Reliability of a percussion revolver.

[Guest Jamie]

I've read on several other forums where some people have said they wouldn't trust a Colt or Remington black powder revolver for anything past being an amusing range toy, due to them being "unreliable".

I have one such gun, a Remington 1858 New Army clone, that I figure some of you might have an interest in hearing about, regarding that.

It's an Uberti, with a 5 - 1/2 inch barrel, that I've had for a few years now. I've tuned it up, "aged" the finish, and pretty much keep it as my house and yard gun. I also keep it loaded at all times, sometimes for 4 or 5 months between firings.

Knowing how y'all love pics, here it is:

I have to say, the only time this gun hasn't fired was once when I was experimenting with various ways of sealing the caps, to waterproof the thing. Managed to contaminate the primers and had to re-cap to get it to fire. Oh well, no big deal. In the end, I discovered it didn't need sealing, unless I planned on going swimming with it. ( I don't. )

Yesterday I happened to remember that I hadn't had the thing out in a while, so I went and got it from it's usual resting place... and discovered that all the rain and humidity here lately had done some ugliness.

There was rust in the bolt notches, along the back of the frame beside the hammer... and the caps were all turning a nice shade of green. ( This color --> )

I was sure it wasn't going to fire, or at best, produce a squib if it did go off.

Well, upon taking it outside and very slowly and carefully pulling the trigger on each chamber, every round fired. There was no difference in how it acted, after sitting for 2 or 3 months, and turning all sorts of interesting colors, than if I had just loaded it.

And here's the funny part: It wasn't even loaded with real BP, or even pyrodex. I last loaded it with APP... American Pioneer Powder. A powder substitute that's notorious for sucking water out of the air. And it was all loaded without lube, wads, patches or sealants. Nothing more than powder, caps and balls.

So I have to say if anybody has ever doubted the reliability of a percussion gun... Don't. If they're loaded even halfway right, and aren't kept in a bucket of water, they'll go "bang" just as readily as any modern gun will, no matter how long they've been sitting.

Oh, and after cleaning up all the rust and grunge, mine is reloaded and back in it's usual spot.

I'll have to try and remember to check it a little more frequently, but I know that even if I don't, it'll still do it's job when I need it to.

J.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Jamie

[roverboy]

Thats great it fired good. The odds was against it firing good. I don't own a BP revolver but have left BP rifles loaded for months and they fired just fine. How accurate is yours? Have you ever tried to hunt anything with it?

[Guest forklift]

Excellent post, J. thanks for taking the time to do the report!

[jonlisha]

Anyone have any experience with those cheap BP revolvers cabelas sells? I have been thinking about getting one because they are so cheap and can be shipped right to you.

[Guest forklift]

They are Pietta made, which is discussed very heavily on the THR's blackpowder forum. For the most part, they are great and lots of buyers are happy.

Edited May 25, 2010 by forklift
link fix

[Guest Jamie]

Thats great it fired good. The odds was against it firing good. I don't own a BP revolver but have left BP rifles loaded for months and they fired just fine. How accurate is yours? Have you ever tried to hunt anything with it?

It's accurate enough to hunt with, if you cared to. ( I quit hunting years ago. )

It'll drop all the shots into 2 or 3 inches at 25 yards, off hand, with 25 grains of FFG or FFFg powder ( I mostly use either Pyrodex, APP, or 777 ), and a .457 round ball.

Using more powder seems to spread the group out, so I stick with 25 grains.

I also shoot 200 gr. conical bullets that I cast in a Lee mold... those are .450 dia. I think. They seem to like the 777, but so far have shot a little wider group than the round balls ( 3-1/2 to 4 inches ), even with a powder and load they like. ( 25 to 30 grains of powder. )

The conicals will shoot all the way through a 10 inch pine stump, with 25 gr. of FFG Pyro, so I don't see much need to use any more powder than that, even if it would fit behind the bullet. They're tougher to load than the round ball, and recoil is certainly more noticeable. They're still a lot of fun to poke holes in things with though, and would probably drop a deer without any problem at all.

I should mention that the heavier bullets do shoot a little higher out of my gun... maybe 2 or 3 inches at 25 yards.

J.

[Guest Jamie]

Anyone have any experience with those cheap BP revolvers cabelas sells? I have been thinking about getting one because they are so cheap and can be shipped right to you.

If you're talking about the brass framed guns, they're okay, but will wear out quicker than a steel framed gun. Especially if you like to shoot heavy or "hot" loads from 'em.

J.

[Guest Jamie]

By the way... Speaking of Cabela's guns...

Anybody looking for a good BP pistol for not a lot of money could certainly do worse than either of these two:

1858 New Army 5-1/2" Barrel .44 Caliber Revolver

1851 Navy Civilian .44 Caliber Revolver

If it were me, I'd skip their starter kit though, and pick up the stuff you want or need elsewhere.

J.

[tn_shooter]

Good stuff! BP firearms get a bad rap. I've owned and shot them for 20+ years. They're fun to load/shoot and deadly accurate with a little practice. If they didn't require double the cleaning time of my Colt 1911 I'd shoot them every weekend. There's just something about the smell and the lingering smoke from real black powder (I won't use the substitutes unless there's no BP to be had).

[gregintenn]

My 58 Remington copy goes bang every time I pull the trigger. It is among the most accurate handguns I own. A chamber filled with Pyrodex, and seated with a lead ball does the trick. As the cylinder cuts a small ring of lead from each ball when seated, I don't see a need for applying grease or whatever over the ball, and I've yet to have a chainfire. I rarely shoot it, because it is easier to wash and wax a car than to clean it. I haven't left it loaded for an extended period of time, but I'd expect it to fire if I did. I've left muzzleloaders loaded for a year at a time with no trouble getting them to fire.

[Mike.357]

Anyone have any experience with those cheap BP revolvers cabelas sells? I have been thinking about getting one because they are so cheap and can be shipped right to you.

they are inexpensive, not cheap.

I have had a brass framed 51 in .44 cal for over 30 years, I don't shoot it much anymore but it still works fine. Trigger is a little bit of a concern as it is sooo light now.

Jamie I am not surprised that your '58 went bang. They are fine pistols and very reliable.

The caps and balls seal the cylinder fairly well for long periods of time as you have proven. I have known some to use a bit of wax on the cap or a little snip of plastic tubing over the cap to help with longevity of the loads.

[Guest Jamie]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Pyrodex is harder to clean up than real black, and both of those are infinitely more trouble than APP and 777 are...

And yes, I agree that a good seal between the projectile and the chamber, as well as caps that fit tight on the nipples will eliminate any chain fires.

The only reason I have found to ever use any kind of lube is to keep the fouling of BP or Pyro soft.

J.

[Guest Jamie]

The caps and balls seal the cylinder fairly well for long periods of time as you have proven. I have known some to use a bit of wax on the cap or a little snip of plastic tubing over the cap to help with longevity of the loads.

As long as it's bee's wax and not candle wax (paraffin ) you're right.

The oils from paraffin will leach under the caps and kill the primers though... ( That was the sealing experiment I mentioned earlier. )

Best bet is to either buy caps that fit tight, or a new set of nipples that work well with the caps you tend to use/can find.

J.

[tn_shooter]

I too have found that "real black" also cleans up much better and easier than substitutes in all my BP pistol and rifles. Real BP also seems to be a lot less corrosive in my experience. One time I didn't clean my Enfield for about 9 months (something I won't do again mind you) after firing a lot and it cleaned up a lot better than I'd anticipated with no issues. I'm not a 777 fan because it seems to shoot hotter than real BP and affects my accuracy and I don't have the time to figure out the various loads for all the substitutes.

[Mike.357]

The oils from paraffin will leach under the caps and kill the primers though... ( That was the sealing experiment I mentioned earlier. )

very interesting, i would have sworn that it was paraffin, might have had bees wax in it to keep it soft. I have not used it so I will go with what you are saying.

Regular holy Black is easier to clean than Pyrodex. I never tried Triple 7.

A ball that is fatter than the cyplinder and shaves a nice ring of lead off will also help keep the ball seated, I agree that chain fires must come from the nipple side of the cylinder. I have never had a chain fire and hope to maintain that record. I use Crisco over the balls to keep fouling soft, and to help lube the cylinder pin.

also one thing I learned. I have heard others speak of lubing the internals with Olive Oil. I did that and after sitting a month or so the gun was near gummed up solid.

Won't make that mistake again.

[Capbyrd]

By the way... Speaking of Cabela's guns...

Anybody looking for a good BP pistol for not a lot of money could certainly do worse than either of these two:

1858 New Army 5-1/2" Barrel .44 Caliber Revolver

1851 Navy Civilian .44 Caliber Revolver

If it were me, I'd skip their starter kit though, and pick up the stuff you want or need elsewhere.

J.

Thanks. I just might have to get into BP now.

[Guest Jamie]

also one thing I learned. I have heard others speak of lubing the internals with Olive Oil. I did that and after sitting a month or so the gun was near gummed up solid.

Won't make that mistake again.

Okay, that's weird... 'cause all I've ever lubed mine with is olive oil... And at least so far, it's never gummed up. ( and you already know how long I let mine sit. )

'Fraid I'm just at a loss on that one....

J.

[towerclimber37]

I guess I'm a non purist...I used tesla grease on mine and it's never given me any troubles...you guys are making me want to go load my pistol for this weekend.

[Mike.357]

Okay, that's weird... 'cause all I've ever lubed mine with is olive oil... And at least so far, it's never gummed up. ( and you already know how long I let mine sit. )

'Fraid I'm just at a loss on that one....

J.

i tried it several different times and everytime the same results, well resulted. I ain't kidding it was like it was lubed with gum or something.

I cannot name the brand, just whatever stuff the head chef and bottle washer had around the house. I am sure it was extra virgin, dunno if that mattered. I always tried to keep Dino oil away from the internals.

[Guest TnRebel]

Nothing like the smell of Black Powder in the morning and wet due.

From Big guns and little guns.

[Guest Jamie]

I am sure it was extra virgin, dunno if that mattered.

What I've used is plain old Extra Virgin walmart house brand...

I guess some Extra Virgins are just more sticky/gummy than others.

J.

[Guest Jamie]

Nothing like the smell of Black Powder in the morning and wet due.

From Big guns and little guns.

Eeep! Sorry, but I draw the line at wearing all that wool...

Makes me itch just lookin' at it.

J.

[Glenn]

If you are making smoke, make a lot.

Glenn

[Mark@Sea]

I've got too many now, but that is a great price at Cabela's. If it was a .36...

I only thought I was getting them clean. Just for giggles I dropped one in the ultrasonic cleaner - that was a real eye opener.

I'm using eezox to lube, works well, cleanup is easy. Wonderwads instead of crisco.

[Guest Jamie]

If you are making smoke, make a lot.

Glenn

Looks like the guy in the rear there is saying "Did we get em'?"

I've got a small cannon... 1-1/4 inch smooth bore.... that makes a fair amount of smoke when it goes off. It don't do all that though.

J.