Somewhat shocked

[Guest sck]

I didn't realized people failed. I just assumed in Williamson county we had the "No Shooter Left Behind."

[Guest Jamie]

Saw a woman fail the shooting portion of a class because she couldn't grasp the concept of not wrapping her off-hand thumb over the back of her shooting hand... while firing an auto.

Once they got the bleeding stopped they sent her home...

J.

[Guest MrChicken]

Failing the written portion takes a special level of stupid...it's open book. If they can't read....doom on them

The worst passing score on the written test I've seen was a 72 (70 is passing). On the students information sheet he listed his occupation as "Memphis City Public School Teacher".

[Fallguy]

Dunno. The first class I was in, and the renewal refresher HCP class, both contained a mix of fairly upper-yuppie folk. Doctors, lawyers, businessmen, housewives, grannies. I was surprised how well grannie did on the silhouette target.

There is no substitute for training/experience, but the purpose of that course is not to turn civilians into expert police.

Renewal refresher HCP class?

You know you don't have to take the class to renew, right?

[Fallguy]

It wasn't the people with little or no experience who made me uneasy in my class.. It was the guy next to me who remarked to his friend, "I'm a f*****g bad-ass now - PD better not try to come into my house!" after (just barely) qualifying with a borrowed .22.

It's amazing to me how many people get a HCP and seem to only be interested in home defense.

Has society programed them to think they need a permit just to have a firearm at home?

[Guest MrChicken]

Renewal refresher HCP class?

You know you don't have to take the class to renew, right?

You do if you forget to renew in time

[Fallguy]

You do if you forget to renew in time

Yep.....

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Sounds similar to my HCP class I took.

Half was guys that knew their guns but half didn't know diddly squat. There was a lady that bought a brand new chrome gun (don't remember what it was) but kept having problems with it and at the range, she pointed towards the instructor by accident since the gun wouldn't fire (BAD MISTAKE!)

At the end, she got the HCP but I would be deathly terrified to be around her...

[eapking]

Wow i was not expecting such a hot topic. Just to clarify , i am not trying to step on anyone's rights or what not just expressing my concern. IMHO the HCP class should not be the first time someone is shooting a firearm. And ofcourse it should not be the last supervised session someone is going to shoot. if possible get some familiarization through freinds, family and i am sure there are people on TGO who'd be willing to help out people hoping to learn more.

No toes stepped on here MK19. I agree with you for the most part. One of the scariest moments I've had was being on the range for the HCP firing test with a few folks who were almost bragging they'd never shot before. And then they proceeded to cover a few in the class.

I think it's everyone's responsibility to get more training if not before the HCP, definetly after. I'm for sure not asking for more laws/requirements, in fact I don't think we need an HCP at all. But people have got to take some personal responsibility for this stuff. The HCP class and firing test is weak in my book. If that's all you've done...it's not enough.

Rock On!

[Fallguy]

Not everyone that drives a car is a NASCAR driver and/or an ASE mechanic.

I really don't think you have to be a tactical expert and/or gunsmith to be able to carry.

[Guest fourspdRAT]

Yall should just be glad that people have to take some form of a class to get their permit. All you need here is $15 or $20 and can clear a background check. It took me all of 10 minutes to get my permit. As convienient as it is, it worries me to think of some of the people who could have a gun with them..

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Renewal refresher HCP class?

You know you don't have to take the class to renew, right?

Hi Fallguy

I'm a procrastinator. Waited til the last renewal day. Got over to the drivers service center and the derned place was closed when it was scheduled to be open. I complained the next business day, but the drivers license office folks were not especially sympathetic <g>.

Didn't make that mistake on the second renewal.

A couple of questions--

Did they change the renewal regulations over the last few years? Just reviewed the tn.gov FAQ, and it doesn't read exactly as I recalled it, but maybe that is faulty memory. I don't recall a "6 month past expiration date" provision back when I missed the renewal, but maybe am forgetting and I procrastinated until the last day of the 6 month latency period. But that is pretty sloppy even for my habits.

I also recall being told back around Y2K that you can renew one time, but after 8 years (one renewal) you have to take the class again. But the FAQ doesn't say that nowadays. Am I remembering that wrong, or did they change the renewal requirement since?

It's amazing to me how many people get a HCP and seem to only be interested in home defense.

Has society programed them to think they need a permit just to have a firearm at home?

How many folks take the course because it is the only available course to learn something about handguns, and they have no intention of getting an HCP? Wife took the course with no intention of getting and HCP, and she never got one. I didn't expect to carry, but changed mind after taking the course. Thought about it awhile after taking the course.

Dunno what a 'good' HCP course should look like. Marine bootcamp maybe? Police Academy?

If some city feller on a whim takes a hunter safety course, does he graduate an expert hunter?

[Fallguy]

Hi Fallguy

I'm a procrastinator. Waited til the last renewal day. Got over to the drivers service center and the derned place was closed when it was scheduled to be open. I complained the next business day, but the drivers license office folks were not especially sympathetic <g>.

Didn't make that mistake on the second renewal.

A couple of questions--

Did they change the renewal regulations over the last few years? Just reviewed the tn.gov FAQ, and it doesn't read exactly as I recalled it, but maybe that is faulty memory. I don't recall a "6 month past expiration date" provision back when I missed the renewal, but maybe am forgetting and I procrastinated until the last day of the 6 month latency period. But that is pretty sloppy even for my habits.

I also recall being told back around Y2K that you can renew one time, but after 8 years (one renewal) you have to take the class again. But the FAQ doesn't say that nowadays. Am I remembering that wrong, or did they change the renewal requirement since?

To answer the second question first, Ever since the law was in place you didn't have to take a class again to renew, no matter how long since first getting your permit.

You have always been able to renew up to 6 months before expiration and AFAIK it has always been that you have up to 6 months after it expires to apply for renewal without having to take a class again, you just can't carry until your new permit comes in. So even if it was 2-3 months after the expiration date you shouldn't have had to take the class again to renew, let alone a day or two.

How many folks take the course because it is the only available course to learn something about handguns, and they have no intention of getting an HCP? Wife took the course with no intention of getting and HCP, and she never got one. I didn't expect to carry, but changed mind after taking the course. Thought about it awhile after taking the course.

Dunno what a 'good' HCP course should look like. Marine bootcamp maybe? Police Academy?

If some city feller on a whim takes a hunter safety course, does he graduate an expert hunter?

Depending on where you live there are seveal firearms courses out there not related to getting your HCP.

[Guest MrChicken]

How many folks take the course because it is the only available course to learn something about handguns, and they have no intention of getting an HCP? Wife took the course with no intention of getting and HCP, and she never got one. I didn't expect to carry, but changed mind after taking the course. Thought about it awhile after taking the course.

The HCP class is a good beginner class if the school teaches it that way. Trying to market a seperate "beginner" class is losing proposition, it just is not marketable vs a good HCP class. The HCP class teaches beginner level material and qualifies you to apply for a HCP, versus a class that sounds to the layman to be be essentially the same thing but doesnt qualify for a HCP.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

To answer the second question first, Ever since the law was in place you didn't have to take a class again to renew, no matter how long since first getting your permit.

You have always been able to renew up to 6 months before expiration and AFAIK it has always been that you have up to 6 months after it expires to apply for renewal without having to take a class again, you just can't carry until your new permit comes in. So even if it was 2-3 months after the expiration date you shouldn't have had to take the class again to renew, let alone a day or two.

Thanks Fallguy

Difficult to recall details. Must have missed the 6 month expiration target by one day then. Sloppy, sloppy. Either that or the drivers license folks told me the wrong info. Think I recall the driver license service center was closed that day because of budget problems or something dumb. Looking at the likely renewal date, it coincides with shuttling a sickly dog back'n'forth to the Knoxville UT Vet Hospital. Wasn't a good year.

Anyway, the course wasn't expensive or unpleasant to retake. Had the opportunity to get the top shooting score of the class second time around anyway. Not especially difficult competing against newbies <g>.

[lock n' load]

When I took my HCP class last year, our instructor asked how many in the class had little to no experience firing handguns. There were several who raised their hands. She then stated that they would probably end up shooting better than most people there. What was weird was she was right. Yeah they could have lied and said they didn't know how to shoot but some of their scores were in middle to upper 90's.

[tnhawk]

Dunno. The first class I was in, and the renewal refresher HCP class, both contained a mix of fairly upper-yuppie folk. Doctors, lawyers, businessmen, housewives, grannies. I was surprised how well grannie did on the silhouette target.

There is no substitute for training/experience, but the purpose of that course is not to turn civilians into expert police.

The HCP class wasn't designed to make you proficient, it is the minimum state requirement. After training in the military, several classes and lots of practice, I'm still not as proficient as I hope to become.

I haven't seen a refresher class available anywhere. I've taken to HCP class several times over the years to keep up to date on changes in the laws.

[mk19]

1) Please expand on the part in bold.

2) Regarding the part in italics: .

If not the first whomever who goes to HCP and it is their first time shooting should get some professional training after wards. this is for their own good, as we are responsible for every round leaving our handguns.

and for 2 I was just puting out ideas, it maynot work for everyone, but for whomever it works for it is there

Everyone be safe. I may not get to come online for a while.

[Fallguy]

Thanks Fallguy

Difficult to recall details. Must have missed the 6 month expiration target by one day then. Sloppy, sloppy. Either that or the drivers license folks told me the wrong info. Think I recall the driver license service center was closed that day because of budget problems or something dumb. Looking at the likely renewal date, it coincides with shuttling a sickly dog back'n'forth to the Knoxville UT Vet Hospital. Wasn't a good year.

Anyway, the course wasn't expensive or unpleasant to retake. Had the opportunity to get the top shooting score of the class second time around anyway. Not especially difficult competing against newbies <g>.

Hmmm...wouldn't have been the first time someone at the DL station gave out wrong info about a HCP.

....and I understand bad days/months/years....

Also in the spirit of full disclosure, I have thought about sitting through a course again....just to see what is taught now versus 13 years ago.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The HCP class wasn't designed to make you proficient, it is the minimum state requirement. After training in the military, several classes and lots of practice, I'm still not as proficient as I hope to become.

I haven't seen a refresher class available anywhere. I've taken to HCP class several times over the years to keep up to date on changes in the laws.

Hi tnhawk

My refresher was because I screwed up and didn't renew in time.

Am pretty certain around Y2K an instructor told me I'd have to take the course again after 8 years to renew a second time regardless. I realize now that this is not correct info. Maybe am recalling it incorrectly, but am pretty sure I was told this rather than a false memory.

Maybe in my area today there are other training classes available. The Y2K class instructors were a city detective and semi-retired military trainer. Nice fellers. The retired guy said he was available to give private lessons, but tried calling him a few times afterwards and he was always too busy.

I've practiced regularly for a decade, but it wouldn't be surprising to choke in an actual emergency. Pros choke often enough as far as that goes. The gun is only a last line of defense when "run like hell" is not an option <g>. It ain't a sure thang. Nothing is.

If one carefully avoids potential bad situations, the odds are pretty low of ever needing the pistol. At least in my neighborhood.

The gun and training are kinda like house fire extinguishers. I have pretty decent fire extinguishers in every room of the house. But the odds of a house fire are low, and fire extinguishers don't always work. So my risk assessment is that about $100 per fire extinguisher is about tops. $1000 fire extinguishers probably wouldn't work that much better in the household situation, especially when the odds are that they will spend their service life sitting on a shelf, and be retired un-used.

Police have much higher risk than cautious civilians, and therefore can justify more time/money preparing for the risk.

Wish had time for something like IDPA. One would think that kind of competition, though not completely realistic, would be better than nothing?

[rogue_rob]

Man, I thought this would be a thread about him being tazzed with a weak tazer.

"somewhat shocked"

hehe, I'll be here all night and don't forget to tip your waitress.

[Guest smileyguy]

That's the great thing about this country. We can all have opinions.

It is my understanding that the framers of the Constitution provided the 2nd amendment to ALL people not just those with a decent amount about shooting pistols.

Maybe some of the people had never held a pistol but could shoot the wings off a gnat at 100 yards with a .22?

The class is to provide a basic understanding of the LAWS involved in carrying a firearm. It also assures the instructor that the person applying can hit the broad side of the barn when necessary.

Notice there is no "expert" on the range portion only 48 to 50 shots sent down range.

Should you continue to train after the class? Certainly but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to obtain a permit if you didn't train before.

Should you have a basic understanding of pistols/revolvers? Of course but that shouldn't mean you are not allowed to obtain a permit if you can pass the class.

Enjoy your carry permit if/when you get it.

Well said!

Hopefully these people will continue to train and learn. Personally I'm glad to hear that more newbies are practicing their 2nd ammendment rights.