Which of these uppers is best?

[Il Duce]

Pre-Ban 16" M4 Flattop Upper Chrome Lined M4 A4 Pre ban Chrome Lined M&A Parts, Inc.

BCM M4 16" Upper Receiver Group

[Smith]

I'd go with the Bravo Company upper. Has a few extras that most folks like, ie M4 feed ramps and HPT inspected barrel.

[JeffL]

I've never heard of the first one. I hear nothing but praises for Bravo Co though.

[Guest gts]

BCM

[c.a.willard]

id go with the BCM just because of twist rate. the 1 in 9 doesnt leave you alot of room for options. the 1/7 on the BCM will allow for a higher degree of versitility as far as usable ammunition. although arguably the military profile barrel is an extra that you pay for and dont really need. Unless you intent on mounting a grenade launcher to it.

[Guest Fwdftw]

Bcm all the way

[Il Duce]

bcm it is guys. appreciate it

[DaveTN]

I don’t know, but let us know how it works out. I was looking at M&A awhile back because they had full rifle kits at a good price, ready to ship, when others said their waiting list was months long. But I got sidetracked with other projects and haven’t ordered anything yet.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I have a AR built off a M&A parts kit. It has been 100% reliable and shoots 1/2 MOA with my handloads. It has a 9 twist stainless barrel that is 16" long.

Most parts come from just a few makers. I was at a show the other day and showed a friend 3 seperate branded guns with the same keyhole forging mark on the upper, Bushmaster, S&W and another I can't remember. Same goes for the lowers as well as the parts kits, they are made by a few but sold by many as their own.

Don't be afraid of M&A, they are a quality outfit that has been around for a long time. Both M&A and Bravo Company have been in busness for a while so either would be the place to buy from.

I would call both and compare features or at least take the list from Bravo Company and ask M&A if they offer the same features because the M&A site is rather sparse on info. My first purchase from M&A in 05 had M4 ramps as does the one I bought in 07 even though it didn't mention it on their site.

The brands to stay away from are Hesse, Vulcan and Blackthorne. All those are crap.

As far as twist I would go with a 9 twist rather than a 7 twist. Overstabilized bullets is the main cause of all the problems with the 5.56. Too much twist means that if the bullet doesn't fall apart upon impact it will just pass through without tumbling. This is the current problem that the troops are complaining about. By using a faster twist, heavier bullets and slower velocity in the current M4 and ammo they have continued to make things worse. The heavier bullets means the velocity is starting out lower and the faster twist means the bullets are over stabilized. This is causing those bullets to just pass through targets as the velocities drop.

Unless you plan on shooting 80 grain bullets at very long distance, which I doubt because of the 16" barrel, you have no need for a 7 twist. With a 7 twist barrel you also run the risk of seperating the jaket from the core on lightweight varmint bullets at the higher velocities. Stick with a 9 twist and you will be able to shoot everything from 69 grain down to 40 grain bullets.

Dolomite

I know all the cool kids need 1x7 lately, but I also prefer 1x9.

I think it's more versatile and most of my shooting is done with 55gr stuff.

BCM is quality...I haven't heard bad about M&A, but I have no experience with them.

[Il Duce]

dolomite, does the M&A come with a BCG and charge handle?

[DaveTN]

dolomite, does the M&A come with a BCG and charge handle?

Frequently Asked Questions M&A Parts, Inc.

DO THE BARRELED UPPERS COME WITH...?

We use the words and deffinitions that are used by military technical manuals. Here are the following recognized 4 component assembly sub-groups: 1) The barreled upper (BU), 2) The Bolt Carrier Assembly and Charging Handle (BCA/CH), 3) The lower receiver parts set (LRPK), 4) Buttstock assembly.

We also use a civillian word: kit. That includes everything except your stripped lower receiver. It does include all 4 component groups as above. No magazines, bullets or targets, though

So~ a barreled upper is just that. Add a BCA/CH to any of our 5.56 barreled uppers for $100. When people buy a barreled upper, they usually have an operational AR15 and quite often they will swap out their existing bolt carrier assy and charging handle from their old upper~ that's why we sell them as a seperate items.

As a further example: Our A4 Flat Top barreled uppers do not come with rear sights, scope mounts or night vision optics. We try to describe things very literally.

[Il Duce]

haha i guess i should have looked there first. thanks

[Il Duce]

info on M&A

Why are your prices higher than some others that I have seen advertised?

It is because of quality factors. We buy all of our parts from current manufacturer USGI and Government Contractors. We make nothing on premises nor from any foreign country.

Everything is US manufactured that goes into your AR15 rifle. Our upper receivers are manufactured by Lewis Machine and Tool, and LMT cuts and chambers the uppers using Wilson or Mike Rock Premium Barrel Blanks, which they then headspace and test fire. We do have some Rock River Barreled Uppers as noted. [The few foreign parts that are shown on this website are so noted in the descriptions – they do not come in any rifle/carbine kit, period.]

[killerford]

bravo company

[Il Duce]

nevermind on those two. I am going with a J&T Distributing upper.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Il Duce

[Il Duce]

appreciate that and thanks for saving me from a possible headache.

how is this one? its dpms

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=416788

Edited May 30, 2010 by Il Duce

[Dolomite_supafly]

In short, no. There are better choices out there for not much more.

Message sent with links that might help you decide.

Dolomite

[R1100R]

There is nothing wrong with DPMS I own and have owned several over the years.

Great customer service. The one from midway is not a bad price because it includes the

BCG and CH. The others you were looking at didn't. There are many entry level uppers for under 500.00.

Aim surplus has a good deal on some Spikes M4 and Mid length complete upper assemblies.

The specs are very good on them.

Edited May 31, 2010 by R1100R

[Jasongar8]

I TOTALLY disagree about buying J&T products. My family has built 25+ AR's and they have all been with J&T kits. We have never had a single problem out of any of them. The only thing we have had was a gas tube blow up, but that was after several consecutive Beta mag dumps out of a 7.5" barrel. If you prefer a chrome lined barrel all of J&T's are stamped "chrome" on top of the barrel.

[Il Duce]

thanks to dolomite he sent me a link to exactly what i was looking for

Stag Arms

[DaveTN]

For those who don't believe most parts come from one or two places look at the uppers from different manufacturers, not the online kit sellers but actual branded AR's. I have seen the same keyhole forging mark on S&W, Bushmaster, as well as numerous others. All of them with the keyhole forging mark come from the same plant, the Cerro Forge. The same goes for most lowers. Even though they are branded with a specific company there are very few places that actually make them. Once made those lowers are marked specifically for the brand they will be sold under. CMT is probably the biggest maker of lowers that are branded for others to sell under their own name.

Who does the machining is usually more important than who made a casting or forging.

I work in the Aero Space industry and we make many parts from castings and forgings. You can see the fit and finish difference between two shops. But more important is the location and the dimensional tolerance of features in the part. I can put two parts from different shops on my CMM and there will be differences. I can run profilometer on parts and there will be a difference. Both parts may be within tolerance but because of the difference one may be a better performer in the end product.

So if the casting or forging and the machining were all done by the same shop; I would agree that they are probably the same quality. But the fact that a forging or casting came from the same place would mean very little to me; the shop that finished them would be more important.

What feature does the Stag have that is not available in the DPMS?