Gen3 to Gen4

[Guest CK1]

Decided to pick up a Gen4 G17 and determine what I think about it for myself... There's more that's stayed the same then has changed, there has been differing reports if the new Gen4 G17 is actually an improvement or mearly an attempt at fixing what ain't broke, taking the most solid 9mm on the planet and messing with it can rightly be approched with trepedation, and replacing a known rock solid performer with a new gun just for a better grip and mag release seems kind of foolish. What's 2mm in size, difference in texture, and larger mag button really mean? To many, probably not a lot, to me, A LOT.

First off, only 500rds through the Gen4 thus far, 0 issues, by my own standards that's not enough, but thus far seems to work just as well as it's older brother, which is exactly what I expect, nothing less.

Is the new dual-recoil assembly too stiff? IMO, yes, when at rest I'll keep the slide locked back and try to wear in the spring to take a softer set. Does it make the gun unreliable? IMO, no. Does it help reduce recoil? IMO, no. Does it make the gun shoot flatter? IMO, yes/maybe...

Fact is two things are changed that make the new model work better for me: grip is better (both size and texture), and the new mag release is an improvement without a doubt.

A new $16 part changed my mind and got me to give the new one a try; I installed a Vickers Tactical mag release on my Gen3 G17 and it showed me something, it worked better for me, but it being illegal in IDPA meant if I still wanted to compete with what I carry then It'd make me a cheater, and since I wasn't raised that way but noticed the advantages of the better design, small change, big difference, the Gen4 suddenly seemed worth a try.

No more going back and forth between grip-tape, bike tube or standard grip, after shooting the Gen4, a Gen3 feels like a bar of soap in comparison, and while 2mm's seems small, since it makes the tendency to pull shots left almost disappear, it's huge. Many longtime Glock shooters will tell you, if you find your Glock is printing left and you're right-handed it's YOU, not the gun, the nature of their design means you're finishing cocking the gun prior to breaking the shot so less than perfect trigger control means less than centered hits. With the new one you've got a better reach and more solid grip to pull against so it seems to be WAY more tolerant and forgiving of less than stellar trigger control.

Flatter Shooting: IMO the better grip-hold and the greater weight of the new recoil assembly up front works to overcome the negatives of having a spring that's too stiff, it's better, and as the spring gets worn in I'll bet it'll only get better, but I don't think the recoil set-up is what has it shooting flatter over the other things.

First 250rds went through it in a furious 30mins do to the range's closing sticking to shooting F.A.S.T. drills (pistol-training.com ) and a bit of group shooting, second 250rds pretty much the same way... Results were: 50 cent-piece sized groups of 5rds out to 15yrds, all rounds touching or almost there at 7yrds on in, at 25yrds fast groups yielded groups about 4" and smaller (headshots), all done off-hand, F.A.S.T drills were almost all in the sub-6 second neighborhood (which is a very good neighborhood) and had me hitting many more of them cleanly than with my well broken in and comfortable Gen3.

Before I even fired a single round I took all the trigger guts out of my broken-in Gen3 and dropped them into the Gen4 with the exception of the trigger bar which is slightly different, my Gen3 felt right after some polish sessions and thousands of rounds, no use starting to break-in another from the begining when just about all my parts transfer just fine... wanted to give the new one a real chance and guessed right that the smoothed out internals would let me evaluate it with less bias, what I didn't expect was that'd I get a better feeling/breaking trigger but that's what I got, could be the new slightly tweaked trigger bar, could just be luck.

I dunno, I may have a legitimate replacement for my Gen3 G17, the Gen4 has a better grip and better mag release and for some like me, maybe that's enough I guess.

Edited May 23, 2010 by CK1

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Thanks for that great evaluation. I've been thinking about

another G17 or 19. I didn't realize about the pulling to

the left. Does that apply to a left handed shooter, also?

I tend to hit to the left for a bit before correcting.

Going to have to try one now. Thanks

[Guest CK1]

Thanks for that great evaluation. I've been thinking about

another G17 or 19. I didn't realize about the pulling to

the left. Does that apply to a left handed shooter, also?

I tend to hit to the left for a bit before correcting.

Going to have to try one now. Thanks

Pulling to the left is usually common for righty's, opposite (printing to the right) for Lefty's... when people are new to Glocks they usually experience it, a good grip and pulling straight back fixes it but it can be annoying until you get it figured out.

Another small thing I noticed and forgot to mention that I like about the new Gen4 is that it tends to eject magazines like they're spring loaded, this is something I liked about the M&P guns that the Gen3's don't really do, they drop free and easily enough for sure, but, they aren't launched out like they are with the new one, I like it.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't know why but I do much better with my G21 and even the G30, but I've noticed

my pulling to the left with the 17. It's the only 9mm and I've had it since 1986, but haven't shot it that much like the 45's.

Even with the addition of the 1911, I've noticed a big difference in shot placement with

all of them. Sounds like I need more time at the range:D Maybe with a gen4 17, soon.

[Guest CK1]

So, 1000rds down the pipe, 1 stoppage between round 600-650 (stovepipe). The lone stoppage was precarious as it happened on the first round off the top of a mag while I was shooting at 25 yards and while I was working on grip and trigger control and paying full attention, 100% NOT limp-wrist induced... I suspect an underpowered round combined with the new stiffer Gen4 recoil-assembly (which I still think is too stiff) is what caused it... Billy at Jager Products will have an aftrermarket guidrod that'll allow for using single-spring's ala the Gen3's available for the Gen4's next week and I'll be installing one with an ISMI 15lb spring as soon as I can, not because I think the new one is a liability, I just don't know how long it'll take to break it in to where I want it that's all (they're stronger to increase service-life to 10,000rds between replacement, 10,000rds in Glock-speak could mean 100,000 as far as I'm concerned as I never felt I'd worn out an old 3rdGen 17lb stocker even in 10,000rds when armorers were taught to change them between 3k-5k...).

Either way, I don't even think it's worth mentioning it if concerned how it'll run with carry/SD ammo, I've been carrying it and know it'll go bang if needed (freakishly accurate with +P Gold Dots too).

In fact, I have experienced really great sight-tracking with the new assembly, so if I feel I lose that with the Jager/15lb set-up than I'll just go back to it and have just thrown away a few bucks, no big deal. Supposedly it's a rumor that Glock is going to be changing something (I think a - minus strength spring for the Gen 4 9mm's) because of reports of the Gen4 G17's being unreliable, personally, I think it's just plain physics at work, the stiffer spring means it's less tolerant of softer or underpowered loads, so noted, the Gen3's with softer springs are just pigs and not the least bit picky in comparison (no such thing as frame-battering with Glocks so you can go fairly soft and maintain reliability), I'm hoping with the Jager rod and softer spring it'll feel just like my old gun.

I like the new one better but still think the Gen3 guns rule too, I'd tell someone to shoot both and if that 2mm less in grip size shows you something, get the Gen4 without reservation, it's still a Glock, it goes bang.

Worth mentioning: Glock tweaked the trigger-bar geometry slightly in the Gen4's and I think it's noticeable to someone who's familiar with Glock triggers... some guys are reporting slightly heavier triggers out-of-the-box and such, different break. The trigger-break is indeed different, it's cleaner, better and crisper. In my gun with my connector/trigger-spring recipe installed the pull-weight is about a 1/4 to a 1/2lb heavier I'd say than it was with the same parts in my 3rdGen gun, except the crisper break makes up for it in spades, the break is better than any Glock I've felt (including tuned up Vanek's and such), dare I say even 1911-like, while retaining the same old short reset with it's authoritative snap, it has a really good trigger, not just for a Glock either.

I dunno, I may have just gotten lucky with mine, but if this happens in all of them it is a really good thing.

Edited June 2, 2010 by CK1