Gay's in the military.

[Will Carry]

Now I got nothing against gays. I think they should have to fight for their freedom as much as any man or woman. My liberal friends think I'm old fashion but I have this vision in my head of two gay grunts in a fox hole on a listening post, forward observation post or just on guard duty. I won't go into anymore detail than that. But it just seems to me you could have some problems that could get soldiers killed. So I have one question.

Would you feel comfortable putting an 18 year old male soldier in a fox hole with a really hot sexy female soldier? I rest my case.

[Smith]

The concern has always been that relationships will cause soldiers to respond differently than how they are trained. With women men tend to be more protective at the risk of other males troops, which is why women have not traditionally been put in combat roles. Leftist who see the world through unrealistic Utopian eyes think that human nature and reality play no part, but when lives are on the line all that gets thrown out the window. Kinda like the book smart genius who can' figure out how to drive a manual.

[Mike.357]

I do not beleive they put woman on the front line, certainly not in holes.

I have no problems with gays or with gays serving, but I think don't ask don't tell is a good idea. If they can openly serve as gays there is going to be big problems.

I also assume that gays are known to everyone who serves with them, but having to keep quiet about it kind of keeps a lid on things.

I would love to hear from those that serve.

[Will Carry]

Yeah it is a touchy subject. Their have been gay soldiers as long as their have been wars. I believe I read that Alexander the Great would let one rest.

[Smith]

Alexander the Great is one you have to do a lot of reading between the lines to come up with that. The same people who purport that are the same ones that insist all Sparta men were gay as an institution. Yes there were some cultural issues, but it is a recent phenomenon to portray historical fugues in that light and part of a certain agenda to retell history. Heck all Japanese are gay because they hold hands in public.

[Kegger]

I don't see how that would even be a possibility.

Men and women are currently serving together in combat, in the field, and fraternization hasn't been a problem between them, so why should it be for gay's?

[Mr. Brooks]

I do not beleive they put woman on the front line, certainly not in holes.

I have no problems with gays or with gays serving, but I think don't ask don't tell is a good idea. If they can openly serve as gays there is going to be big problems.

I also assume that gays are known to everyone who serves with them, but having to keep quiet about it kind of keeps a lid on things.

I would love to hear from those that serve.

You hit the nail on the head.

There was a case at Ft. Campbell a few years ago where a gay infantryman was beat to death in his room by fellow soldiers. Sadly I could see that kind of thing happening more often if this passes.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't see how that would even be a possibility.

Men and women are currently serving together in combat, in the field, and fraternization hasn't been a problem between them, so why should it be for gay's?

Fraternization has been a HUGE problem, especially in combat zones. You just don't see it on the news.

[Mike.357]

I would bet there is a lot of playing hide the pickle between gays as well as hetero's, but I would guess they try to keep it discreet.

[Daniel]

You hit the nail on the head.

There was a case at Ft. Campbell a few years ago where a gay infantryman was beat to death in his room by fellow soldiers. Sadly I could see that kind of thing happening more often if this passes.

PFC winchell was in my unit. He wasnt killed for being gay. He was killed for kicking his room mates ass. The roommates friends then made fun of him all night while drinking in the barracks until he went and killed the man in his sleep by beating him with a baseball bat. Winchell had supposedly been dating a drag queen he met through the room mate in Nashville.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Daniel

[Daniel]

Fraternization has been a HUGE problem, especially in combat zones. You just don't see it on the news.

My friend phil would **** one of the medics at brigade hq whenever he would bring an officer by to go to the BUB. The only other guy I knew that got any was married to a different medic and the command would give him a mission to where she was located occasionally.

[Daniel]

I was in a Rifle company though so not any women.

[Mr. Brooks]

PFC winchell was in my unit. He wasnt killed for being gay. He was killed for kicking his room mates ass. The roommates friends then made fun of him all night while drinking in the barracks until he went and killed the man in his sleep by beating him with a baseball bat. Winchell had supposedly been dating a drag queen he met through the room mate in Nashville.

The fight was started because of his relationship with the drag queen. It is obvious that his sexual preference contributed to the situation.

However this is just an example of how extreme things can get.

[Mr. Brooks]

My friend phil would **** one of the medics at brigade hq whenever he would bring an officer by to go to the BUB. The only other guy I knew that got any was married to a different medic and the command would give him a mission to where she was located occasionally.

I was in a Rifle company though so not any women.

I work in special operations so I don't work with many females either. When deployed I do work with other units that do have females. I have seen fraternization between officers and enlisted, married and single; you name it. People are put at risk and careers get ended but it continues to happen. I am just glad I don't have to deal with it in my unit.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I do not beleive they put woman on the front line, certainly not in holes.

I have no problems with gays or with gays serving, but I think don't ask don't tell is a good idea. If they can openly serve as gays there is going to be big problems.

I also assume that gays are known to everyone who serves with them, but having to keep quiet about it kind of keeps a lid on things.

I would love to hear from those that serve.

Maybe not intentionally Mike but it is happening in Iraq as we speak, remember Jessica Lynch?.......trainined as a clerk for a maintenance company yet she was part of that convoy. (A Combat/Invasion convoy) Convoys in Iraq are in fact = to the "front lines" in other wars we have been in.

The women will also pull Guard Duties just as the men, and while the actual Fox-Hole thing isnt used much in Iraq, it isnt much different than being in a elevated guard tower or simple sand bagged defense position.

The Military has found that it is nearly impossible to keep the women completely out of harms way as was the original intent. They dont let them join the Infantry but they can and do become MP's and MP's are just as much in the line of fire as the infantry most of the time. And again no matter what job they are trained to do, they are going to at some point be in a combat position.

And it isnt just the women....even male soldiers are being asked to do jobs that they were not trained for every time they are asked to fill a seat on a convoy. Everyone (at least in the Army) goes thru BCT or Basic Combat Training, but the training is far from what is really needed to actually be actively IN combat.

But in our current conflicts every soldier is subject to be in the line of fire at some point, regardless of what they are trained to do. Seats on convoys must be filled and guard positions must be also filled. (I started to say "manned":rolleyes:)

It has been a few years since I was discharged but the overall thinking then (2008) was against Open Service for Gay people and very admamant against any type of draft. They didnt have us showering with the women and no one I know of wanted to know for sure that they may be showering with someone who they KNEW was gay.

I think the "Dont ask Dont tell" is the best policy and things should be kept that way.

As for me, I'll take that fox-hole or guard tower with a hot lady any day:)

Which of course that is or at least could be a problem, Yet it happens most every day, and we dont hear of many problems if any. Then again rapes and sexual assaults are at an all time high in the military.

I would expect that there have been gay encounters during guard duty also with the policy that we currently have in place.

I just dont see how being able to Openly serve helps the person or the military. Rather I see the idea being detrimental to morale and it causing fewer people to be willing to enlist. Of course these are just my opinions.

[Kegger]

Yes I know that fraternization does occur in a combat zone. I'm referring to fraternization in the OP's context, two joes in a foxhole.

[Mike.357]

nice explanation of "front lines" Sgt Joe, thanks for clarrifying.

[towerclimber37]

Yes I know that fraternization does occur in a combat zone. I'm referring to fraternization in the OP's context, two joes in a foxhole.

Dude....sex is sex. You and I both know it occurs anywhere and anytime when 2 young folks are concerned. Sexual orientation doesn't matter.

I was in a combat unit in the gulf war...when I finally rotated back stateside, I was assigned as a unit armorer in a Personnel battalion. (yah, I was lucky as heck!!).

I heard the stories though. One married female got preggo by a private (not her husband) and was rotated stateside, One officer was caught with an E5...

there were more stories..but I didn't pay much attention to them.

here's some facts for you...this is an old study..but it's still pertinent.

Some statistics about the Homosexual lifestyle:

* One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3)

* One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime

* Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7)

* Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior" (16)

* Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27)

* Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population

* Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27)

* 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13)

* 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11)

* Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex

* 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20)

* Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10)

* Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10)

* 50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10)

* Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person" (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality

* It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10)

* Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population

* Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8)

* 37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8)

* 41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8)

* Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries (8)

* The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8)

* The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8)

* Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8)

* 21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8)

* 50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18)

* About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12).

Homosexuals prey on children.

* 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7)

* There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States

* Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19)

* 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9)

* Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22)

* Because homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their homosexual parades. A group called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren't as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page, and DC Lesbian Avengers Press Release, where they threaten to recruit little boys and girls. Also, see AFA Action Alert.

The homosexual agenda.

* The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public: "The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games....At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won" (25)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives" (27)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion" (1)

* Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness" (17).

The true number of homosexuals.

* The Kinsey study of 1948, which homosexuals often cite to say that 10% of the population is homosexual, actually says that only 4% of the population is EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a disproportionate number of people who had been in jail for sex crimes (hardly a random sample of the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies involving young boys and pedophiles. Information on Kinsey

* Current research shows that the true percentage of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28). Consider how small this number is when compared to most of the numbers above.

Homosexuals aren't discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class?

* The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00 (24)

* 59.6% of homosexuals are college graduates. 18.0% of the general population are college graduates (24). Too bad they aren't smart enough to listen to God. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

* 49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24). Where's the job discrimination?

Sexual Orientation

• A phrase that has come up recently in this earth is "sexual orientation." This is a phrase made up by homosexuals to try to make themselves look less filthy than they really are. The purpose of the phrase is to take the spotlight from what these perverts do, and put it on the notion that they are just poor, mistreated people, who simply are attracted to members of the same sex - as if they aren't engaging in activity forbidden by God Almighty. "Sexual orientation," as used today, has nothing to do with sexual activity (yeah, right), but only refers to who or what a particular person is attracted to. If you think that people of other "sexual orientations" are just fine, let's see what other "sexual orientations" you would necessarily have to accept as wholesome and pure. If you're not going to discriminate based on "sexual orientation", then you must not discriminate against any of the following. Bestiality, pedophile, necrophilia., exhibitionism, fetishism, frotteurism, masochism, sadism, transvestitism, voyeurism. If you discriminate against any of these, you're a hypocrite. These "sexual orientations" are generally known as "paraphilias", and are mental disorders - just like homosexuality used to be (29).

•

REFERENCES

(1) Advocate, 1985

(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry

(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978

(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299

(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987

(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38

(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE

(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA

(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275

(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992

(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254

(12) Lesbian News, January 1994

(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11

(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438

(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy (16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco." Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96

(17) Newsweek, February 1993

(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993

(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37

(20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53

(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We Talk." (22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992

(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322

(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990

(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide Magazine. November, 1987

(26) United States Census Bureau (27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989

(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research Corp

(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.

[Guest Jamie]

The homosexual agenda.

* The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public: "The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games....At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won" (25)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives" (27)

* Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian religion" (1)

* Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness" (17).

I believe I'm detecting an agenda here, but not by gays and lesbians...

J.

[buck1032]

I retired from the Navy in 05 so my opinion wasn’t really asked for but I'll toss it out there anyway.

As most know/realize the military is just a cross section of the US. There are gays, crooks, straights, pedophiles, thieves, Christians, Catholics, Muslim, etc, in each branch. The problem I see with open service amongst the "alternative lifestyle" folks is it going to shoved down EVERYONES throat, just what happened after the Tailhook incident. I didn’t and still don’t care who 'you' want to sleep with, I just don’t want to see it or hear about it at work/on duty. However when this changes the over all moral will suffer due to the excess of BS GMT that will have to be attended by that rank and file. Then add to the tension that WILL be brought into the individual units when the "doors are flung open", there will be more incidents.

[Mike.357]

people who have sex with children are pedophiles

[Guest Jamie]

people who have sex with children are pedophiles

Definitely. They don't need any other name, qualification, or term applied to them. They are in a class all of their own.

J.

[Daniel]

Hmm. I have heard of NAMBLA but always as a joke. I looked it up and it's real lol.

North American Man/Boy Love Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

it doesn't seem to have people at every gay pride parade.