shipping hg question

[strickj]

i have a saturady night special rang gun i need to send back for warranty.I called the guy at ja and he told me just to ship it to him.this did not sound right to me,and dont want anybody knocking my door down over this. is there any special things I must do to do this?or do i just stick it in a box and ship it?

now before any "those are horibe" comments i knew about them when i picked it up,but decided to get it just for a fun range gun and i fingered with a lifetime warrany and a hundred bucks i couldnt go wrong.

[Guest canynracer]

You have to declare it at the counter, and it must be shipped to FFL

B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

[Guest Verbal Kint]

As, stated it can only be shipped back to the company or FFL/dealer... and you must, under federal law, disclose the contents to the shipping agency. Also, it must go overnight via courier. UPS and FedEx are the only two shipping couriers that you can use, I believe.

If under warranty, you might want to inquire about an RMA label and them picking up S&H (if only one way)... as the cost is pretty high, when utilizing the overnight shipping. To give you an idea, I just FedEx'd two handguns to an FFL dealer and it ran me $90+ to do it.

[strickj]

also will they be able to ship it directly back to me or will i have to pick it up at a FFL?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

also will they be able to ship it directly back to me or will i have to pick it up at a FFL?

"An individual firearm owner may ship a firearm to a FFL licensed dealer or licensed manufacturer for repairs or customization. The licensed party who does the work may then ship the firearm back to the owner's address when repairs or customization have been completed."

I simply called FedEx up, told the operator that I needed a driver to come by and pick up a package, stated that it was a firearm being shipped and needed to go overnight express. The driver showed up, I presented him with the already packaged box, and re-stated that it was a firearm and that it needed to go overnight to my FFL dealer.

You could always have it returned to an FFL dealer, if you chose to do so, but you would most likely have to pay extra fees for them to receive it and log it into the books.

[catsbackr]

You can also ship it via the U.S. Postal Service. Cheaper.

[Guest canynracer]

You can also ship it via the U.S. Postal Service. Cheaper.

Nope....against the law...

From ATF:

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

[catsbackr]

As a distributor, we ship HUNDREDS of handguns every year through the U.S. Postal Service.

I reread the original question and you are correct regarding shipping and an individual. I stand corrected. Sorry for any misinformation.

[Mike.357]

You mentioned lifetime warranty so I am going with it being a Hi-Point. Nothing wrong with their guns, I have one and it is very reliable.

Since you are shipping it back I assume it does not work. Ship it UPS and mark the box visibly with the words "Machined Parts" It is non-operable so therefore not a viable firearm. The manufacterer will ship it via UPS directly back to you.

How do I know this? I helped a buddy ship his Hi-Point carbine back for warranty work and my description in the previous paragraph was how it was handled. Those were the instruction I was given by the H-P rep when I called them to get return instructions.

PS: the package containing "machined parts" will save you money on shipping vs. it being a gun. If it is broke it is not a gun.

And FWIW the gun was sent and returned repaired in 13 days.

Okay I am slow and I just re-read your post and saw the "JA" thing. I will assume Jiminez works the same as H-P and you can do it as per my instructions.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

PS: the package containing "machined parts" will save you money on shipping vs. it being a gun. If it is broke it is not a gun.

Just because a firearm doesn't work does not mean BATFE doesn't consider it to be a firearm, unless it's properly deactivated.

Not declaring it as a firearm is a crime, albeit a fairly ridiculous one. If your box happened to get lost, stolen, or broken open during transit, the common courier is highly likely to find out that you shipped a handgun. If BATFE becomes involved, which they might, and discover that you shipped a firearm without declaring it as such, you might get a slightly painful slap on the wrist.

That's not to say I don't know 'anyone', ahem, who's done the same thing. But, you really should be aware of the consequences should you decide not to declare the firearm.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Just because a firearm doesn't work does not mean BATFE doesn't consider it to be a firearm, unless it's properly deactivated.

Not declaring it as a firearm is a crime, albeit a fairly ridiculous one. If your box happened to get lost, stolen, or broken open during transit, the common courier is highly likely to find out that you shipped a handgun. If BATFE becomes involved, which they might, and discover that you shipped a firearm without declaring it as such, you might get a slightly painful slap on the wrist.

That's not to say I don't know 'anyone', ahem, who's done the same thing. But, you really should be aware of the consequences should you decide not to declare the firearm.

I agree.

You're not even required to mark the package contents in any way, and I believe it's actually stated NOT to mark the package as a firearm. You simply, by law, have to inform the courier that there is a firearm inside the package. Therefore, why you would even risk breaking the law by labeling it as "machined parts" is pretty stupid, IMO. Labeling it as XYZ versus ABC won't save you any money.

Pack the firearm(s) securely in a plain box (i.e. no description needed)... inform the driver or counter clerk that it is a firearm... insure the contents for it's value... and be done with it.

[Guest gcrookston]

To answer your question: send it back to the mfg via Federal Express or UPS insured. Insure and request receipt and tracking info.

I've shipped 100's of guns... here are the hard and fast rules...

To an inked FFL or mfg USPS: registered mail for long arms only, no handguns. Requires paper and paper tape. Cheapest, but almost not worth the bother. Must go registered mail, insured and return receipt required.

FedX: Long guns or hand guns. Best if you can fit it inside one of their standard boxes (my prefered for shipping handguns). Use a FedX center instead of a U Mail it place like "going postal". Bring a copy of BATF regs with you. Sometimes a new clerk won't understand what you are doing. Some times the manager will state you can't do that. Make them call Memphis for clarification and give them the rules from BATF.

UPS, simply the best. Walk into their shipping center with your gun already packaged, tell them its a gun, buy insurance and ship.

I always include the original inked ffl back to who I'm shipping inside the parcel and have the a copy with weapon's information I give to the clerk when buying insurance.

If it's just parts I'm shipping, then I go USPS an doin't worry about it....

Law states you cannot and common sense dictates you should not mark the package as a gun.

An individual can ship interstate to an inked FFL or MFG. Intrastate, long gun or hand gun (depending upon the state). Ammo must be sent (and declared), UPS ground only --they are the only ones that will take it

[Mike.357]

Frank, not to doubt you or anything but what I posted is theinstructions I was given by Hi-Point to ship the firearm.

To the OP better disregard my post then, I imagine Frank does know.

[strickj]

theinstructions I was given by Hi-Point to ship the firearm

this is the reason for me asking.i dont want some 2bit phone jocky that dont know the differnce between his ars and a hole in the ground at JA telling me the wrong thing and getting my hand spanked.

and shipping it marked was another question because ammo is always marked,but i guess its been anwsered now:up:

[Guest gcrookston]

strick, it isn't that big of a deal, but if it's a warranty issue, send it straight to the mfg, they'll send it right back to you.

ammo is a whole 'nother topic. should only be sent ground and UPS. it falls under hazardous materials DOT regs

[catsbackr]

Ammo is not HazMat.

It is class ORM-D. Other Regulated Materials-Domestic.

[Guest gcrookston]

yep, cat, ya got me on that one. ORM does require ground service. I ship it only UPS, they are the only ones that I know of.

[catsbackr]

yep, cat, ya got me on that one. ORM does require ground service. I ship it only UPS, they are the only ones that I know of.

Actually, and not to be argumentative, ammo can go all UPS Air services, too.

There is a $20 Air Dangerous Goods fee attached, but ammo can go UPS Air.

[Guest gcrookston]

again, you are probably right Cat, but I've tried to live simply. No hand guns USPS, handguns FEDX, ammo UPS ground.

[Guest canynracer]

I work for FedEx...

Declare it to the clerk taking it in... do not mark the package....The manufacturer will send it FedEx back to you.

It is really that simple.

[catsbackr]

I work for FedEx...

Declare it to the clerk taking it in... do not mark the package....The manufacturer will send it FedEx back to you.

It is really that simple.

canynracer,

I noticed that we received several boxes of Keltec's via Fedex Ground. I didn't know you could ship handguns ground. Apparently you can.

[Guest canynracer]

Here are the rules for Express..

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html#firearms

Firearms

A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

- Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

- Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

B. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required Delivery Signature Option or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

C. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

D. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

E. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

F. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

[Guest canynracer]

canynracer,

I noticed that we received several boxes of Keltec's via Fedex Ground. I didn't know you could ship handguns ground. Apparently you can.

Ground DOES ship handguns

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/groundtariff.html#firearms

Firearms

A. FedEx Ground will transport and deliver firearms (excluding handguns) as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

- Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

- Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

B. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required Delivery Signature Option or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release, driver release or indirect delivery.

C. FedEx Ground cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.

D. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Ground is required to notify FedEx Ground that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

E. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

F. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

G. FedEx Ground will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

H. FedEx Ground will not accept for transport handguns, assembled or disassembled

[Guest canynracer]

here are the rules if you use the competition...just remember, if you use them, I dont get gun money LOL, and my children go hungry, and I lose my house, my dog will leave me, and so will my wife...

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http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html

Shipping FirearmsSpecial Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm ShipmentUPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

• Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
  
• UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
  
• UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
  
• Firearms, including handguns, and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally
  
• Ammunition may be accepted for shipment internationally provided it is shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping International Goods.
  
• UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.

Follow These Packing Requirements

• Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
  
• Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
  
• Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.

About Documentation and Labeling

• The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS

• You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
  
• When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
  
• You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns, which are discussed above), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.
  
• See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.

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Sounds to me like too much...you should use FedEx...

[Guest canynracer]

.....doubletap