BP Oil spill is NOT 'Epic'. Not even close.

[Oh Shoot]

I wonder if anyone is actually checking this sudden 250,000 gallons of oil the new top hat is supposedly siphoning up per day?

Like, to see if that volume is 70% sea water or something.

That's MY confidence level in BP at this point.

- OS

[Guest Straight Shooter]

What gets me, is BP has an absolutely proveable, un-deniable track record of DEATHS & INJURIES, of spills, and of every imaginable piss poor safety violations, but to YOU, Rightwinger...THIS time lets wait and see how it turns out. THIS time..itll be different. I knew from about day1, that somehow, the American taxpayer was gonna foot this bill...no matter what. And you seriously ask "what does their record have to do with anything"? Are you ill? Since you like to propose things and ideas...like some reatarded thing about me moving cause your a planner and I couldnt do it or some such, answer this.

Your on a jury , in a trial of a man up for child rape/murder. This man has a PREVIOUS record of molestation, and one attempted murder years ago. In YOUR mind Rightwinger...NOT what the law says... but YOUR mind...does that have ANY bearing on what your verdict will be? Id love to hear your answer on this. And Ill tell you what else that I would take into account as far as BP goes, if I were on the jury.

1. The fact that for DAYS they denied there was any major problem.

2. The fact that they only put up that 24/7 camera only after INTENSE pressure to do so.

3. The fact that..barring the CEOyou said you saw...MOST of the BP executives will not give interviews still.

4. BP reported before the spill to the U.S. Government, that they had the skill, equipment and know how to handle a spill TEN TIMES.....10 TIMES..bigger than whats out there now.

5. Their initial claim that, because they didnt 'manufacter" or "own" the equipment out there, they shouldnt be held liable.. or "as liable".

6.The past dismal safety record of DOZENS killed & HUNDREDS injured.

7. Millions and millions of dollars paid in criminal and civil fines.

You know "rightwinger"....I could go on and on all night. I have nearly done so.

You yourself have brought NOTHING legitimate to this debate, except personal attack, and, oh...LETS WAIT AND SEE. Then you LUDICROUSLY quote the U.S. Constitution to me, like your some ACLU lawyer. Ive read it more than you ,my friend.

Your argument is, and has been weak. You are, and have been.. wrong.

It is my FERVENT hope, that after paying fines, restitution and clean up expenses, that BP will be as extinct as the jobs and livelihoods they have destroyed. If that means THEIR employees must lose their jobs....just keep quoting ole EL Rushbo. THEY WERENT ENTITLED TO THEM ANYWAY.

I hereby leave this debate permanently, having won.

[G27]

I hereby leave this debate permanently, having won.

What are you, 13?

Wait, you've (thankfully) left, nevermind...

[Guest mosinon]

BP purchased that from someone right? Still their fault. We do not know but its a big company with lots of money so they should pay pay pay!

[/quote=Rightwinger;539024]

Yeah, pretty much still their fault. When Ford sells you a car Ford is vouching for the car's safety. Sure the brakes comes from a subcontractor but Ford is saying "Hey, we made this, and it is safe"

BP has the same recourse (and I don't work in logistics) as every other person or company. If they were mislead they can sue the subcontractor. I don't recall the exact number but ten years ago it was contractually stated that if GM was shut down because they ran out of your parts it would cost three thousand dollars a minute.

SO companies are used to relying on subcontractors and such. These are risks companies willingly take. They are fully aware of the liability, they have people that calculate this kind of thing.

Typical thinking in America today. There's a tragedy but it must be someone with money that caused it.

[/quote=Rightwinger;539024]

In this particular case it is some company with money that is responsible.

If someone came along and ruined your business you would expect to be compensated. If you made $100,000 fishing last year and this year you made 0$ because of the oil slick you'd be owed some dough. It may be an accident but that accident impacts other people.

There is no reason to prefer the big business over the small business in this case.

But let's put a really fine point on this. You buy a gun, it malfs every other time you shoot it. Do you send the gun back to the manufacturer to get fixed or do you send it to the the company that manufactured the springs for the magazines?

[mikegideon]

How do you suggest that they start paying? Just cut the checks to folks based on the phone book? Peter Zacharia is gonna be pissed! How much should it be? 2K, 4K?

True claims of damages would need to be documented. That's generally the province of the judicial system. That's what I have been saying all along! Lets get it stopped, get the cleanup in full gear and let BP pay for all that as they say they will and get the ball running for a series of claims centers, which I believe should definitely not be run by BP or the US government as they are both players or litigants and have it ready to go once the facts are determined.

This should cut down on fraud from the riff raff that always shows up when big money is in play and protect those that will have claims against those at fault.

There is a claim system in place. No lawsuits rerquired

[mikegideon]

I wonder if anyone is actually checking this sudden 250,000 gallons of oil the new top hat is supposedly siphoning up per day?

Like, to see if that volume is 70% sea water or something.

That's MY confidence level in BP at this point.

- OS

Should be 100% crude.

[Rightwinger]

Your on a jury , in a trial of a man up for child rape/murder. This man has a PREVIOUS record of molestation, and one attempted murder years ago. In YOUR mind Rightwinger...NOT what the law says... but YOUR mind...does that have ANY bearing on what your verdict will be? Id love to hear your answer on this.

I'll hear the facts of the case and make a judgment based on what I see and hear. Any intelligent person would. These are the same rules you would demand at any trial you were the accused in. Why should they be different unless you just make up the rules according to Straight Shooter.

And Ill tell you what else that I would take into account as far as BP goes, if I were on the jury.

1. The fact that for DAYS they denied there was any major problem.

You mean besides the burning rig and the injured people that they couldn't deny? What were they hiding? They didn't know any more than anyone else on the scene. Until the oil continued to be in the area and they got some ROV's on scene they could only sit on the surface and wonder like the rest of us.

2. The fact that they only put up that 24/7 camera only after INTENSE pressure to do so.

No win situation for them here. To put it up immediately inflames people like you all that much quicker. To deny access inflames you as well. It's on now.

3. The fact that..barring the CEOyou said you saw...MOST of the BP executives will not give interviews still.

How many people does it take to push out the info? Heck, most police departments use a PR or Spokesperson to push out their info. The top dog is standing there taking it. He's done for unless they get this stopped soon and the clean up is successful. He's probably done for anyway.

4. BP reported before the spill to the U.S. Government, that they had the skill, equipment and know how to handle a spill TEN TIMES.....10 TIMES..bigger than whats out there now.

What day? What info did they have at the time of that statement? Willis could add more to this but he's busy fixing the problem. That little logistics thing sticks it's ugly head in there again. You had to get the ROV's operators, engineers and other support folks in there to make the determination. I would still say that an oil company should know more about taking care of this than, oh, say a guy in south middle Tennessee sitting at his computer.

5. Their initial claim that, because they didnt 'manufacter" or "own" the equipment out there, they shouldnt be held liable.. or "as liable".

You have seen this time after time. Brakes fail on a Toyota, they buy the brakes from a supplier. Toyota will go after the source of the negligence but they have the big money, not the smaller supplier. Guess who gets sued? The BOP failed. BP purchased it from someone or bought the parts to put it together. Again to my point...we need to know why it failed and all the other facts to determine negligence and who is the root cause of it. What are you going to say when BP produces the safety inspection from DOE or other regulatory agency that says the BOP passed their safety tests? That's speculation and wrong but you like to keep hammering me so a little speculation as an example of what could happen from me seems appropriate.

6.The past dismal safety record of DOZENS killed & HUNDREDS injured.

And that will be taken into account when facts are presented I'm sure.

They suck, point taken.

7. Millions and millions of dollars paid in criminal and civil fines.

Found guilty and damages assessed. Again they suck but somehow there was enough demand for their product that someone wanted them to keep drilling and producing. Know anyone close to you that uses gas, oil, plastic, etc...?

You know "rightwinger"....I could go on and on all night. I have nearly done so. So true!

You yourself have brought NOTHING legitimate to this debate, except personal attack, (the one where I asked if you were injured as a young person or the one where I speculated that your textual vomitus was issuing from your lower opening? Nothing personal, just an opinion of how I thought your argument was proceeding) and, oh...LETS WAIT AND SEE.

What's your plan. I have articulated mine, still waiting for yours, the one besides KILL BP.

Then you LUDICROUSLY quote the U.S. Constitution to me, like your some ACLU lawyer.

No the ACLU picks and chooses which laws and which cases it wishes to befriend. I choose only the Constitution and it's amendments as they are presented to be the basis of my arugument...for everyone, even you, and even BP. If you won't let them have their protection under the law then we need no law. You do like law, right Straight?

Ive read it more than you ,my friend.

Statement not supported by the evidence at hand I'm afraid.

Your argument is, and has been weak. You are, and have been.. wrong.

So your argument to boycott BP to "hurt them" and support people who are out jobs by killing jobs locally is a good one? You have stated no plan on how to compensate those that are suffering. You can't fathom the fact that if they are found negligent that your plan on running them to extinction destroys the only method they might have to repay in full. Yeah, I'm wrong. I'm not taking the time to think it out to the fullest. I'll join you with the pitchforks and torches. Geez.

It is my FERVENT hope, that after paying fines, restitution and clean up expenses, that BP will be as extinct as the jobs and livelihoods they have destroyed. If that means THEIR employees must lose their jobs....just keep quoting ole EL Rushbo. THEY WERENT ENTITLED TO THEM ANYWAY.

I'm sure the smart ones are already moving on to other locations or companies now. The ones waiting for "someone to do something" need a copy of your contract for entitled jobs. Good word there for you, entitlement. It seems fitting.

I hereby leave this debate permanently, having won.

Congratulations!

[Oh Shoot]

Should be 100% crude.

Trust but verify.

- OS

[Rightwinger]

Trust but verify.

- OS

Most definitely!

[Rightwinger]

Oh, I was going to post this link days ago but got sidetracked by something.

Good info for the "non rough neck/oil engineer" on the why it happened.

I really want to see the data, especially if they have a black box type record, of what happened that day. It's a PDF file so you will be downloading. No virus noted on my machine but I am not the source.

http://media.nola.com/news_impact/other/oil-cause-050710.pdf

[mikegideon]

Trust but verify.

- OS

It would be hard for water to get in once they close the vent pipes. It's a loose seal, but it's still under pressure. The excess escaping oil will push the water back. Not saying a little may not get in, but it will be insignificant.

I don't trust them at all, but physics is physics.

[Guest Bronker]

...yawn...

Edited June 6, 2010 by Bronker

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Oh, please, enough of the straw man sarcasm - I simply said it appears they may be more interested in their investment than killing it off in orde to stop the leak.

Evil BP? Armchair QBing?

You must have me confused with someone else...

Actually, it was just the first sentence I was asking you. Sorry for the confusion.

[mikegideon]

Oh, I was going to post this link days ago but got sidetracked by something.

Good info for the "non rough neck/oil engineer" on the why it happened.

I really want to see the data, especially if they have a black box type record, of what happened that day. It's a PDF file so you will be downloading. No virus noted on my machine but I am not the source.

http://media.nola.com/news_impact/other/oil-cause-050710.pdf

Thanks for posting this. Lots of good information. Fills in a few blanks. It goes back to the testimony of the Transocean guy, who said there was a catastrophic failure of the casing or cement.

It's the most detail I've seen. Here's some armchair quarterbacking... My guess is, after the entire investigation is put to bed:

1. They will require redundant shear rams, spaced such that one can never be over a joint. I think this is already required in some countries.

2. They will require government review of the shear ram design calculations with the specific type of driil pipe. They may include the capability of cutting the drill pipe with a cement plug fragment.

3. They were aware that the shear ram wouldn't cut thru a pipe joint, so the lack of a redundant ram really was a safety/cost tradeoff. The devil is gonna be in the details. If the BOP was built to government spec, they are probably off the hook for that part of it.

BTW... They have already said that all data on the rig was lost. All they have is the data that was transmitted to shore, and it's so sparse that it's almost useless.