Reliability of a percussion revolver.

[Guest Jamie]

Hey, Forklift!

Wish I'd caught that you used my first post here to beat some folks over the head, over on TFL... I'd've come help you and Tim kick 'em in the shins over there, before the thread was locked.

( I'm a member there, and at both the Highroad sites. )

One of the things most people may not be aware of, regarding "Wild Bill" Hickok is that he chose to keep using his .36 Navies long after cartridge guns were available.

Can't imagine a fellow in his line of work doing that if he had any reliability problems out of them at all.

Also, most folks tend to either forget or ignore the fact that a dud CARTRIDGE isn't unheard of either... it's one reason cited by people who want a gun with "second strike" capability.

( I've found rounds with no primer at all, in a brand new box of Remington ammo. And several rounds of various brands with primers set in the pocket sideways. )

J.

[JAB]

What I've used is plain old Extra Virgin walmart house brand...

I guess some Extra Virgins are just more sticky/gummy than others.

J.

Okay, I know little and nothing about black powder revolvers. I have a couple of cap and ball long guns but haven't fired them, much. I do know a little about cooking, etc. though. Extra Virgin olive oil usually means it is from at least one of the first pressings of the olives if not the first pressing. Such oil has more 'solids' from the olives (may not be the official term but it suits the purposes of this discussion.) These solids give the oil more flavor but also lower their smoke point - which is why they (especially the really high quality ones) are best for using in dressings or as a drizzling/dipping oil and only used in cooking applications where they won't be exposed to high heat, if at all. The better ones often have a 'green' tone to them from the solids they contain. Subsequent pressings of olive oil have fewer solids (i.e. less of that distinct flavor) and are generally lighter/clearer in color but are more suitable for cooking as their smoke points are a little higher. There are also modern processing and refining methods by which these lower grades of olive oil may be obtained.

I have noticed that even olive oils marked 'Extra Virgin' vary in 'solids' content, etc. with the better ones (for eating) costing more - and some being very expensive. I suspect that Mike .357's 'head chef and bottle washer' probably had a good, quality (i.e. high 'solids' content) Extra Virgin olive oil onhand and that the higher 'solids' content contributed to making it become sticky. I further suspect that Jamie's 'Walmart house brand' of Extra Virgin olive oil is not as high quality, as far as flavor and 'solids' content goes, possibly lowering it's 'gummy' potential. Just a thought, though.

Edited May 28, 2010 by JAB

[Guest Jamie]

I suspect that Mike .357's 'head chef and bottle washer' probably had a good, quality (i.e. high 'solids' content) Extra Virgin olive oil onhand and that the higher 'solids' content contributed to making it become sticky. I further suspect that Jamie's 'Walmart house brand' of Extra Virgin olive oil is not as high quality, as far as flavor and 'solids' content goes, possibly lowering it's 'gummy' potential. Just a thought, though.

You're probably right... it at least sounds reasonable.

I do know that if you ever use corn oil on your gun, you won't need a holster before too long; you can just stick it to your hip or where ever you want it, and it'll stay put.

J.

[Mike.357]

your olive oil lecture makes a ton of sense. I just went and looked at the bottle I took it from. It is high dollar stuff from Pietra Santa, who also make high dollar wines. I am guessing it has a ton if impurities. Next time I go to the IGA I will look for the cheapest stuff they have and give that a try.

And yes corn oil is bad news for a lube, turns to gum very quickly. Learned that years ago, One guess how I learned, LOL

[Guest Jamie]

And yes corn oil is bad news for a lube, turns to gum very quickly. Learned that years ago, One guess how I learned, LOL

Probably the same way I did...

Kerosene doesn't even wanna cut that stuff after it sets up.

J.

[gregintenn]

Why use cooking oil? I use the same oils I use for every other gun. Am I missing something?

[StPatrick]

JAB is absolutely right about oils, and there's another point - the stuff made by Ma Nature is a blend of all kinds of different oils and oil-like chemicals. Some of the "natural ingredients" will oxidize (with or without heat) which leads to all the issues you can think of when you think of oil going bad.

Synthetics don't have this issue, since they're specifically formulated for a particular use, and taste bad on chicken.

My : try some Slide Glide. I just read the BP threads for fun, and don't own one, but grease is grease, and it's been a solid performer on my (modern semi-auto) pistols.

[Guest Jamie]

Why use cooking oil? I use the same oils I use for every other gun. Am I missing something?

Petroleum products do bad things when mixed with black powder. Natural oils don't, though some of 'em can sour or turn sticky after a while.

J.

[Mike.357]

Why use cooking oil? I use the same oils I use for every other gun. Am I missing something?

dino oil and grease reacts with black powder and causes the fouling to get hard.

If my BP pistols are lubed with regular oil, they will not cycle through as many rounds as if i use lubes that do not come out of a hole drilled in the earth.

I have found that using Crisco over the balls enables me to get more rounds through the gun before it fouls and the cylinder does not rotate freely.

but grease is grease

not when it comes to a black powder revolver being able to cycle.

[Guest Jamie]

grease is grease

Unfortunately, this is not true. Mix some synthetics with the salts and sulfur compounds left behind by BP, and you can end up re-inventing plastic, concrete, etc.

Best to stick strictly with the natural stuff for any BP firearm.

Edit: Looks like Mike beat me to the punch.

J.

[StPatrick]

I guess I hadn't considered what lubes were available at the time the weapons were designed - this is why I read this stuff. Anybody tried peanut oil?

[towerclimber37]

ONE modern grease (tesla grease) has worked pretty darn good so far and hasn't reacted to any residue's.

[Guest Jamie]

ONE modern grease (tesla grease) has worked pretty darn good so far and hasn't reacted to any residue's.

Does burnt tesla grease produce any toxic by-products? ( Another thing one has to consider. )

Some of that stuff can leave behind all sorts of arsenic and/or cyanide compounds...

J.

[towerclimber37]

Does burnt tesla grease produce any toxic by-products? ( Another thing one has to consider. )

Some of that stuff can leave behind all sorts of arsenic and/or cyanide compounds...

J.

nah, it's made for rifles. I actually use it for all my modern rifles also.

[Guest Jamie]

nah, it's made for rifles. I actually use it for all my modern rifles also.

Knock that crap out'a your head.

Is it made for BLACK POWDER?

And yes, BP really is a whole different animal.

J.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Jamie

[towerclimber37]

Knock that crap out'a your head.

Is it made for BLACK POWDER?

And yes, BP really is a whole different animal.

J.

it actually DOES work with black powder It doesn't give off any dangerous odors when it's burned, doesn't seize up or turn gooey..but I change it every time I clean my pistol.

The last time I fired my pistol was at the bp shoot we had the other year, I fired quite a bit with no troubles.

it cleaned up and still turns beautifully..I know, you guys made me want to check it last night.

[Guest Jamie]

it actually DOES work with black powder It doesn't give off any dangerous odors when it's burned, doesn't seize up or turn gooey..but I change it every time I clean my pistol.

The last time I fired my pistol was at the bp shoot we had the other year, I fired quite a bit with no troubles.

it cleaned up and still turns beautifully..I know, you guys made me want to check it last night.

I just want you to understand that "for modern firearms" and "for black powder firearms" really is two entirely separate things.

After all, diesel fuel is made for "internal combustion engines", but wouldn't work too well in a gasoline engine, nor would gasoline work in the diesel.

The problem isn't necessarily what the grease leaves behind, so much as it is what will those leaving do when combined with what BP leaves behind.

J.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Jamie

[towerclimber37]

I just want you to understand that "for modern firearms" and "for black powder firearms" really is two entirely separate things.

After all, diesel fuel is made for "internal combustion engines", but wouldn't work too well in a gasoline engine, nor would gasoline work in the diesel.

The problem isn't necessarily what the grease leaves behind, so much as it is what will those leaving do when combined with what BP leaves behind.

J.

Oh yeah, I got a class on that when I got my pistol. I also learned a bit through reading stuff on the internet and from Mike .357...he's a bit of a BP fanatic.

[Guest Jamie]

Oh yeah, I got a class on that when I got my pistol. I also learned a bit through reading stuff on the internet and from Mike .357...he's a bit of a BP fanatic.

Tower, unless you have a degree in Chemistry, or Chemical Engineering, you don't know what you think you know.

There are all sorts of compounds in modern greases or lubes that may end up not burning off as they would in a smokeless firearm, and combining with the sulfur and such of black powder. ( Mercury, lithium, arsenic, cyanide, zinc, teflon, etc. are a few possible "left-overs".) The products of that may or may not gum up your gun's inner workings, and they may or may not gum up your inner workings. ( And they may also be completely odorless. ) But why risk it?

Now, I've never heard of tesla grease, and I don't know what's in it... and I'm not gonna take a chance of it producing something I don't wanna have to deal with later on down the road.

Anyway, you do as you see fit, and good luck to ya.

I'll be sticking with the natural lubes though, for black powder. They've worked for centuries and haven't caused too much trouble.

Oh, and a side note here... Black Powder is not corrosive. Neither are the soot and crud left behind once it's burned. The problem though it that the salts left behind are hygroscopic... they attract moisture from the air. This combines with the left-over sulfur compounds and creates sulfuric acids... and those rust and eat up your gun.

J.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Jamie

[Murgatroy]

Great thread.

Made me pull my cap and ball revolver out and clean it. I had no clue about the oils. I had been using Remoil on mine for years.

[Mike.357]

Remoil and other dino oils will work on a limited basis, if you only load and shoot the cylinder a few times in an outing you are probably all right.

[Guest Jamie]

I won't use Rem oil on anything except modern guns, or occasionally on the outside surface of the Remmy, due to the teflon in it. I don't want it anywhere it can burn with the BP.

J.

[Mike.357]

I sm picking up what you are putting down Jamie, but I am not sure how much rem oil is burning when it is for the internal parts.

I admit I had never thought of consequences of the interaction of the different chemicals more only function.

I would not use the Rem on the cylinder pin, some Crisco has always worked fairly well

[towerclimber37]

Tower, unless you have a degree in Chemistry, or Chemical Engineering, you don't know what you think you know.

J.

Nah, I don't claim to know all that stuff. I just know a leetle Engrish..I red the riting on the tube of greese

[Guest Jamie]

I admit I had never thought of consequences of the interaction of the different chemicals more only function.

I didn't either until I starting having symptoms that were later diagnosed as COPD... That's Chronic Obstructed Pulmonary Disorder. They started in my late 20s, early 30s.

All from having spent a little more than a decade breathing sand ( silica dust ), Lime ( from mortar and concrete ), and various other chemicals related to the treatment of cement and concrete. ( Sealers and muriatic acid )

That got me to studying up on the effects of various and sundry common substances on the human body...

Too little too late though.

The docs do kind'a look at me funny when they suggest I quit smoking and I ask 'em "why?". ( They don't ever seem to have an answer. )

Anyway, I pay a lot more attention to what I set fire to, and what I breath than I used to. Y'all should too.

J.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Jamie