Snakes - a spinoff thread

[JAB]

I decided to start this thread to avoid further hijacking of a thread regarding open carry in one's yard, etc. This arose from discussions of use of a handgun for self-defense from possible non-human threats. The post I quote from Jamie, here, is from that thread:

Eh, I won't kill 'em unless I'm positive it's a toxic variety.

We have quite a few blacksnakes around here, and I make sure that anybody who's here to work or whatever leaves 'em alone... mostly because the one year we saw none was the year 3 of our dogs got bit by a young copperhead.

So I'm left to conclude that the black ones and the rat snakes keep the copperheads away. How or why, I don't know, but that seems to be what the evidence at hand says.

I will generally leave them alone unless I believe them to be venomous - or unless they are 'destroying property' on our land (state law allows animals to be killed for that reason, too - regardless of season, etc. although 'big game' requires authorization from - I think - the local Ag officer.) We've found non-venomous snakes in the chicken coop, in the nests, gorging on eggs. Those had to 'go'.

I have heard/read that the reason you don't see as many venomous snakes where there are nonvenomous ones has as much to do with food source as anything. Most snakes eat small critters, mice, some frogs, etc. If you have nonvenomous snakes that eat those critters then there isn't as much of a food source to attract venomous ones.

I have asked this in other threads and received no answer, so I am asking again:

Can anyone tell me the specific statute or rule that prohibits killing snakes in TN. Are we sure that such a rule is not simply an urban legend?

I ask because I can find nothing on the subject through Michie's, can find no mention of it on the TWRA website and have only ever seen it on a website that is linked from the TWRA site but apparently has no official connection to TWRA and is not a government or law site. It is a '.org' site that seems to have some connection to the Tennessee Herpetological Society. Not that I would suggest that they would 'fudge' when talking about such things in order to help protect the animals in which their society is interested but it is kind of odd that I haven't seen that anywhere else.

As I have said, before, I'm not going 'hunting' for snakes and seeing them on public land would be a different situation. I would, however, want to keep poisonous snakes away from our yard/house.

Edited May 14, 2010 by JAB

[DavidD]

I'm with you, I have not found anything on the books or at TWRA. I will admit to killing a couple of black snakes in the back yard. We have 3 acres of mowed land and the wife does the mowing so I told her I'd kill any that were there but would not kill any of the ones in the tall grass or in the woods. She is fine with that since she stays out of the woods. Like the old saying goes, if mama ain't happy, nobody's happy.

[Ebow1]

I know of no such rule. I know a Kingsnake is an excellent deterrent to venomous snakes. Kingsnakes are non-venomous, territorial, and they kill other snakes. They don't just deny a food source, they will actively kill other snakes, and because they are territorial you can throw one in your backyard and he'll stay there.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

im scared to death of snakes period,if see one then im in fear of my life, and in this state you can kill anything if your in a resonable fear of your life!!!!

[memphismason]

SNAKES OF TENNESSEE

[Oh Shoot]

Far as I know it's just under this catchall statute:

70-4-102. Illegal taking, possession or destruction of wildlife — Penalty for violations. —

(a) It is unlawful for any person to hunt, kill, trap, ensnare, or destroy, or to attempt to hunt, kill, trap, ensnare, or destroy, or to have in such person's possession, any form of wildlife except subject to the restrictions and by the means and devices and at the time prescribed by this title.

( Any violations of the proclamations and rules and regulations proclaimed by the wildlife resources commission are punishable as provided in this title, and the illegal taking or possession of each bird, animal or fish constitutes a separate offense.

© A violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor.

[Acts 1951, ch. 115, §§ 1, 4 (Williams, §§ 5178.30, 5178.33); Acts 1961, ch. 198, § 2; Acts 1974, ch. 481, § 21; 1982, ch. 738, § 15; T.C.A. (orig. ed.), §§ 51-405, 51-412; Acts 1998, ch. 909, § 1; 2003, ch. 61, § 2.]

------

- OS

[Guest BEARMAN]

As I posted back in an April thread:

____________________________________________________________

Current TN. wildlife law.

Right out of the 2009/2010 TWRA hunting guide, pg.12 states.......

The taking and/or illegal possession of

hawks, owls, songbirds, endangered species

or any other species for which a season is not

set (e.g. snakes) is prohibited.

[Guest pwhphd]

After early flooding in Chattanooga, the branch along my property line became infested with banded watersnakes. Having also encountered copperheads, my neighbors were understandably concerned. When I moved there I systematically eleminated them, killing them off during the spring mating season. I called the TWRA about the infestation and was advised that "it is unlawful to kill a snake in Tennessee;" however, if in a recorded plat residential sub-division that law did not apply. They had indicated to me that the law was not a part of the Tennessee Code, but was authorized under administrative authority of the TWRA. Either way - the snakes are gone and have not been missed!

[Mad_Squirrell]

"In Tennessee, it is illegal to harm, kill, remove from the wild, or possess native snakes taken from the wild without the proper permits."

It seems that "in the wild" or "from the wild" is what the intention of the law is .Not from your yard or in your garden.

Also if I am camping and a snake is in my tent it's a dead snake sorry.Just on the trail I'll leave it alone .

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Far as I know it's just under this catchall statute:

...

(a) It is unlawful for any person to hunt, kill, trap, ensnare, or destroy, or to attempt to hunt, kill, trap, ensnare, or destroy, or to have in such person's possession, any form of wildlife except subject to the restrictions and by the means and devices and at the time prescribed by this title.

...

Hopefully dawgs are not 'persons' in the eyes of the law. My two gentle old suburban coonhounds will kill and eat any small critter they can catch in my back woods, and they don't know nothin about licenses or hunting seasons.

Its not like they catch a critter every day, though its not from trying. They think its their job. The meat doesn't go to waste anyway.

[Ebow1]

I got a buddy who caught a chicken snake one time by the back of its tail. Got himself bit on the hand about 5 times tryin' to be Steve Irwin.

[DaveTN]

im scared to death of snakes period,if see one then im in fear of my life, and in this state you can kill anything if your in a resonable fear of your life!!!!

No, you can kill anything if a “reasonable person†would believe you are in fear of your life. Unloading a 15 round mag and running down the street screaming like a little girl because you saw a snake is not reasonable.

It’s funny the way the mind works and the different things grown men are afraid of.

I’ll handle snakes and let spiders crawl all over me; but if a wasp shows up I will freak TF out. I can’t ignore them and I can’t be around them.

I’m convinced they are the creatures of the devil and I would shoot them if I could. But if I got arrested I doubt a Judge or Jury would think that is reasonable.

[Ebow1]

Scorpions freak me out. I will not touch one of those things in any capacity.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

SNAKES OF TENNESSEE

Thanks for that link Mason, I have been in months long argument with a friend who insists that he has a Coral snake in his yard.

Too bad there isnt a pic of the Corn snake he is seeing but at least I can point him here.

[DaveTN]

Thanks for that link Mason, I have been in months long argument with a friend who insists that he has a Coral snake in his yard.

Too bad there isnt a pic of the Corn snake he is seeing but at least I can point him here.

[Oh Shoot]

Thanks for that link Mason, I have been in months long argument with a friend who insists that he has a Coral snake in his yard.

Too bad there isnt a pic of the Corn snake he is seeing but at least I can point him here.

Scarlet Kingsnake often assumed to be coral snake, too.

There are several milk snakes, sub species of king snake family, and the eastern one which we have here, looks coral snake-esque, also, although it's usually not nearly as bright.

- OS

[Will Carry]

"Red on Yellow...kill a fellow. Red on Black...Johnny comes back." I see few reasons to kill non-poisonous snakes. They are not a threat and they taste terrible. Although I killed all I could find when I was a kid, I leave'em alone now.

[Guest David865]

No, you can kill anything if a “reasonable person†would believe you are in fear of your life. Unloading a 15 round mag and running down the street screaming like a little girl because you saw a snake is not reasonable.

It’s funny the way the mind works and the different things grown men are afraid of.

I’ll handle snakes and let spiders crawl all over me; but if a wasp shows up I will freak TF out. I can’t ignore them and I can’t be around them.

I’m convinced they are the creatures of the devil and I would shoot them if I could. But if I got arrested I doubt a Judge or Jury would think that is reasonable.

+1 on the wasps, can't stand yellow jackets either. Them son's of #%@^%$ come at you from everywhere when your mowing

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Scarlet Kingsnake often assumed to be coral snake, too.

There are several milk snakes, sub species of king snake family, and the eastern one which we have here, looks coral snake-esque, also, although it's usually not nearly as bright.

- OS

Thats it I am sure....he dont want to get close enough to see the bands he just wants to shoot it but I keep telling him there aint no Corals in TN, and that he cant shoot it anway:rolleyes:....Now I have a Pic....

You guys rock.

I have heard folks in FL call those Corn snakes....but I am sure that is what he is seeing as he describes all three colors.

[Mike.357]

i thought coral snakes were more of a Florida swamp critter.

Saw a snake a couple of weeks ago while dragging brush off into the woods. Almost stepped right on it. It was black with yellow striping along the length of its body. It stuck its head up like I have seen Cobras do on TV, I jabbed at it with a stick and it took off towards the field.

Saw a possum with a death grip on a snake once. I approached it and it let go and ran off. Looked like a recently killed copperhead to me.

to add, I just looked at the Snakes of TN link. The black and yellow snake looked exactly like the garter snake they have pictured.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Mike.357

[Oh Shoot]

i thought coral snakes were more of a Florida swamp critter.

General idea of range:

Was walking through woods with some friends in the country out from Birmingham last summer, looking for John Henry's grave on a GeoCache, friend mentions their dogs had killed a coral snake before, I poo pooed the notion, then looked at a couple of maps later. See that spot in the center of 'Bama?

- OS

Edited May 15, 2010 by OhShoot
John HENRY, not John Brown

[Guest BEARMAN]

Saw a snake a couple of weeks ago while dragging brush off into the woods. Almost stepped right on it. It was black with yellow striping along the length of its body.

Sounds like you might have encountered a Garter snake, or possibly a King snake....both are great "mousers" and, the King snake will eat all poisonous snakes too. FWIW.

I'd let 'em walk....eh,...I mean...let 'em crawl LOL!!!

[jtluttrell]

Found a Copperhead while mowing today. He was asked to leave the premises.

[TripleDigitRide]

I saw a small (roughly 4"-6" long and as thick as a pencil) Gartersnake in the gas station parking lot today. It didn't make it. Poor thing.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

i thought coral snakes were more of a Florida swamp critter.

They are Mike, I came home from work one day to see my kids along with several of the neighborhood kids and two adults poking a stick into a bush against a house two houses from mine.

I figured snake as they were grinding up land behind the neighborhood for another one. So I went to investigate myself. I asked one of the adults what was up and he said "Oh we are just trying to run off a Corn snake, Well I took one look at that critter and it was in fact a Coral snake.

I quietly told one adult what it was and to get the kids away, I then returned to my house with my kids to call Animal control (yes youngness there was a time before cell phones). The Cops and the AC folks came and got the thing and took it to who knows where.

It is or was against the law to kill a Coral in FL, I dont know if they are endangered or not but do know it is bad ju ju with LEO and AC if you kill one and get caught.

I am sure glad I got there when I did as no other adult knew the difference and like I said they call them corn snakes there but it looked identical to OS's pic except the order of the bands. Yellow WAS meeting Red......really bad ju ju as I dont think there is a cure for a coral bite or at least wasnt then that I recall and they had that snake all riled up.

Back then it was also illegal to hunt gators, now they have a season and a lottery that will allow you to take two. But I remember even a six footer or so back then was worth around a K note if you knew where to take it and ya even got to keep some of the meat. They were pretty easy to get with a bang stick at night if you knew where to look and had an Airboat.

Not that I know that from personal experience though;)

EDIT: Darn I must type slow and yea I see that spot in the middle of bama.....that isnt real far from here really

Edited May 15, 2010 by Sgt. Joe