House overrides veto on SB3012!!

[Mike.357]

I did pay my permit fee, but I don't believe there should be one.

.

and thats all I was saying

[tntnixon]

I'll bet a few of the 30 are from Memphis.

After looking at the list, it is indeed the same people who want felons to vote.

So they want felons to vote, but honest citizens should not have the right to protect themselves against said felons.

[G27]

So they want felons to vote, but honest citizens should not have the right to protect themselves against said felons.

Honest citizens didn't vote for them...

[Guest Straight Shooter]

The ones who want felons to vote, know most of the felons, the very few who vote anyway, vote for the Demorat party.

I watched the vote last night, and HARDAWAY made a complete ass of himself, along with the old, racist black woman who spoke before him. THEY are the ones who keep the "race" issue alive and kicking.

[Fallguy]

Look under the "votes" links here: Tennessee General Assembly

Here are the Senators' votes:

Senators voting to overturn the veto: Barnes, Beavers, Black, Bunch, Burchett, Crowe, Faulk, Finney L, Gresham, Herron, Jackson, Johnson, Kelsey, Ketron, McNally, Norris, Overbey, Southerland, Tracy, Watson, Woodson, Yager, Mr. Speaker Ramsey –– 23.

Senators voting against your liberty: Berke, Burks, Ford, Harper, Haynes, Henry, Kyle, Marrero, Stewart, Tate –– 10.

Here are the Representatives' votes

Representatives voting to overturn the veto: Barker, Bass, Bell, Bone, Brooks H, Brooks K, Campfield, Carr, Casada, Cobb J, Cobb T, Coley, Dean, DeBerry J, Dennis, Dunn, Eldridge, Evans, Faulkner, Ferguson, Fincher, Floyd, Ford, Fraley, Hackworth, Halford, Harrison, Hawk, Haynes, Hensley, Hill, Johnson P, Litz, Lollar, Lundberg, Lynn, Maddox, Maggart, Marsh, Matheny, Matlock, McCormick, McDaniel, McDonald, McManus, Montgomery, Moore, Mumpower, Niceley, Ramsey, Rich, Roach, Rowland, Sargent, Shepard, Shipley, Swafford, Tidwell, Todd, Watson, Weaver, West, White, Winningham, Yokley, Mr. Speaker Williams –– 66.

Representatives voting to further endanger you: Armstrong, Borchert, Brown, Camper, Coleman, Cooper, Curtiss, DeBerry L, Favors, Fitzhugh, Gilmore, Hardaway, Harmon, Harwell, Jones S, Jones U, Kernell, McCord, Miller, Naifeh, Odom, Pitts, Pruitt, Richardson, Shaw, Sontany, Stewart, Tindell, Towns, Turner J, Turner M –– 31.

That wasn't the override vote, it was the original one. The override only had 30 Nays.

Correct, the override votes aren't showing on that page yet.

[Worriedman]

And that is why this is a bad bill. Now any retard can post the symbol without a second thought (probably with stickers given from a chamber of commerce) and poof you are now a criminal if you carry there.

This bill should have:

a. Determined what was a restaurant and what was a bar.

HB 0499 is a good start on that, will for sure raise insurance rates now that we have a tiered fee schedule.

b. Made the sign have to be a certain size, color, and wording, and mandatory placement. Similar to Texas.

c. Passed only allowing carry in a restaurant, not in a bar.

In an ideal world, the property owners could have no say in if you carry, similar to how they had no say in banning smoking.

Each property owner HAS a say in banning smoking. They can institute a 21 year old age restriction, and allow smoking. In other words they have a choice, under certain restrictions.

[Guest david_g17]

Tennessee House overrides guns-in-bars veto | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

The House on Friday joined the Senate in overriding Gov. Phil Bredesen's veto of a bill that lets handgun carry permit holders take their weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.

House members voted 61-30 for the override as they tried to wrap up business for the night. The override was expected — the legislation had cleared both chambers by wide margins — and lawmakers held no debate before voting.

"I have a speech prepared here, but ladies and gentlemen, I'm not going to read it," the bill's sponsor, Rep. Curry Todd of Collierville, said when offered the chance to speak. "You know how you're going to vote."

Previous law let people with handgun carry permits take their weapons into restaurants that do not serve alcohol. Under the new law, permit holders will be able to take a handgun into any bar or restaurant, but they are not allowed to drink while carrying.

Bars and restaurants can opt out of the law by posting a sign banning handguns at the door. Nashville attorney David Randolph Smith said servers who work in restaurants considered unlikely to prohibit guns intend to file a complaint stating the new law violates state workplace safety regulations.

— CHAS SISK

[Fallguy]

Guys, I'm not sure where this requirement for having a public chapter number is coming from... but SB3012 appears to be law as of last night... Here are the important bits from the state constitution.

Here is the part about passing bills normally... Note the very last part in bold... It will be important for the next section...

§ 18. Bills becoming law A bill shall become law when it has been considered and passed on three different days in each House and on third and final consideration has received the assent of a majority of all the members to which each House is entitled under this Constitution, when the respective speakers have signed the bill with the date of such signing appearing in the journal, and when the bill has been approved by the Governor or otherwise passed under the provisions of this Constitution.

Here is the part about vetos and overriding them...

§ 18. Approval or veto of bills; line item veto Every Bill which may pass both Houses of the General Assembly shall, before it becomes a law, be presented to the Governor for his signature. If he approve, he shall sign it, and the same shall become a law; but if he refuse to sign it, he shall return it with his objections thereto, in writing, to the House in which it originated; and said House shall cause said objections to be entered at large upon its journal, and proceed to reconsider the Bill. If after such reconsideration, as majority of all the members elected to that House shall agree to pass the Bill, notwithstanding the objections of the Executive, it shall be sent, with said objections, to the other House, by which it shall be likewise reconsidered. If approved by a majority of the whole number elected to that House, it shall become a law. The votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of all the members voting for or against the Bill shall be entered upon the journals of their respective Houses.

You'll note that the bill only has to be signed by both speakers BEFORE sending the bill to the Governor... On over ridding a veto, it clearly says once passed by both houses it shall become law. It doesn't say once submitted to the Sec of State and it's issued a public chapter number... Unless there is a state law I'm missing, it sure appears as if SB3012 is the law of the land as of last night...

Anybody care to point to why they think we have to wait on a public chapter before carrying?

I tend to think you are correct JayC.

I mean if the Gov signs a bill, it becomes law at that moment and doesn't have to wait to be assigned a Public Chapter number.

This bill was vetoed, but the actions necessary to override that veto have been done, so as you point out, it has finished it's constitutional journey to become law.

I'm going to guess that it is from the NRA post that some think it needs to be assigned a Public Chapter number first.....but it wouldn't be the first time the NRA was a little off on all of this.

Of course....if you go out tonight and are made for some reason, if an officer doesn't know the law has changed, you really don't have anything to show him it has like you will after the Public Chapter number is assigned and it posted to the state's website (Tennessee Department of State: Publications) and you can print it out.

[Fallguy]

About time, now where is a single source document that explains where I can carry in Tenn.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-law-faq/13408-reference-material-some-basic-questions.html

[tntnixon]

Tennessee House overrides guns-in-bars veto | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

The House on Friday joined the Senate in overriding Gov. Phil Bredesen's veto of a bill that lets handgun carry permit holders take their weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.

House members voted 61-30 for the override as they tried to wrap up business for the night. The override was expected — the legislation had cleared both chambers by wide margins — and lawmakers held no debate before voting.

"I have a speech prepared here, but ladies and gentlemen, I'm not going to read it," the bill's sponsor, Rep. Curry Todd of Collierville, said when offered the chance to speak. "You know how you're going to vote."

Previous law let people with handgun carry permits take their weapons into restaurants that do not serve alcohol. Under the new law, permit holders will be able to take a handgun into any bar or restaurant, but they are not allowed to drink while carrying.

Bars and restaurants can opt out of the law by posting a sign banning handguns at the door. Nashville attorney David Randolph Smith said servers who work in restaurants considered unlikely to prohibit guns intend to file a complaint stating the new law violates state workplace safety regulations.

— CHAS SISK

After an exhaustive search, I can find no provisions of either the federal or state law that considers firearms as a occupational safety concern. Actually, this was brought up before in federal court and OSHA refused to address firearm concerns at all.

[Worriedman]

They are reaching, actually grasping would be a better description, for anything to subvert the law.

[Fallguy]

After an exhaustive search, I can find no provisions of either the federal or state law that considers firearms as a occupational safety concern. Actually, this was brought up before in federal court and OSHA refused to address firearm concerns at all.

Yep....could be wrong, but I think this is a last gasp effort...and just trying to keep it in the media a bit longer.....

[eapking]

After looking at the list, it is indeed the same people who want felons to vote.

So they want felons to vote, but honest citizens should not have the right to protect themselves against said felons.

Yep...you got it. What I heard someone (African American, btw) say once ..."Ghetto Logic".

[mikegideon]

Tennessee House overrides guns-in-bars veto | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

The House on Friday joined the Senate in overriding Gov. Phil Bredesen's veto of a bill that lets handgun carry permit holders take their weapons into bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.

House members voted 61-30 for the override as they tried to wrap up business for the night. The override was expected — the legislation had cleared both chambers by wide margins — and lawmakers held no debate before voting.

"I have a speech prepared here, but ladies and gentlemen, I'm not going to read it," the bill's sponsor, Rep. Curry Todd of Collierville, said when offered the chance to speak. "You know how you're going to vote."

Previous law let people with handgun carry permits take their weapons into restaurants that do not serve alcohol. Under the new law, permit holders will be able to take a handgun into any bar or restaurant, but they are not allowed to drink while carrying.

Bars and restaurants can opt out of the law by posting a sign banning handguns at the door. Nashville attorney David Randolph Smith said servers who work in restaurants considered unlikely to prohibit guns intend to file a complaint stating the new law violates state workplace safety regulations.

— CHAS SISK

When are these idiots going to give up??? Where are they going to find real world evidence that it endangers workers?

[eapking]

They won't give up anytime soon.

[Guest david_g17]

When are these idiots going to give up??? Where are they going to find real world evidence that it endangers workers?

Look at it this way: they're giving us legal precedent to use in the future.

[mikegideon]

Look at it this way: they're giving us legal precedent to use in the future.

But, that's a big part of the question. We're not exactly trail blazing with this law. Lots of states came before us. Precedent should already be there.

[TNRobocop]

I would like to see where other states allow carry into a bar.

Not saying that there is, but I have lived in GA, TN, AL, and OK and cannot recall any states that allowed carry into a bar.

But IIRC those states also layed out exactly what is and what isn't a bar or restaurant.

Anybody have a reference for allowing carry into a bar in any other states?

[Fallguy]

I would like to see where other states allow carry into a bar.

Not saying that there is, but I have lived in GA, TN, AL, and OK and cannot recall any states that allowed carry into a bar.

But IIRC those states also layed out exactly what is and what isn't a bar or restaurant.

Anybody have a reference for allowing carry into a bar in any other states?

Well legally speaking TN is not allowing carry in bars, as there are not bars in TN, but I know what you're asking...

There may be an easier way, but if you have the time, you can go to handgunlaw.us and they link to each states' laws and you can check them for yourself to see if there are exemptions only for restaurant or no prohibition period, like in TN.

To be honest...I like the complete repeal of 39-17-1305, not so much because of allowing carry in "bars" but allowing it in other places that aren't bars or restaurants, but serve.

Below is a map of states with Restaurant carry according to opencarry.org

Didn't take them long to add TN...

Edited June 5, 2010 by Fallguy

[gotigers]

The employees working at non posted businesses has the right to seek employment at another business. No one is being denied safety or the right to work. There will be plenty of businesses that will be posted. The employees can work there.

They are more likely to be robbed or assaulted going to or from their employment by criminals than harassed by permit carries in a business.

it depends if they can get in front of a friendly lib judge.

[TNRobocop]

Well legally speaking TN is not allowing carry in bars, as there are not bars in TN, but I know what you're asking...

There may be an easier way, but if you have the time, you can go to handgunlaw.us and they link to each states' laws and you can check them for yourself to see if there are exemptions only for restaurant or no prohibition period, like in TN.

To be honest...I like the complete repeal of 39-17-1305, not so much because of allowing carry in "bars" but allowing it in other places that aren't bars or restaurants, but serve.

Below is a map of states with Restaurant carry according to opencarry.org

Didn't take them long to add TN...

I agree totally that we should be allowed to carry in any restaurant. Should not matter that it serves alcohol or not. It should also not be a crime to carry into one, posted or not. The only authority is that the owner should be allowed to ask you to leave, not make a criminal out of an otherwise legal and peaceful person. Just like any other right for a property owner.

If I get the time, I will check out the link. Now that the law is on the books for now, it's time to regulate the difference between bars and restaurants and strip out the gunbuster sign and make the owners actually put in the effort to post correctly.

I think the map is incorrect for Oklahoma and maybe Alabama. We had CCW there, not open carry IIRC.

[Fallguy]

The employees working at non posted businesses has the right to seek employment at another business. No one is being denied safety or the right to work. There will be plenty of businesses that will be posted. The employees can work there.

They are more likely to be robbed or assaulted going to or from their employment by criminals than harassed by permit carries in a business.

it depends if they can get in front of a friendly lib judge.

I don't know for sure...but I don't think the idea behind the suit is that those who carry are dangerous per se...in other words it is not necessarily dangerous to work in a place where people can carry. But that it is dangerous to work in a place where people can carry and those people have ready access to alcohol....and that if these armed people consume (whether it's against the law or not) that then there is a danger.

Now I agree they can just go elsewhere to work, I'm just saying I don't think the suit is just about guns in the workplace...but about workplaces where alcohol is.

But as far as that goes...there are some states that allow consumption while armed and haven't heard of any prevailing law suits in those states....so really don't think this is going to go too far.....or at least I hope not.

[Fallguy]

I think the map is incorrect for Oklahoma and maybe Alabama. We had CCW there, not open carry IIRC.

The map is from opencarry.org, but it is for restaurant carry, not open carry. I think the only reason it makes a distinction on a few states on OC or CC only is that in general both are allowed in those states, but that you have to do one or the other in places that serve alcohol. If a state is CC only, then of course you could only CC in a restaurant in that state.

However one note on AL...those permits are issued by the local sheriff who can, and some do, impose restrictions on the permit. Among those restrictions can be no carry where alcohol is served. Now this does not apply to non-AL residents as there is no state law that prohibits it, but if you a AL resident, you AL permit could have that restriction.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Fallguy

[TNRobocop]

The map is from opencarry.org, but it is for restaurant carry, not open carry. I think the only reason it makes a distinction on a few states on OC or CC only is that in general both are allowed in those states, but that you have to do one or the other in places that serve alcohol. If a state is CC only, then of course you could only CC in a restaurant in that state.

However one note on AL...those permits are issued by the local sheriff who can, and some do, impose restrictions on the permit. Among those restrictions can be no carry where alcohol is served. Now this does not apply to non-AL residents as there is no state law that prohibits it, but if you a AL resident, you AL permit could have that restriction.

I know when I lived in AL, you just went to the sheriff's office, paid $20, filled out a form, came back about two weeks later and got your permit.

This was back in 1997 so who know now. Mine was out of Birmingham/Jefferson County and was $7.50 at one time, but was raised to help pay for a SO police academy.

They didn't require a security license either. You just had to have your CCW permit and you could work as a security guard. Heck they just now allowed SBS/SBR NFA.

But I digress.

[JayC]

Well personally... I'd carry a copy of the newspaper if need be An officer would have to be hiding under a rock to not know about this veto override.

Honestly I think carry is completely safe right this second as long as the location is not posted. No DA in their right mind would try to split hairs over when a bill technically went into effect ... the bill passed is is now the law of the land, go out and enjoy...

Just remember to be back here in a couple of weeks so we can all start focusing on getting rid of 40 legislators who need to loose their jobs come Nov, and then we can focus on repealing even more of the silly restrictive gun laws next sessions which continue to violate our rights protected under the US and TN constitutions

I tend to think you are correct JayC.

I mean if the Gov signs a bill, it becomes law at that moment and doesn't have to wait to be assigned a Public Chapter number.

This bill was vetoed, but the actions necessary to override that veto have been done, so as you point out, it has finished it's constitutional journey to become law.

I'm going to guess that it is from the NRA post that some think it needs to be assigned a Public Chapter number first.....but it wouldn't be the first time the NRA was a little off on all of this.

Of course....if you go out tonight and are made for some reason, if an officer doesn't know the law has changed, you really don't have anything to show him it has like you will after the Public Chapter number is assigned and it posted to the state's website (Tennessee Department of State: Publications) and you can print it out.