Restaurant Carry - Exactly what are we getting?

[VolunteerGuns]

SB3012 with all 3 senate amendments-

SENATE BILL 3012

By Jackson

AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39,

Chapter 17, Part 13; Section 57-3-204 and Section

57-4-203, relative to permitting or prohibiting the

carrying of firearms in certain places.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1305, is amended by

deleting the section in its entirety.

SECTION 2. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1321, is amended by

deleting subsection ( and by substituting instead the following:

( It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm if the person is both:

(1) Within the confines of an establishment open to the public

where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverages, as defined in § 57-3-

101(a)(1)(A), or beer, as defined in § 57-6-102(1), are served for

consumption on the premises; and

(2) Consuming any alcoholic beverage listed in subdivision (1) of

this subsection (.

©

(1) A violation of this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(2) In addition to the punishment authorized by subdivision (1), if

the violation is of subsection (a), occurs in an establishment described in

subdivision ((1), and the person has a handgun permit issued pursuant

to § 39-17-1351, such permit shall be suspended in accordance with §

39-17-1352 for a period of three (3) years.

SECTION 3. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1359, is amended by

deleting the section in its entirety and substituting instead the following:

(a)

(1) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or

federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the

possession of weapons by any person who is at a meeting conducted by,

or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the

individual, corporation, business entity or government entity.

(2) The prohibition in subdivision (1) shall apply to any person

who is authorized to carry a firearm by authority of § 39-17-1351.

(

(1) Notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall be

accomplished by displaying one (1) or both of the notices described in

subdivision (3) in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily

used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property

or building where weapon possession is prohibited.

(2) The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a

duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons,

customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession

is prohibited.

(3)

(A) If a sign is used as the method of posting, it shall contain

language substantially similar to the following:

AS AUTHORIZED BY TCA § 39-17-1359, POSSESSION

OF A WEAPON ON POSTED PROPERTY OR IN A

POSTED BUILDING IS PROHIBITED AND IS A

CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

( As used in this section, “language substantially similar

to†means the sign contains language plainly stating that:

(1) Notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished

by displaying one (1) or both of the notices described in subdivision (3) in prominent

locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property,

building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited.

Either form of notice used shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person

entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

(i) The property is posted under authority of Tennessee law;

(ii) Weapons or firearms are prohibited on the property, in the building, or on the portion of the property or

building that is posted; and

(iii) Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

© A building, property or a portion of a building or

property, shall be considered properly posted in accordance with

this section if one (1) or both of the following is displayed in

prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by

persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property

or building where weapon possession is prohibited:

(i) The international circle and slash symbolizing

the prohibition of the item within the circle; or

(ii) The posting sign described in this subdivision

(3).

©

(1) It is an offense to possess a weapon in a building or on

property that is properly posted in accordance with this section.

(2) Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this

section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred

dollars ($500).

(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate

any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for

injuries arising on their property.

(e) The provisions of this section shall not apply to title 70 regarding

wildlife laws, rules and regulations.

(f) This section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural

area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other

similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a

municipality or instrumentality thereof. The carrying of firearms in those areas

shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.

SECTION 4. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 39-17-1351, is amended by

inserting the following between the fourth and fifth sentences of subsection (e):

Beginning September 1, 2010, and thereafter, a component of the

classroom portion of all department approved handgun safety courses shall be

instruction on alcohol and drugs, the effects of those substances on a person's

reflexes, judgment and ability to safely handle a firearm, and the provisions of §

39-17-1321.

SECTION 5. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 57-3-204, is amended by

deleting subsection (e) in its entirety.

SECTION 6. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 57-4-203, is amended by

deleting subsection (k) in its entirety.

SECTION 7. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it.

Edited June 2, 2010 by adamween

[VolunteerGuns]

Either form of notice used shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

Exactly what is plainly visible to the average person?

Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)?

Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)?

Arrest? Citation Issued Only? How's this one work?

Anyone else have any specific questions/comments/opinions about the new law? Please share.

Edited June 2, 2010 by adamween

[Guest HvyMtl]

A headache.

[Guest 270win]

The way I read it....either the wording...or the sign (whatever that picture may look like who knows)....or both may be used at all entrances used by people entering the property....it must be easy to see/read without looking hard. I shouldn't have to bend down look close with a magnifying glass or up high.....it is up for a lot of interpretation honestly.

A picture sign (whatever in the world that looks like) can be stand alone....a statute worded sign can be stand alone....or you can have a picture sign WITH the statute worded out...those three things are acceptable....that's the way I understand it...nothing else....If I see a picture sign that then says "No guns"...that would to me not be legal because it has added language that doesn't comply...but hey I'm not a lawyer.

I conceal my gun to avoid these sign problems. I carry a snub revolver. We've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for this who has a permit. I worry about bigger things honestly than a sign....is that bad...well I am in Memphis a lot and can't always run to a car to store a gun. I have experienced being in a place that had a sign that said "No guns" (A medical facility in Memphis)...and the place did not care...I did my procedure....put my gun back in my pocket...nurse was cool about it...and went about my business. I don't think your average Joe keeps up with this stuff....at worst I'm prepared to leave quickly....and if all else fails pay a fine....worse things happen in life.

[JAB]

The way I read it....either the wording...or the sign (whatever that picture may look like who knows)....or both may be used at all entrances used by people entering the property....it must be easy to see/read without looking hard. I shouldn't have to bend down look close with a magnifying glass or up high.....it is up for a lot of interpretation honestly.

A picture sign (whatever in the world that looks like) can be stand alone....a statute worded sign can be stand alone....or you can have a picture sign WITH the statute worded out...those three things are acceptable....that's the way I understand it...nothing else....If I see a picture sign that then says "No guns"...that would to me not be legal because it has added language that doesn't comply...but hey I'm not a lawyer.

I am no lawyer, either, but the way I am reading it the circle/slash with 'No Guns' under it would still be legal because it has the circle/slash. Whatever else is on the sign doesn't seem to matter as there is no language in the bill to say that nothing in addition to the circle/slash is allowed, only that a circle/slash or the required text must be on the sign. Putting 'No Guns' on the sign, then, would not seem to matter either way, IMO. Now, just putting up a sign that says, "No Guns" without the circle/slash or the required wording on the sign in addition to "No Guns" would not seem to constitute a legal posting.

[Fallguy]

This has been discussed at length in several other threads.....

Either form of notice used shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

Exactly what is plainly visible to the average person?

If you saw it, it is visable. If you didn't see it (and you the PD is called and/or you are charged) you will have to make you case that it was not plainly visable to you.

This is nothing different than the current/previous law.

Possessing a weapon in an area that has been posted is a criminal offense.

Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)?

Again just like it has always been.

Possession of a weapon on posted property in violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor punishable by fine only of five hundred dollars ($500)?

Arrest? Citation Issued Only? How's this one work?

As has been said in the other threads, we can not find anyone that has ever been charged so don't know for sure.

But since it is a misdenanor, the law says you are supposed to be issued a citation in lieu of arrest [40-7-118((1)] unless you commited a certain offense under 40-7-118((2) or 40-7-1108((3) (of which 39-17-1359 is not one) or meet one of the eight criteria in 40-7-118© (see http://www.michie.com/tennessee/l)

Edited June 2, 2010 by Fallguy

[Guest Usagi]

I suggest next legislative session, we have TCA 39-17-1359 stripped.

It would reflect the majority of states out there at that point.

Property owners could still ask anyone to leave for any reason... but a silly little sign wouldn't turn a HCP holder into a criminal.