Springfield EMP

[Kano]

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Edited August 14, 2008 by Kano

[Guest Boomhower]

150 more rds of WWB 115gr......I hope this isn't a tale of things to come. When I started shooting this evening, it was like I had never picked up this pistol before. I don't know what the deal was. Maybe it just didn't like the 30 degree weather .

I'm not good with all the terminology and am not even going to try to say them, so if any of you feel like describing the malfunctions pictured below, feel free to do so.

#1 - This happened about 10 times

#2 - This usually happened the very next round after I cleared the above malfunction and chambered, then fired that chambered round.

#3 - I believe this is called a stovepipe???? 3 times.

#4 - Out of the 17 magazine's that where ran during the 150 rds., approximately 10 of them the slide did not lock back after the last round was spent. But everytime I stick an empty magazine in the gun and pull the slide back, regardless of how fast or slow it locks.

#5 - 3 times a round never chambered even though there were rounds in the magazine.

#6 - Twice the firing pin never made contact with the primer.

#'s 1 thru 5 almost make me think that maybe the 115 gr. loads are not a heavy enough load to cycle the slide fully, causing the slide to close to early.......Anyone have any words of advice or encouragement for me? From all the problems I've been reading about on these EMP's, all of these seem to be par for the course. Looks like I wasn't one of the lucky one's and this little beaut will have to go back to Springfield , but I plan on running several hundred more rounds thru it before I make that phone call. I think I'm going to try some different ammo though for these next rounds. Anyone have any suggestions on which other type to use???

[Guest dotsun]

That sux Boom, I'd send it back to Springfield. I can't for the life of me figure out how that #2 pic could occur. You sure about that one?

[Guest Mugster]

I had one of springfield's ultra compacts...got it new some years back and finally sold it about 3 months ago. The only firearm I've ever sold, if that tells you anything.

Gun design is a compromise. They design those things to fire hot self defense ammo, and thus they have a heavy recoil spring. Combine that with low power ammo/short barrel and possibly a slightly loose hold and thats what you get. I was in the same boat you are in now about 6 or 7 years ago.

Here's what you do. First lube it up heavy. Second, hold the thing in a 2 handed death grip and see if it will run or lock it in a vise if you have one. These pistols cannot be fired one handed. Or at least, I cannot do it.

Things you can do:

1. Consider a lightweight recoil spring for plinking ammo

2. Continue shooting it. Once you get a couple K through it, it should behaive a bit better.

3. Put in way heavy mag springs. Or shim the springs you have now. Although looks like it feeds pretty good.

[Guest Boomhower]

That sux Boom, I'd send it back to Springfield. I can't for the life of me figure out how that #2 pic could occur. You sure about that one?

Positive. Happen'd just as I explained it almost every time I had a #1 malfunction.

[Guest dotsun]

Wow, that's the strangest thing I've ever seen, almost like it flipped up from the magazine right into the ejection port. Well if it makes you feel any better I took my 1911 out yesterday and had a few probs with it, too. I'm back to hoping that it's mag related.

[Guest dotsun]

Hey Boom, you might check this link out for some jam pics and causes: http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52142&an=0&page=0#52142

[willis68]

The only time i have ever seen anything like that, it has came from sub 4 inch Barrelled 1911's, while I am no gunsmith, I know a few good ones that will not even work on a 1911 with less than a 4 inch barrel, while they are convenient to carry,Smaller, light weight, there simply is not enough room for the slide to travel as far as it was designed to, I wish you the best of luck with it,

[Guest Boomhower]

Thanks for the advice.

Gun design is a compromise. They design those things to fire hot self defense ammo, and thus they have a heavy recoil spring. Combine that with low power ammo/short barrel and possibly a slightly loose hold and thats what you get. I was in the same boat you are in now about 6 or 7 years ago.

Those are my thoughts exactly when I am shooting this gun. When I ran the 124 gr. Hornaday TAP's thru it, it felt great. Quick, snappy, and crisp. Kinda feels a bit sluggish with the 115 gr. WWB's

Here's what you do. First lube it up heavy. Second, hold the thing in a 2 handed death grip and see if it will run or lock it in a vise if you have one. These pistols cannot be fired one handed. Or at least, I cannot do it.

Not quite understanding everything here. I fired a couple magazine's one handed and I only remember one of the #1's I listed above.

1. Consider a lightweight recoil spring for plinking ammo

I bought this for the purpose of becoming my CW once it has proven itself. Can't I just shot heavier loads for plinking and practining since most carry ammo is load hotter anyway? I really don't want to have to change out the recoil sping for practice and carry.

2. Continue shooting it. Once you get a couple K through it, it should behaive a bit better.

I've heard 1911 style guns take more break in time.

3. Put in way heavy mag springs. Or shim the springs you have now. Although looks like it feeds pretty good.

Yes, it seems to be feeding just fine. If only the slide could keep up with it.

[Guest Boomhower]

Hey Boom, you might check this link out for some jam pics and causes: http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52142&an=0&page=0#52142

That's a great resource for me....thxs man.

The only time i have ever seen anything like that, it has came from sub 4 inch Barrelled 1911's, while I am no gunsmith, I know a few good ones that will not even work on a 1911 with less than a 4 inch barrel, while they are convenient to carry,Smaller, light weight, there simply is not enough room for the slide to travel as far as it was designed to, I wish you the best of luck with it,

thxs....If the problem's do not go away in time and with more spent rounds, Springfield will be my gunsmith. I'm willing to give them a few tries before I move on.

[Guest Mugster]

Reread your last comment to me. Any limp wristing at all is magnified in these pieces. In that .45 ultra compact i had, I could count on a couple problems shooting it one handed no matter how "hard" my hold was. 2 handed no problem once i understood how to shoot the little beastie. I cause it to jam at will almost by slightly loosening my hold.

All that stuff I suggested helps the pistol catch up the whip and "lets you get away with more". Hotter ammo will help. Just try holding it in a death grip and watch the pistol when you shoot it. Don't worry about aiming too much, probably need a large outdoor range for this. You'll notice as your hold gets losser and lets the pistol whip up, thats when you get your problems. Locking it in a vise would prove that it is you and not the pistol. Thats what i did and I couldn't believe mine didn't jam in the vice.

Although the lube is, well, just lube. Wet and hot is always better...

[Guest Boomhower]

What kind of lube. Grease or oil?

[Guest Mugster]

Heh...only ky jelly big boy

You should use both, but i only rarely do this on a 1911 these days. My pistols lead easy lives and only see 50-100 shots between cleanings.

There's a couple paragraphs here on lubing and where to put it. I believe this is the correct thing to do. I would go heavier on the oil right before a range session. A little bit of grease goes a long way though. I think any high temp grease should do the trick, but these pistol guys like the expensive stuff:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=424

More opinion:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/break-in.htm

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/fluffandbuff.htm

[Guest Boomhower]

I was finally able to put a 100 more rds. thru the EMP today. That puts the total rd. count up to 400. This time I took different ammo, even after a bad review from the salesman that sold it to me. Remington UMC 115 gr. FMJ. I was told that it was extremely dirty ammo. I did not find this to be true. It might have left a little more powder residue, but it was twice as easy to clean up and wife off. After the 300 rds. of WWB (150 / cleaning / 150 more / cleaning) I still had some gummy or sticky residue left on the feed ramp that I assumed to just be a scratched up feed ramp. I'm assuming that the gunky feed ramp was the biggest source of my feeding problems. Either way, I bought a dremel, and polished the feed ramp, and removed all the gunk, restoring it to an almost mirror finish. Enough rambling....

Remington UMC 115 gr. FMJ - absolutely no feeding issue's , no light firing pin to primer issue's, and only 3 times did the slide not lock back after an empty magazine. Once was during rapid fire, once during slow fire, and the other I don't exactly recall.

On a side note, I have heard people talk about the smaller framed 1911's (3") having feeding issue's related to limp wristing. I shot an entire clip (9 shots) with as loose of a grip as I could afford without dropping the gun and had nary a mis-feed. Although twice, it came close to jumping out of my hand.

It was a most uplifting time today, as the EMP is a very sweet shooter, as long as the moons and your mouth are both aligned just so. Pokey was with me and said it could be like a Honda, and just didn't like the cold weather the last time out. (35 +/- degrees).....anywho, bottoms up. It's been a good day for me.

[Guest flyfishtn]

Congrats on the update and the good results!

[towerclimber37]

Grease!

Grease is good because it stays on the weapon longer.

[Guest Boomhower]

100 more rounds of WWB 115 gr. FMJ's. That's a total round count of 500. Had one FTE (during the only magazine I was not shooting), and the slide did not lock back on the last four magazines........Same as last time, prior to my range trip, I cleaned and oiled the gun, and buffed the feed ramp. This is the same ammo that I used on range trip #2 when I had all the feeding issue's. This was before I started buffing the ramp, and the past 2 range trips have spoken for themselves.

I think (read: HOPE) my EMP is starting to get broken in a little bit. I'm still debating sending it back. If it keeps shooting like it is now, the only issues that I will have are the slide not locking back, the magazine catch release (which I can handle myself), and the front sight (which I can get a local smith to fix).

[towerclimber37]

Boom, I'm seeing the same problems you are..I spoke to a guy up at gunslingers' today. he said that the EMP is an exceptionally sweet pistol but it will take some breaking in.

my first 5 magazines refused to load correctly on the first couple of rounds.

I then took a different approach.

after about every 3 magazines, I swabbed the bore, throat, feed ramp and bolt face with oil (I will have to pick up some tetra grease in JC) and repeated the process. I ran 320 rounds through mine today. it was brand new out of the box. I used the following types of ammo: winchester white box 115gr fmj,

DPX core-bon JHP, federqal premium, low recoil 135gr JHP, magtech guardian gold 124gr JHP, and magtech 115gr JHP.

the 115gr magtech JHP wouldn't feed. the rest would feed part of the time..and the wwb 115gr was tied with the Core-bon rounds for feeding the most.

This pistol is built to extremely tight tolerances so I figure its going to take at LEAST 800 rounds and some tuning to get it to eat anything without a problem, but it is possible! JMB's original 1911 had looser tolerances just for this reason.

Like yours, mine was a sweet shooter, at a range of 15 and 25 yards, I was making a 1" group consecutively...just getting it to feed was the problem.

If it's like most 1911's I know, it'll feed FMJ's more readily than it will hollow points...but I can easily see it eating everything you give it, once it's broken in and tuned a little. For that kind of accuracy, I'm willing to go that extra mile.

I will of course, bring you some tetra grease when we come down. I will also bring my EMP so we can compare notes.

I bought Julie a Sig-Saur mosquito today. she's been drooling over one as long as we have wanted an EMP. Since I didn't get to spend Christmas with her, I went ahead and got it as a present for her. (she made out like a bandit this year!)..so thats 2 pistols that are in their break in periods at my house.

the next time you take it to the range, try this also. after you load a magazine of ammo, tap it in your hand to seat all the rounds as far back as possible, in the magazine.

oh..and call me will ya? let me know if it's possible to come either tomorrow or thursday..I got gommed up with my schedule and it seems like there's so much to do and so little time..but I'll be danged if I'm going to miss getting a chance to visit!

[Guest Boomhower]

I will of course, bring you some tetra grease when we come down. I will also bring my EMP so we can compare notes.

I bought Julie a Sig-Saur mosquito today.

Even if you hadn't already told me, I would have still been able to make out that your back at work again. :)

[Guest jcramin]

Beautiful gun. Looks like a regular 1911 that got circumcised. Where's the Rabbi?

I didnt know Springfield was Jewish ........

[Guest Boomhower]

100 more rds. of WWB 115 gr. FMJ's with one FTE and one failure of the slide to lock back on an empty magazine. That's 600 total rds. It just keeps shooting smoother and better all the time.

[towerclimber37]

Boom, I'll start worrying when you get around 1k rounds through it and it hiccups...

it thrills me to no end to see that you got a pistol that you really like!

send pictures will ya? I miss mine and it doesn't look like I'll get to shoot when I go home...Julie took the Jeep in for maintenance and it seems that I'm now buying a 2008 Jeep wrangler unlimited in the color of blue. At least I got her to get another Jeep!

[Guest Boomhower]

it doesn't look like I'll get to shoot when I go home.

I can bring it over to my house and have twins for a while.