tales featuring all-out war using thousands of 10+ MT fusion devices, but at least according to NuclearWeaponsArchive, not really many of those monsters were ever deployed.

Of course, NWA could be wrong. No telling what is top secret.

The site has a lot of reading about the various models and test series.

Don't have time to look up details, but unless am remembering wrong, the USA only produced a few pure-fission single-stage devices in the 1+ MT yield range. Perhaps none were deployed, can't recall. I think they only made some huge single-stage devices as stop-gap measures in the early 1950's before they worked out the kinks on thermonuclear devices.

Just sayin, if a knock-out EMP requires a 1+ MT single-stage device, then we haven't had any for a long time, and maybe the only folks to currently worry about would be Russia and China? Sure, I have no doubt Israel or some other nations could make one if necessary.

But it will probably be awhile before N. Korea or Iran can pull a 1+ MT single-stage device out of their hat. Designed by those guys, it would probably be so big it would need a missile the size of Battlestar Galactica to throw it to the proper altitude!

There were some EMP's during altitude testing. Pretty significant, but not world-shattering. Of course back then they used tubes rather than transistors for the most part.

High-altitude nuclear explosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Fishbowl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Starfish Prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The worst effects of a Russian high-altitude test occurred on 22 October 1962 (during the Cuban missile crisis), in ‘Operation K’ (ABM System A proof tests) when a 300-kt missile-warhead detonated near Dzhezkazgan at 290-km altitude. The EMP fused 570 km of overhead telephone line with a measured current of 2,500 A, started a fire that burned down the Karaganda power plant, and shut down 1,000-km of shallow-buried power cables between Aqmola and Almaty"

"in July 1962 the Starfish Prime test damaged electronics in Honolulu and New Zealand (approximately 1,300 kilometers away), fused 300 street lights on Oahu (Hawaii), set off about 100 burglar alarms, and caused the failure of a microwave repeating station on Kauai, which cut off the sturdy telephone system from the other Hawaiian islands...Starfish Prime produced an artificial radiation belt in space which soon destroyed three satellites (Ariel, TRAAC, and Transit 4B all failed after traversing the radiation belt, while Cosmos V, Injun I and Telstar suffered minor degradation, due to some radiation damage to solar cells, etc.). The radiation dose rate was at least 60 rads/day at four months after Starfish for a well-shielded satellite or manned capsule in a polar circular earth orbit, which caused NASA concern with regard to its manned space exploration programs."

Starfish Prime was listed as 1.4 MT, but was probably a 2 stage device.

Am not pooh-poohing EMP, but if it was that big a deal, wonder why the 1950's and 1960's altitude tests didn't cause a lot more damage?

[Oh Shoot]

Three nukes at correct altitude could pretty much blanket US with EMP, and would likely be a MUCH more effective killer that way than if those were actually detonated at ground level. Millions would die instantly or within a week, all those dependent on electricity in one way or the other for ongoing health matters, all those in ICU or CC units in hospitals, etc.

Good chance that most of the planes in the air would be toast - there's likely three hundred thousand or so folks right there, depending on time of day. Think of all the instant death on the highways if everyone's car in the US simply shut down at speed, no way to estimate that carnage.

Anyway, likelihood of an EMP strike is debatable, but since only two or three nukes could blanket the continental US, it's a hell of an effective use of them. And since they could be shot from subs or ships rather than from land based, would also be easier to claim "plausible deniability" from the instigators -- assuming we had enough hardened electronic infrastructure to even pinpoint where they came from after the fact, period.

No ground radioactivity afterward, either; just in case anyone wanted to try a ground takeover afterward.

Anyway, One Second After is a helluva read.

It's set in Black Mountain/Asheville, NC, btw, where the author has taught for a long time (Montreat College).

- OS

[Rightwinger]

The reason US warheads declined in yield size was better targeting electronics and the need to go MIRV as a force multiplier when the "race" was on. Once we didn't need the mega-tonnage to make sure a near miss still destroyed the intended target, we just made more smaller nukes. Technology also helped there as we got better at getting full yield potential from the smaller thermonuclear weapons leading up to "dial a yield" allowing for a range of destruction from a single weapon so it didn't have to be targeted at just one type of target.

[Rightwinger]

And since they could be shot from subs or ships rather than from land based, would also be easier to claim "plausible deniability" from the instigators -- assuming we had enough hardened electronic infrastructure to even pinpoint where they came from after the fact, period.

No ground radioactivity afterward, either; just in case anyone wanted to try a ground takeover afterward.

- OS

There's the gambit. A terrorist or nation state willing to try this would have to worry "did they see us".

What we have left of our arsenal is shielded and if "they" want to come take over what's left of the US, they will have to swim as we can do the same to them. Makes you wonder if there are still some MAD scenarios collecting dust on a shelve in some underground bunker somewhere.

[kckndrgn]

I found it interesting how the leaders of the community decided to take from the cattle owners and the people who prepared for disasters for the good of the community.

Yes, they leaders "wanted" to, but they did not. It was decided that they would help provide protection for the cattle farmers in exchange for some cattle. The Prof also said it would be bad to go to the people that prepared and confiscate their food. Instead he offered that if the people that prepared wanted food coupons, then they would have to surrender any supplies they had.

What got me the prof. really only got to keep his car because of who he knew, and they almost lost it while going to the next town. Guess it would be time to go mad max and rig the car should it be stolen.

[G27]

There's the gambit. A terrorist or nation state willing to try this would have to worry "did they see us".

Which is why in the congressional testimonies that happened last year it was said the most commonly thought method of deployment would be from modified container ships off the US coastlines...

[G27]

As I recall the cows were used to make soup that you could use your coupon for. I think later in the book it talked about the survivalists parting with some of their goods.

It's been a while since I read it, so I could be mistaken, but I was thinking they debated taking the people's things, but decided not to, instead allowing them the option of keeping their stuff but not benefitting from the collectives' resources or giving part of their supplies to get the food coupons.

Seemed like a pretty good end to the debate, iirc.

And it's reason #4,293 that no one should know about your preps...

[Guest SUNTZU]

Yes, they leaders "wanted" to, but they did not. It was decided that they would help provide protection for the cattle farmers in exchange for some cattle. The Prof also said it would be bad to go to the people that prepared and confiscate their food. Instead he offered that if the people that prepared wanted food coupons, then they would have to surrender any supplies they had.

What got me the prof. really only got to keep his car because of who he knew, and they almost lost it while going to the next town. Guess it would be time to go mad max and rig the car should it be stolen.

Yeah, except they decided this without the farmers being in on it. Those five people in the room were going to provide protection to the farm? Or the army they planned on raising was going to protect the farm? Who asked who and who elected them? Not being argumentative, I'm just pointing out that some decided to "know what is best for everyone" in a crisis. The "ruling" of the "leaders" was made for the good of all. The "leaders" didn't have any way of protecting them unless they provided food for a standing "army" which they didn't have at the time. Without the "leaders" would anyone protect the town? Its the way it was written. I think its a great book but take the good and bad from it and learn.

It's been a while since I read it, so I could be mistaken, but I was thinking they debated taking the people's things, but decided not to, instead allowing them the option of keeping their stuff but not benefitting from the collectives' resources or giving part of their supplies to get the food coupons.

Seemed like a pretty good end to the debate, iirc.

And it's reason #4,293 that no one should know about your preps...

No one knowing about your preps is the first rule of prepping.

As for the debate, the same applies. A group of people decided not to take the stuff from the survivalists but they couldn't share in the collectives resources...the only problem being that the "leaders" decided to take stuff from all over to make their collective work. They did it to survive, but the fact remains that they DID take stuff from people to run the town. People will sacrifice liberty for safety as portrayed in the book. There is a deeper meaning in this book, in my opinion. Heed the deeper lesson as well as the one on the surface is all I'm saying. I do like the book and will read it again.

[G27]

As for the debate, the same applies. A group of people decided not to take the stuff from the survivalists but they couldn't share in the collectives resources...the only problem being that the "leaders" decided to take stuff from all over to make their collective work. They did it to survive, but the fact remains that they DID take stuff from people to run the town. People will sacrifice liberty for safety as portrayed in the book. There is a deeper meaning in this book, in my opinion. Heed the deeper lesson as well as the one on the surface is all I'm saying. I do like the book and will read it again.

Oh, I agree completely.

And I think it's a very accurate portrayal of the rationalizations we'd see in a similar situation.

It's also why preps include not only food, water, etc., but also firearms and ammo...

[Guest SUNTZU]

Yes sir.

[creeky]

Okay... I'm burning through this book at a mad pace. Can't put it down. I just reached the point about the discussion of the farmers cattle last night!

So far... this book is creeping me out! The similarities are really messing with my head. This takes place in Black Mountain! As in northeast of Asheville, as in just about two hours drive from where my Dad was raised and where I have family still and am leaving to visit tomorrow! Reading the names of towns I have heard of puts a really different spin on things.

The other bigger thing... main character has a daughter that is 12 and is a Type I diabetic. My 13 year old son is a Type I. Reading the part where he gets extra insulin from the pharmacy was... tough.

We keep extra insulin on hand. A few months. After reading this... not near enough! I have always joked with my wife that I wasn't worried about insulin should something bad happens... I always said I would steal insulin if it meant keeping my son alive. Never thought in my wildest dreams that there might not be any.

Gonna stop reading this thread until I finish the book, and maybe till I get back from my trip. Just so I don't accidently hear any spoilers.

[Dropkick Murphy]

Just ordered this from Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation.

[creeky]

Finished reading this today. Was out of town otherwise I would have finished it much sooner. I'll post a detailed review soon with a like from here to there.

Overall impression... very good on many levels.

Not really a "book club" guy, but I could see where guys who read this book could all talk about it for hours... easily!

[G27]

Not really a "book club" guy, but I could see where guys who read this book could all talk about it for hours... easily!

Great point. I agree.

[creeky]

Just posted my review about the book as a new thread.

[Guest Tiki Jane]

So far... this book is creeping me out! The similarities are really messing with my head. This takes place in Black Mountain! As in northeast of Asheville, as in just about two hours drive from where my Dad was raised and where I have family still and am leaving to visit tomorrow! Reading the names of towns I have heard of puts a really different spin on things.

I had the same problem reading "Lights Out" set in my hometown of San Antonio. I have super memories of just about every location he mentioned, including trail riding and Girl Scout camp around Uvalde.

Really brings it home, doesn't it...

[tyguy]

Great read. Thought provoking...and makes me want a new gun. Maybe I should trick the wife into reading it.

[creeky]

It was kind of creepy driving down I-24 past bonnaroo that Thursday and seeing 12 miles of cars sitting on both sides of the interstate too!