If you have permission from the property owner...do you need a HCP?

[Fallguy]

I have thought about this for a little while, but this thread got me to thinking about it again... http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/40871-i-like-my-new-boss.html

In the above thread the OP mentions that he showed his HCP to his new boss the boss has given him permission to carry.

Without considering that the HCP may have helped the boss make the decision, because of the training etc.. that goes with it.... I have always thought if you had the permission of the property owner (business or private) that you could carry on that property with out a HCP or anything.

One example is a gun range, now granted the deal with guns...but AFAIK there is exception in 39-17-1307 because of that.

Another is when you go over to your friend's field for some shooting.

Thoughts, ideas....lawyers.....

[Guest jackdm3]

I think being on the premises of a business is just the same as being at someone's home, regarding your right to carry if allowed by the owner, thus you're NOT on a public "fairway" subject to the law. Providing you're allowed to carry in the first place.

[Fallguy]

I think being on the premises of a business is just the same as being at someone's home, regarding your right to carry if allowed by the owner, thus you're NOT on a public "fairway" subject to the law. Providing you're allowed to carry in the first place.

Maybe you mean as long as they are legally allowed to poses a firearm, not necessarily carry.

..and I agree, you can't give a felon permission to carry on your property, because they can't legally poses a firearm.

[Oh Shoot]

...

One example is a gun range, now granted the deal with guns...but AFAIK there is exception in 39-17-1307 because of that.

Another is when you go over to your friend's field for some shooting.

Another is the exception in 39-17-1305, where alcohol is sold for on site consumption.

But all these seem to be single and limited exceptions to me.

Although I've heard some argue on here that the one in 39-17-1305 is meant to apply to ALL businesses, I don't see that as valid by any stretch of the imagination, since it clearly points back to a point in that statute only, rather than using the more inclusive "under this part" as other exceptions do which are meant to cover all the 39-17-13xx.

- OS

[Guest jackdm3]

zackly.

[Fallguy]

Another is the exception in 39-17-1305, where alcohol is sold for on site consumption.

But all these seem to be single and limited exceptions to me.

Although I've heard some argue on here that the one in 39-17-1305 is meant to apply to ALL businesses, I don't see that as valid by any stretch of the imagination, since it clearly points back to a point in that statute only, rather than using the more inclusive "under this part" as other exceptions do which are meant to cover all the 39-17-13xx.

- OS

I never thought that part of 39-17-1305 applied to all business directly...I just thought the exception was in there since it was otherwise a specific law that made it illegal. So that despite that, the owner could still give permission.

Just like a judge can make exceptions to possession in his courtroom, despite a law against it.

So since there is no specific law that says you can't carry at OhShoot's house or XYZ Gun range...that there is not a need to make a specific note allowing the owner to give permission.

Now a principal can't give you permission to carry at school because the law that prevents it doesn't allow him to.

Of course....hmmmmm....I admit there is nothing specific in 39-17-1308 that gives a property owner other than you being on your own a defense to 39-17-1307.

[Fallguy]

I guess one reason I have always that this too is because 39-17-1319(d)(1)(F) says that even a juvenile can poses a handgun as long he/she has permission from the property owner and his/her parent or legal guardian permission.

So if a juvenile can with permission...why not an adult?

[JayC]

1305c2 only covers places which serve... not all business...

© The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to a person who is:

1308a3 covers a much broader list of places you can legally carry... You're place of business is a much broader area than the limit in 1305c2.... for example ownership or control of the place of business is not a requirement under 1308a3.... It appears that this covers all employees of a business since the business is their place of business.

I'd also suggest (probably wrong) that 1308a4 covers carrying a firearm a another persons house or business with their permission.

(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

But, that little phrase seems to be disregarding in a number of other laws.

I never thought that part of 39-17-1305 applied to all business directly...I just thought the exception was in there since it was otherwise a specific law that made it illegal. So that despite that, the owner could still give permission.

Just like a judge can make exceptions to possession in his courtroom, despite a law against it.

So since there is no specific law that says you can't carry at OhShoot's house or XYZ Gun range...that there is not a need to make a specific note allowing the owner to give permission.

Now a principal can't give you permission to carry at school because the law that prevents it doesn't allow him to.

Of course....hmmmmm....I admit there is nothing specific in 39-17-1308 that gives a property owner other than you being on your own a defense to 39-17-1307.

Edited June 3, 2010 by JayC