Israel Raids Activist Flotilla Attempting to Run Blockade

[Guest gts]

"Zionist agenda"

This tells me all I need to know.

Oh ya I'M A COWBOYS FAN TO

I believe that is what the Israeli's call it...

Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zionism is a nationalist[1] Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, calls for the self-determination of the Jewish people and a sovereign, Jewish national homeland.[2] Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to support and advocate on behalf of the Jewish state.

[E4 No More]

So another group of "activists" are being sent. Perhaps this boat will be sunk and save the Israelis the trouble.

[Guest gts]

Dude! Step away from the crack-pipe.

I just love coherent discourse.

[E4 No More]

I just love coherent discourse.

Then engage in some. You aren't likely to find support for your BS here.

[USMCJG]

I just love coherent discourse.

We've already heard from you about a "zionist agenda". Talk about intelligent discourse. So which white supremacist organization or terrorist group did you spend the last four years studying about the "zionist agenda" with anyway?

[Guest gts]

Then engage in some. You aren't likely to find support for your BS here.

The only reason I can't engage in any here, is because none is offered. I am not just spouting off...I have presented information and opinion based on actual data and experience.

However, like with most arguments, the person, not the argument, is attacked. I simply don't beleive the run-of-the-mill propaganda that the MSM (including Beck, Rush, et all) have to spew. I look a further because I know that there are people out there whose interests are not rooted in you and I knowing what the truth actually is. They count on Americans not knowing and moreover not caring.

[Guest gts]

We've already heard from you about a "zionist agenda". Talk about intelligent discourse. So which white supremacist organization or terrorist group did you spend the last four years studying about the "zionist agenda" with anyway?

This has nothing to do with race. It is about global politics. You are quick to tell me that I have no facts, but you have yet to present any yourself.

[canadienmike]

This has nothing to do with race. It is about global politics. You are quick to tell me that I have no facts, but you have yet to present any yourself.

What facts are you presenting? Only the ones on that biased site which do not tell a story by itself. I don't think the US gives military aid to terrorists so it's not surprising then that the Palestinians don't get any. And as for all of the number of deaths statistics, during WW2, Germany had between 6 to 8 million deaths while the US had just over 400,000 and Britain had around half a million. So by your logic, Germany was the victim of that evil war since they had more losses.

[E4 No More]

The only reason I can't engage in any here, is because none is offered. I am not just spouting off...I have presented information and opinion based on actual data and experience.

However, like with most arguments, the person, not the argument, is attacked. I simply don't beleive the run-of-the-mill propaganda that the MSM (including Beck, Rush, et all) have to spew. I look a further because I know that there are people out there whose interests are not rooted in you and I knowing what the truth actually is. They count on Americans not knowing and moreover not caring.

When you post something as "fact" without having witnessed it yourself, and your source is arguably fallacious, you open yourself to such attacks. What you posted is like the Nazi Party posting that Hitler wasn't that bad of a guy. It's these kind of tactics under the guise of "intellectual discourse" that the left uses, and that I find laughable.

I guess you can count me as one of the Americans who do not care.

[Guest gts]

When you post something as "fact" without having witnessed it yourself, and your source is arguably fallacious, you open yourself to such attacks. What you posted is like the Nazi Party posting that Hitler wasn't that bad of a guy. It's these kind of tactics under the guise of "intellectual discourse" that the left uses, and that I find laughable.

I guess you can count me as one of the Americans who do not care.

You quoted me, but the word "fact" was not in there. What I have witnessed is what my Palestinian friend told me, which I referred to as experience. Meaning from my experience with a Palestinian who was under the PLO, this is what I know. A challenge was posted to talk to someone who was under the PLO, but I already have and shared it. Also, I wrote "coherent discourse" not "intellectual discourse."

What I posted was link to a site that contains statical data concerning the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I even said that the reader would be left to his/her on conclusion. Yes, that site is openly biased in their position, but I was only concerned with bringing for the stats they present. And after reviewing the stats I can see why they have such a bias.

What facts are you presenting? Only the ones on that biased site which do not tell a story by itself...

The only claims I have made as fact are the one's I noted in my first post. Which are backed by the OP article and the video I posted. The rest I have clearly stated was opinion.

...I have presented information and opinion based on actual data and experience...

Edited June 1, 2010 by gts

[tntnixon]

This has nothing to do with race. It is about global politics. You are quick to tell me that I have no facts, but you have yet to present any yourself.

From your posts it is quite clear that to you, everything is about race. You have determined that Jews are evil, not because of their actions, but because of the fact that they have the audacity to be both non-white and non-Christians. Then, you go about trying to prove to the world that they should be dispised because you personally hate them.

And don't give me that "I just have pride in my own race" crap. If that was true, you would be totally disinterested in the going-ons in the middle east because it doesn't affect white people at all. No, you hate others and it is obvious.

So, you don't want the Jews here, you don't think they should be in Europe, and you don't think they should exist in or defend themselves in the land of their forefathers for 4600 years. What do you want to happen to them? That leaves only one answer, their destruction. That is your agenda and it is far more sinister than any "Zionist agenda".

[E4 No More]

You quoted me, but the word "fact" was not in there. What I have witnessed is what my Palestinian friend told me, which I referred to as experience. Meaning from my experience with a Palestinian who was under the PLO, this is what I know. A challenge was posted to talk to someone who was under the PLO, but I already have and shared it. Also, I wrote "coherent discourse" not "intellectual discourse."

What I posted was link to a site that contains statical data concerning the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I even said that the reader would be left to his/her on conclusion. Yes, that site is openly biased in their position, but I was only concerned with bringing for the stats they present. And after reviewing the stats I can see why they have such a bias.

The only claims I have made as fact are the one's I noted in my first post. Which are backed by the OP article and the video I posted. The rest I have clearly stated was opinion.

FACT: Episode took place in international waters. There were no firearms in the possession of the civilians on board. The only weapons used against the Israeli's were those commandeered by the civilians from the IDF soldiers that had stormed the ship.

OPINION: This was an act of self-defense by the people on board the ship. If any other nation on earth behaved the way Israel repeatedly has over the past 50 years, there would be an outcry by Americans for the U.S. to intervene. However, since our economy, politics and media are controlled by Israeli interest, no such outcry has ever manifested. Amazingly enough, many "conservatives" point out the outright bias and deception of the mainstream media concerning internal/national politics, yet completely ignore and/or deny any such bias concerning the State of Israel and its apartheid stance.

It would behoove the world for the U.S. to remove itself from Middle Eastern affairs. We should allow those nations to handle their matters the way they see fit. If that means they all go to war with one another, so be it. Let the victor, rather it be Israel or the Arab nations, be the outright victor by conquest.

Another FACT: Most Americans have never taken to the time to study the history concerning how Israel obtained statehood. They simply just believe and regurgitate what they have been told or taught without any scrutiny. Nor do most Americans bother to look further into more recent events concerning the State of Israel, but rather blindly support it because they are told to by the media, pastors, and other influences and mainly do so for fear of being labeled anti-semitic.

SIDE-NOTE: Here is a site run by a group of Jews that offers factual information concerning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: If Americans Knew - what every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

Furthermore, Israel apparently has been caught lying again...

In raw video, reporters claim Israelis fired on activists before boarding ship

Raw Story

Check again! Poles and metal rods are indeed weapons, and so are guns picked up from your opponent.

Regurgitating what someone told you is not witnessed:

wit·ness

   /ˈwɪtnɪs/ Show Spelled[wit-nis] Show IPA

–verb (used with object) 1. to see, hear, or know by personal presence and perception: to witness an accident.

So much for "coherent discourse."

[Guest gts]

From your posts it is quite clear that to you, everything is about race. You have determined that Jews are evil, not because of their actions, but because of the fact that they have the audacity to be both non-white and non-Christians. Then, you go about trying to prove to the world that they should be dispised because you personally hate them.

And don't give me that "I just have pride in my own race" crap. If that was true, you would be totally disinterested in the going-ons in the middle east because it doesn't affect white people at all. No, you hate others and it is obvious.

So, you don't want the Jews here, you don't think they should be in Europe, and you don't think they should exist in or defend themselves in the land of their forefathers for 4600 years. What do you want to happen to them? That leaves only one answer, their destruction. That is your agenda and it is far more sinister than any "Zionist agenda".

The above is conjecture. However, you have now backed me into a corner. Unfortunately, as much as I would like to rebut your claim, I can't. I have already received two infractions and cannot afford another, because it would most likely mean that I could no longer be a member of the TGO community.

You have your opinion concerning the above subject matter and I have mine. Whether or not either of them are correct or not, we are entitled to them. Yet, I cannot state or defend mine. From previous experience, I know that my opinion will not be tolerated by the admin or mods. So, I am done with this thread.

[Capbyrd]

However, since our economy, politics and media are controlled by Israeli interest

This sentence right here let me know that you are crazy. Everyone knows that the free Masons rule the world.

[leroy]

All:________________

Check this little story out: Date 11/7/07; this aint yesterday.

Thousands of Palestinians apply for Israeli citizenship

Intensive talks over division of Jerusalem has prompted its Palestinian residents to make a move once considered the ultimate treason

Ronny Shaked

Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem calling to set up an appointment with the Interior Ministry to apply for an Israeli citizenship will discover the next available interview date is only in April.

Swinging SovereigntyOlmert hints at possible concessions in Jerusalem / Amnon MerandaDuring special Knesset session marking 2001 assassination of Rehavam Ze'evi, PM questions assumption of sovereignty over Arab neighborhoods near Jerusalem after 67 war. Says Ze'evi 'had been first to champion establishment of Palestinian state'

Full Story

In the months leading up to the upcoming Annapolis peace conference talk of a future division of the city has prompted a staggering increase in nationalization requests by Palestinians seeking to escape life under the Palestinian Authority.

Some 250,000 Palestinians currently reside in Jerusalem. Only 12,000 of them have sought to obtain an Israeli citizenship since 1967, an average of about 300 new citizens a year.

But over the past four months the Interior Ministry has registered an unprecedented 3,000 applications, primarily residents of the Arab neighborhoods unlikely to remain under Israeli sovereignty according to the political initiative currently on the agenda.

The 240,000 non-naturalized Palestinians in the city currently hold the status of permanent residents. As Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem they were also eligible to participate in the elections held by the Palestinian Authority.

As accepting Israeli citizenship was viewed by many within the community as tantamount to treason, most Palestinians opted to remain permanent residents and enjoy the benefits of living under Israeli sovereignty – full welfare rights, municipal voting rights and unrestricted movement - without putting their loyalty to the Palestinian Authority into question. The average Palestinian family in East Jerusalem currently receives a $770 monthly stipend from Israel.

"They've weighed the pros and cons of life under the Palestinian Authority and those under Israel and they've chosen," said residents in East Jerusalem of their naturalization-seeking neighbors.

33-year-old Samar Qassam said his motivation to apply for Israeli citizenship was to seek a better future for his family. Along with his wife and son, Qassam once lived in the Old City but recently moved to Beit Safafa, an Arab village south of Jerusalem.

"I was born in Jerusalem, this is where I grew up and this is where I make my living. My entire life is here. My wife comes from the West Bank, so I do fear she may be deported and therefore filed a naturalization request for her as well. I want to keep living here with my wife and child without having to worry about our future. That's why I want an Israeli citizenship," Qassam said.

"I don't know what the future holds. There's talk of the Palestinian Authority coming to Jerusalem.

Personally, I don't think that will happen. But only God knows what will happen. I work as a mechanic for an Israeli company, I have both Jewish and Arab friends. I speak Hebrew and go out to Tel Aviv and Akko in the evenings. I just want a better future," he said.

Link here: Thousands of Palestinians apply for Israeli citizenship - Israel News, Ynetnews

Read this too:

MYTH

“The Zionists made no effort to compromise with the Arabs.â€

FACT

In 1913, the Zionist leadership recognized the desirability of reaching an agreement with the Arabs. Sami Hochberg, owner of the newspaper, Le-Jeune-Turc, informally represented the Zionists in a meeting with the Cairo-based Decentralization Party and the anti-Ottoman Beirut Reform Society and was able to reach an agreement. This “entente verbale†led to the adoption of a resolution assuring Jews equal rights under a decentralized government. Hochberg also secured an invitation to the First Arab Congress held in Paris in June 1913.

The Arab Congress proved to be surprisingly receptive to Zionist aspirations. Hochberg was encouraged by the Congress’s favorable response to the entente verbale. Abd-ul-Hamid Yahrawi, the President of the Congress, summed up the attitude of the delegates:

All of us, both Muslims and Christians, have the best of feelings toward the Jews. When we spoke in our resolutions about the rights and obligations of the Syrians, this covered the Jews as well. Because they are our brothers in race

and we regard them as Syrians who were forced to leave the country at one time but whose hearts always beat together with ours

, we are certain that our Jewish brothers the world over will know how to help us so that our common interests may succeed and our common country will develop both materially and morally (author’s emphasis).

23

The entente verbale Hochberg negotiated was rendered ineffectual by wartime developments. The outspoken Arab opposition to the Balfour Declaration convinced the Zionist leadership of the need to make a more concerted effort to reach an understanding with the Arabs.

Chaim Weizmann considered the task important enough to lead a Zionist Commission to Palestine to explain the movement’s aims to the Arabs. Weizmann went first to Cairo in March 1918 and met with Said Shukeir, Dr. Faris Nimr and Suleiman Bey Nassif (Syrian Arab nationalists who had been chosen by the British as representatives). He stressed the desire to live in harmony with the Arabs in a British Palestine.

Weizmann’s diplomacy was successful. Nassif said “there was room in Palestine for another million inhabitants without affecting the position of those already there.â€24 Dr. Nimr disseminated information through his Cairo newspaper to dispel the Arab public’s misconceptions about Zionist aims.25

In 1921, Winston Churchill tried to arrange a meeting between Palestinians and Zionists. On November 29, 1921, the two sides met, but no progress was made becaue the Arabs insisted that the Balfour Declaration be abrogated.26

Weizmann led a group of Zionists that met with Syrian nationalist Riad al-Sulh in 1921. The Zionists agreed to support Arab nationalist aspirations and Sulh said he was willing to recognize the Jewish National Home. The talks resumed a year later and raised hopes for an agreement. In May 1923, however, Sulh’s efforts to convince Palestinian Arab leaders that Zionism was an accomplished fact were rejected.27

Over the next 25 years, Zionist leaders inside and outside Palestine would try repeatedly to negotiate with the Arabs. Similarly, Israeli leaders since 1948 have sought peace treaties with the Arab states, but Egypt and Jordan are the only nations that have signed them.

Link here: Myths & Facts - Israel’s Roots

So much for the myth of the poor put upon Palestinians. By the way, it's pretty easy to validate the content of the second article. It is out there in several articles, history narratives, etc. To say that the "Zionists" made no effort to include the Palestinians is simply telling a lie. The Palestinians (...like the 60's hippies here in the US with regard to the founding principles of America...) have mounted a pretty successful campaign to demonize the Israelis and have used their own brothers as cannon fodder to spread sympathy for a lie. The leaders of the so called "Palestinian Cause" are nothing more than cynical thugs.

Food for thought.

Leroy

[Guest gts]

Check again! Poles and metal rods are indeed weapons, and so are guns picked up from your opponent.

Regurgitating what someone told you is not witnessed:

wit·ness

   /ˈwɪtnɪs/ Show Spelled[wit-nis] Show IPA

–verb (used with object) 1. to see, hear, or know by personal presence and perception: to witness an accident.

So much for "coherent discourse."

Ok, this was posted when I was replying so I will address it. I was making the factual claim that the civilians on the boat didn't have firearms in their possession before the boat was stormed by the IDF. Poles and metal rods are not firearms. I wonder why the Israeli felt threatened by people holding poles and metal rods? Furthermore, after reading it again I don't see how you missed the point.

Concerning the witness factor. Bad choice of a word on my part, I guess. For clarification, though I don't see how you could not have understood the point, I was referring to the fact that I have witnessed a person who was under the PLO tell me what they thought of the PLO when they were living in Palestine. Which was a response to another poster telling me to talk with someone who was under PLO control. Which I have done and was trying offer a general understanding of that person's perspective of how his homeland is being run by the PLO.

That is the best you can dissect my statements to prove a point? Kinda weak, don't you think?

Edited June 1, 2010 by gts

[tntnixon]

This sentence right here let me know that you are crazy. Everyone knows that the free Masons rule the world.

Yes, we're ruling the world through pot-luck suppers and barbecue fundraisers and lulling everyone into submission through the occassional charity event.

[Capbyrd]

Yes, we're ruling the world through pot-luck suppers and barbecue fundraisers and lulling everyone into submission through the occassional charity event.

I've seen National Treasure and Da Vinci Code. You can't fool me.

[Smith]

gts is a fool and a liar. If you truly did study the history then you could not have come up with the conclusion you have adopted without an agenda. The Palestinian history alone dispels all your "facts". The Palestinians are neither indigenous nor native to the middle east. As of such they were refugees who came to Palestine after the Jews were taken in conquest. They were squatters living in a land no one wanted. When the Jews returned to the land no one wanted and made something out of it, then all their neighbors suddenly claimed it. Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Turkey all at one time tried to make something out of the desert wasteland and couldn't. This is why no one cared if the Jews had it. The Jews are the only ones to be able to make something out of nothing in that region.

The reason there is a Palestinian problem is because none of their Arab (even thought Palestinians are not ethnically Arab) brothers will take them. In fact Lebanon and Iran refused to take them as did Saudi and Egypt. They are being used to reek havoc internally with Israel. Think of it as if Mexico sent a few million people to squat in Colorado and claim it's theirs.

You need a better history lesson or at least not one out of the Third Reich.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Smith

[Guest HvyMtl]

ok. Lets break this down. The Israelis, attacked from Gaza with rockets, places a blockade around Gaza. Advises the U.N. and the world - humanitarian aid will go through this port with U.N. oversight.

The Israeli Navy sets up the blockade, and advises the World they will board all ships to ensure no weapons are being illegally shipped, even by U.N. standards, to Gaza.

These "peace activists" get a bunch of ships and attempt to break the blockade. When the Israeli Navy intercepts, instead of allowing a search, and being forced to port, which would have gotten the "outrage" they wanted, they fought back with knives and pipes. Even throwing the Israeli troops overboard. THEN, is when the Israelis started shooting. These "peace activists" did not act peacefully...and IMHO, got what they deserved...

BEFORE condemning the Israelis in this event, look towards the U.S. actions of the present and past. Presently, any ship or airplane flying over the Gulf of Mexico may be intercepted, in international waters, by the U.S. Coast Guard, to interdict illegal drugs. An historical example, the Cuban Missile Crisis, where the U.S. Blockaded Cuba... Cuban Missile Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, how then are we to condemn them, when we have done and do blockade in international waters? Personally, I am all for defending one's nation from terror attacks like the blindly aimed rockets Israel has been hit with.

AS for the present situation with Arab vs Israeli, there may just be a causal link with Nazi Germany, as Hitler had ongoing radio broadcasts to the Middle Eastern areas on how the Jews held down the Arab, and how the German Aryan was ending it...

Oh, and do go read up on the history of Palestine and Israel. You will find Great Britain was in control of the area Pre, during, and Post WWII. You will find they wanted to leave a governmental nation in charge. You will find the Israelis came into the area, built infrastructure, cities, government, telecommunications, etc., while the Palestinians basically sat, and expected GB to "do it for them..." So...

Edited June 1, 2010 by HvyMtl

[Guest SUNTZU]

International Humanitarian Law - San Remo Manual 1994

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.

NAVAL WARFARE PUBLICATION

7.7.4 Breach and Attempted Breach of Blockade. Breach of blockade is the passage of a vessel or aircraft through a blockade without special entry or exit authorization from the blockading belligerent. Attempted breach of blockade occurs from the time a vessel or aircraft leaves a port or airfield with the intention of evading the blockade, and for vessels exiting the blockaded area, continues until the voyage is completed. Knowledge of the existence of the blockade is essential to the offenses of breach of blockade and attempted breach of blockade. Knowledge may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification provided to affected governments. It is immaterial that the vessel or aircraft is at the time of interception bound for neutral territory, if its ultimate destination is the blockaded area. There is a presumption of attempted breach of blockade where vessels or aircraft are bound for a neutral port or airfield serving as a point of transit to the blockaded area. Capture of such vessels is discussed in paragraph 7.10.

It is customary for neutral nations to provide belligerents of both sides with information regarding the nature, timing, and route of shipments of goods constituting exceptions to contraband and to obtain approval for their safe conduct and entry into belligerent owned or occupied territory.

International law: a treatise - Google Books

7.7.3 Special Entry and Exit Authorization. Although neutral warships and military aircraft enjoy no positive right of access to blockaded areas, the belligerent imposing the blockade may authorize their entry and exit. Such special authorization may be made subject to such conditions as the blockading force considers to be necessary and expedient. Neutral vessels and aircraft in evident distress should be authorized entry into a blockaded area, and subsequently authorized to depart, under conditions prescribed by the officer in command of the blockading force or responsible for maintenance of the blockading instrumentality (e.g., mines). Similarly, neutral vessels and aircraft engaged in the carriage of qualifying relief supplies for the civilian population and the sick and wounded should be authorized to pass through the blockade cordon.

Someone has to authorize them to be able to pass.

BREACH OF BLOCKADE

See the literature quoted above at the commencement of § 368.

Definition § 383. Breach or violation of blockade is the unof Breach aj]owe(j mgress or egress of a vessel in spite of the Blockade, blockade. The attempted breach is, so far as punishment is concerned, treated in the same way as the consummated breach, but the practice of States has hitherto differed with regard to the question at what time and by what act an attempt to break a blockade commences.

It must be specially observed that the blockaderunner violates International Law as little as the contraband carrier. Both (see below, § 398) violate injunctions of the belligerent concerned.

No Breach § 384. Since breach of blockade is, from the standNotice of point of the blockading belligerent, a criminal act, Blockade, knowledge on the part of a vessel of the existence of a blockade is essential for making her egress or ingress a breach of blockade.

It is for this reason that Continental theory and practice have never considered a blockade established without local and diplomatic notification, so that every vessel might have, or might be supposed to have, notice of the existence of a blockade. And for the same reason some States, as France and Italy, have never considered a vessel to have committed a breach of blockade unless a special warning was given her before her attempted ingress by one of the blockading cruisers stopping her and recording the warning upon her log-book.1

1 See article 37 of U.S. Naval War Committee on article 4 of the Code. Declaration of London.

• See the Report of the Drafting

British, American, and Japanese practice regarding the necessary knowledge of the existence of a blockade on the part of a vessel has always made a distinction between actual and constructive notice, no breach of blockade having been held to exist without either the one or the other.2 Actual notice has been considered knowledge acquired by a direct warning from one of the blockading men-of-war or knowledge acquired from any other public or private source of information. Constructive knowledge has been presumed knowledge of the blockade on the part of a vessel on the ground either of notoriety or of diplomatic notification. The existence of a blockade has always been presumed to be notorious to vessels within the blockaded ports, but it has been a question of fact whether it was notorious to other vessels. And knowledge of the existence of a blockade has always been presumed on the part of a vessel in case sufficient time had elapsed after the home State of the vessel had received diplomatic notification of the blockade, so that it could inform thereof all vessels sailing under its flag, whether or no they had actually received, or taken notice of, the information.3

[mikegideon]

Mexico sent a few million people to squat in California and claim it's theirs.

Fixed that for you

[Guest gts]

gts is a fool and a liar. If you truly did study the history then you could not have come up with the conclusion you have adopted without an agenda. The Palestinian history alone dispels all your "facts". The Palestinians are neither indigenous nor native to the middle east. As of such they were refugees who came to Palestine after the Jews were taken in conquest. They were squatters living in a land no one wanted. When the Jews returned to the land no one wanted and made something out of it, then all their neighbors suddenly claimed it. Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Turkey all at one time tried to make something out of the desert wasteland and couldn't. This is why no one cared if the Jews had it. The Jews are the only ones to be able to make something out of nothing in that region.

The reason there is a Palestinian problem is because none of their Arab (even thought Palestinians are not ethnically Arab) brothers will take them. In fact Lebanon and Iran refused to take them as did Saudi and Egypt. They are being used to reek havoc internally with Israel. Think of it as if Mexico sent a few million people to squat in Colorado and claim it's theirs.

You need a better history lesson or at least not one out of the Third Reich.

I know I said I was done with this thread. But, I will not sit idle and be called a liar. You want to call me a fool, fine. I can handle that. But I have not lied. You have no idea how I have spent my time researching. That claim that I am lying is unjustified and reprehensible. If you can provide proof of otherwise, I would like to see it.

Just because I have come to a different conclusion than is socially or politically accepted by this board doesn't mean I haven't studied this issue. This is another example of attacking the person and not the argument. As for the Palestinians not being middle-eastern, can you please provide what the geographical location of their origination is? Refugees from where? It would help your argument tremendously. As for them being squatters in a land no one wanted, they squatted there for over a 1,000 years before any effort by the Jews were made to make Palestine their “homeland.†IMO, they have a right to live in the region as well as fight for the right to live in the region, whether they win or lose.

Please share the portions of the Palestinian history that dispels the "facts" I have claimed in this thread. Before doing so, please print the thread and make sure have outlined the "facts" that you seemed to think I have made concerning the Palestinians at all. I ask this because I am not sure of the "facts" you claim I have made concerning the Palestinians in this thread.

Contrary to what you believe, I am not a supporter of Nazism and/or the Third Reich. I don't like Hitler or what he stood for. But, what would be the point of going into that, you wouldn't believe me anyway. Maybe, you should spend sometime reading about the history of the Zionism Movement. It is beneficial to know both sides of the argument before drawing any conclusions.

[Guest HvyMtl]

"gts is a fool and a liar."

GENTLEMEN, PLEASE DO NOT STOOP TO PERSONAL ATTACKS. IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE, AND IRRITATES THE FORUM OFFICERS...

Besides, it kills your argument, right off the bat...

[greenego]

Originally Posted by greenego

They were told to dock and let Israel search the ship for weapons. If none found they could have gone on. There was either weapons on this ship or they were trying to cause an incident.

Source?

Activists send new boat to challenge Israel's Gaza blockade day after raid kills 9 | StarTribune.com

By AMY TEIBEL , Associated Press

Last update: June 1, 2010 - 5:51 AM

JERUSALEM - Pro-Palestinian activists said Tuesday they had sent another boat to challenge the Gaza blockade as Israel faced outrage abroad and questions at home over its botched raid on an aid flotilla in international waters that ended with soldiers killing nine activists.

The raid provoked the most ferocious international condemnation of Israel since its war with the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip a year and a half ago and appeared likely to increase pressure to end its blockade that has deepened the poverty of the 1.5 million Palestinians living in the strip. The U.N. Security Council condemned the "acts" that resulted in the deaths and called for an impartial investigation.

Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla, said another cargo boat was off the coast of Italy en route to Gaza. A second boat carrying about three dozen passengers is expected to join it, Berlin said. She said the two boats would arrive in the region late this week or early next week.

"This initiative is not going to stop," she said from the group's base in Cyprus. "We think eventually Israel will get some kind of common sense. They're going to have to stop the blockade of Gaza, and one of the ways to do this is for us to continue to send the boats."

Protests have erupted in a number of Muslim countries including Turkey, which unofficially supported the flotilla, Indonesia and Malaysia, where a Palestinian man slashed himself outside the American Embassy.

Within Israel, the raid sparked intense debate over why the military operation went awry.

Israel sent commandos onto the six ships carrying nearly 700 activists after mission organizers ignored the government's weeks-long call to bring the cargo to an Israeli port, where it would be inspected and transferred to Gaza. In most cases, the passengers quickly surrendered. But on the largest ship, the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara, the forces encountered resistance.