WTF? at Knoxville Expo Center gunshow

[dlm37015]

reloading supplies i am under the reloading supply sign i give 10% off to tgo members

[dlm37015]

reloading supplies good discounts to all TGO members

[Dolomite_supafly]

They are not real Knoxville police they are rent a cops .I am a vendor at this show if the rent a cop saw my loaded mag he would take it as well .The show at the Zoo has real Knoxville police as the city requires it but at the expo just rent a cop

Thanks for the clarification on the people checking the firearms. After it happened I had called a friend with KCSO and he said they were probably KPD reserve officers. He said they had started using the KPD reserve officers rather than pay the KCSO officers that used t work the show as a side job. My friend had worked the shows numerous times so I didn't question what he had to say about it. I guess I should have paid more attention to their uniforms but at that moment all I was seeing was my ammo going in a cup as well as seeing a bit of red.

Sorry about the KPD confusion, it wasn't meant to be a cop bashing thread and I don't think it was.

I guess in light of this it steps it up even more because someone who has no legal authority, maybe even less than LE, took what was rightfully mine.

A more subtle way to handle the situation would be to go in with a clip full of 9mm - each loaded with about 10 grains of compressed titewad

Doing this would likely harm someone who had absolutely nothing to do with siezing of private property. And honestly the ammo they siezed wouldn't be worth the potential harm it would cause to even the person responsible.

Dolomite

[Guest Bluemax]

The more I think about this, the more I believe these rules are mandated by whomever is putting the show on ( RK Shows maybe ?). A couple of years ago, I was even confronted inside the building at Chilhowee Park because " we had congregated against a wall across from a vendor" and ordered to disperse. This time the reason given to me was that we were hurting the vendors business. Now remember the marketing for this show was " bring a gun to sell or trade" . In reality, I had a used Smith and Wesson 645 for sale for significantly less than the vendor that complained about me. I'm pretty sure this was an RK show as well

[Guest DeadEye]

All i know that no way in Hell would i have allowed any Cop rent or not to keep the ammo under these circumstances but taken it back to car, however if that had happened at Chilhowee they couild have taken you the gun and ammo to Jail!

[dlm37015]

I am not taking sides in this but I do alot of gunshows and none that I go to will allow loaded guns or mags.Thats ok with me cause accidents happen .RK shows are most always safe .I was talking to Rex a few months ago how many ad's he has had in 18 years of gunshows 7 .None have been deadly thats good not all gunshow prometers can say that.i have also noticed that real police are much better at security than rent a cops . The 2 in question today are not very people friendly and I have spoken to Rex about them before. In the intrest of saftey there must be rules .

[kb4ns]

In the intrest of saftey there must be rules .

I agree 100%. But there shouldn't be theft. Especially not by those acting on behalf of the venue.

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

I agree 100%. But there shouldn't be theft. Especially not by those acting on behalf of the venue.

Agreed... A thief is a thief....

[dlm37015]

there is a sign that states you will forfet ammo in your mags i don't like it either but they warn you about 4 times before you have to check your gun

[kb4ns]

And if they stick up a sign saying your forfeit any baseball caps when you enter? Or how about you'll forfeit your children if you walk in with them?

They could put a sign up that says you may b*tch slap random people for fun, but that won't stop you from catching an assault charge.

A sign is a sign. It can be made from paper, plastic, metal, or cheese, but it won't change what is law.

You don't want ammo in there, tell people that they have to take it back to their car or leave for good. Charge them with criminal trespassing if they refuse to go. Sign or no sign, it's theft of property.

[kb4ns]

You don't want ammo in there, tell people that they have to take it back to their car or leave for good. Charge them with criminal trespassing if they refuse to go. Sign or no sign, it's theft of property.

dlm37015, just for clarification, I don't mean YOU, I mean the folks actually running the shows.

[dlm37015]

It is his rented building and the rentor and his security can make rules I don't like it either but according to the laws of Tn thats the way it is .Try to take some beer or food into a Titans game see what happens I don't like it but thats the way it is

[kb4ns]

according to the laws of Tn thats the way it is

I'd be interested to see a law that supports a property owner's right to seize another person's property.

Say I have a sign on my door that says "Weapons will be confiscated". Then, you come to my house to show me your purdy new Dan Wesson. I can just keep your gun and tell you to hit the road? That's not the way it works.

I cannot speak for the way things work at Titans games. Never been there.

[Kenstaroni]

It was the young kid closest to the consession stand who took the ammo and the older officer next to him who said it was and expensive lesson.

I handed him the mag because I didn't expect it. I have shown other officers at previous shows my ammo, my holster as well as some other tactical stuff, all without incident. That is why I didn't think anything of it. It was almost like a HAHA we got another one type aura about it as they smiled at each other.

Dolomite

That's the rookie I mentioned...lol I figured it would be him. That's funny I pointed him out earlier in the thread and didn't even know it was him that took it from you. Yeah I know not all KPD are bad guys, I just had a gut feeling about that one and it turns out I was right.

[Kenstaroni]

You don’t really need to go back and get names unless you want to. If they are KPD Officers and you make a complaint, whoever investigates it will find out who they are. It won’t be any big secret and I can assure you that you won’t have to make their case for them.

I'm going tomorrow for a few minutes in the morning. I'll try my best to get both officers names and badge numbers for you. No promises but I'll try.

[dlm37015]

I see you are a policeman you should know that the TCA allows for some strange things on privite property . Most any venue has strange rules like that and it is suported by TCA .In your city the Liberty bowl is like that any coolers or beer confiscated again I don't like it but thats the way it is in this state

[dlm37015]

The problem at the expo is they use security guards with 40 hours of training.At the Zoo they have to use police officers don't know about Knoville but more training usually means better officers

[kb4ns]

I see you are a policeman you should know that the TCA allows for some strange things on privite property . Most any venue has strange rules like that and it is suported by TCA .In your city the Liberty bowl is like that any coolers or beer confiscated again I don't like it but thats the way it is in this state

Honestly, I'm not a sports person at all and never find myself at any sporting arenas, but I can't see a sports arena not giving you the option of returning the beer / snacks / whatever to your vehicle if you asked.

I have been an LEO for several years, but do not profess to be perfect when it comes to TCA - I learn something dang near every day. That is why I stated that I'd be interested in seeing a TCA that allows it.

As I see it so far, it's still theft. Maybe a theft that is generally tolerated, but theft none the less.

[kb4ns]

The problem at the expo is they use security guards with 40 hours of training.At the Zoo they have to use police officers don't know about Knoville but more training usually means better officers

I'll give you that one for sure. Traning is knowledge. And knowing is half the battle!

[Guest Glock23ForMe]

I'm pretty sure if you tried to sneak some beer into a Titan's game and they found it, they'd be more than happy to walk you out so you could take it to the car.... But who is gonna walk THAT far over a couple of beers? Really? I guarantee you if they find it at the gate and you say "I'll take it to my car," they'll be like, "Okay." No one willing to walk that far twice more, just to keep their six pack of Coors.

[strickj]

I'd be interested to see a law that supports a property owner's right to seize another person's property.

Say I have a sign on my door that says "Weapons will be confiscated". Then, you come to my house to show me your purdy new Dan Wesson. I can just keep your gun and tell you to hit the road? That's not the way it works.

I cannot speak for the way things work at Titans games. Never been there.

Entrance to private property is conditional.

You are not forced to give up anything.

If you come to my house, I can tell you to give me your gun, or ammo, or car, or leave.

That's completely fine.

However, in this case, I think the OP's offer to take the mag and ammo to his car was completely fine.

I see no reason to file a complaint to the cops as they were not on duty.

I would however, file a complaint with the gun show, though.

[kb4ns]

I see no reason to file a complaint to the cops as they were not on duty.

I would however, file a complaint with the gun show, though.

I think someone here established that these weren't LEOs, but private security guards. It's a moot issue for the OP's problem.

However, if it were a situation where an LEO is in department uniform, it doesn't matter if he's on-duty and assigned to an event or if he is authorized to wear his uniform while moonlighting. If he is in uniform, he is acting as an agent of that department.

Most, if not all, departments (mine included) that allow you to moonlight in uniform under certain circumstances make it clear that you are held to the same policies, rules, etc. that you would be if working your regular duty assignment. And a complaint on an officer moonlighting (or just plain off-duty) would be handled the same way it would be if it was from an on-duty event. On-duty or off-duty or anywhere in between doesn't matter.

If my wife thinks I have a girlfriend on the side and notifies my agency, they'll open an "ethics investigation". I've never seen it happen at my agency, but I've heard of Shelby County deputies getting suspended for ethics violations for infidelity. Don't know it for fact, though.

[strickj]

I think someone here established that these weren't LEOs, but private security guards. It's a moot issue for the OP's problem.

However, if it were a situation where an LEO is in department uniform, it doesn't matter if he's on-duty and assigned to an event or if he is authorized to wear his uniform while moonlighting. If he is in uniform, he is acting as an agent of that department.

Most, if not all, departments (mine included) that allow you to moonlight in uniform under certain circumstances make it clear that you are held to the same policies, rules, etc. that you would be if working your regular duty assignment. And a complaint on an officer moonlighting (or just plain off-duty) would be handled the same way it would be if it was from an on-duty event. On-duty or off-duty or anywhere in between doesn't matter.

I see

If my wife thinks I have a girlfriend on the side and notifies my agency, they'll open an "ethics investigation". I've never seen it happen at my agency, but I've heard of Shelby County deputies getting suspended for ethics violations for infidelity. Don't know it for fact, though.

Well, that's ****ed up!

A little strange should be ones own business. I could understand if in uniform or on the job, but outside of work is non of their business.

Just make sure your wife doesn't find out about her and\or him! :up:

[kb4ns]

Well, that's ****ed up!

A little strange should be ones own business. I could understand if in uniform or on the job, but outside of work is non of their business.

You'd think. Infidelity, associating with a known felon, as well as other "ethics" issues can cost you your job.

Just make sure your wife doesn't find out about her and\or him! :up:

Whoa buddy!!!

[strickj]

You'd think. Infidelity, associating with a known felon, as well as other "ethics" issues can cost you your job.

I could understand doing something illegal in private getting you in trouble (not you personally, but figure of speech) but anything else is non of their business and shouldn't affect employment.

Whoa buddy!!!

I keed, I keed!

I only say that cause I don't live where you patrol