The Knoxville "Belle Meade Law"

[Oh Shoot]

While looking up knife laws in Knoxville re a thread in the knife forum, I found this, so cribbing from there. I was actually quite surprised.

Knoxville has the same bizarre statute that Kwik exploited in Belle Meade:

Specific reference:

reference:

ARTICLE IV. - OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC SAFETY

"Any person who shall carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor, dirk, bowie knife or other knife of like form, shape or size, sword cane, icepick, slingshot, blackjack, brass knuckles, Spanish stiletto, or fountain pen pistol or gun, or like instrument containing a firing pin and capable of shooting tear gas or pistol cartridges, or any pistol or revolver of any kind whatever, except an Army or Navy pistol which shall be carried openly in the hand, or any other dangerous weapon, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."

Obviously, this statute is ignored, at least as far as HCP pistol carry.

Anybody want to try the Army/Navy pistol thing?

However, I imagine this was enacted long before the 1986 date, so technically it could be legally binding.

"dirk, bowie knife or other knife of like form, shape or size" could cover damn near anything.

"any other dangerous weapon" of course, would include EVERYthing.

There is also a ban on SELLING most of the above, too. Which of course, is totally ignored, both by local vendors and gun show vendors.

All Knoxville City ordinances at:

Municode - Search

- OS

[Guest DeadEye]

Kwik will have to test it, when he gets his carry permit back!

[Mike.357]

Kwik will have to test it, when he gets his carry permit back!

No, the point was you do not need a carry permit in Knoxville to openly hand carry the Army or Navy pistol.

[Guest DeadEye]

Yes, i know, i simply meant he does not have time for testing it since his hearing was moved to June 3rd from may due to the floods!

[Worriedman]

While looking up knife laws in Knoxville re a thread in the knife forum, I found this, so cribbing from there. I was actually quite surprised.

Knoxville has the same bizarre statute that Kwik exploited in Belle Meade:

Specific reference:

reference:

ARTICLE IV. - OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC SAFETY

"Any person who shall carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor, dirk, bowie knife or other knife of like form, shape or size, sword cane, icepick, slingshot, blackjack, brass knuckles, Spanish stiletto, or fountain pen pistol or gun, or like instrument containing a firing pin and capable of shooting tear gas or pistol cartridges, or any pistol or revolver of any kind whatever, except an Army or Navy pistol which shall be carried openly in the hand, or any other dangerous weapon, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."

Obviously, this statute is ignored, at least as far as HCP pistol carry.

Anybody want to try the Army/Navy pistol thing?

However, I imagine this was enacted long before the 1986 date, so technically it could be legally binding.

"dirk, bowie knife or other knife of like form, shape or size" could cover damn near anything.

"any other dangerous weapon" of course, would include EVERYthing.

There is also a ban on SELLING most of the above, too. Which of course, is totally ignored, both by local vendors and gun show vendors.

All Knoxville City ordinances at:

Municode - Search

- OS

Check most every set of Municipal Codes in the State, and you will find this, normally under Chapter 11.604. It is in every Standard set of codes as offered by the MTAS.

We had it struck from the Jackson City Code this spring. Ours was more heinous, as it contained a 15 day waiting period for any firearms purchase or transfer, a requirement that the Chief Law Enforcement Officer had to give permission for a handgun purchase in Madison County, or a private transfer, along with the requirement of a background check for either.

It normally has been on the books since prior to 1986, so some try to say that State Preemption does not apply.

We had a Council Member that was headed to trying to enforce all this mess. I remember I got trashed pretty hard here for thinking it needed to be headed off. But that is OK, we got it off the books in Madison County.

[Oh Shoot]

Check most every set of Municipal Codes in the State, and you will find this, normally under Chapter 11.604. It is in every Standard set of codes as offered by the MTAS.

We had it struck from the Jackson City Code this spring. Ours was more heinous, as it contained a 15 day waiting period for any firearms purchase or transfer, a requirement that the Chief Law Enforcement Officer had to give permission for a handgun purchase in Madison County, or a private transfer, along with the requirement of a background check for either.

It normally has been on the books since prior to 1986, so some try to say that State Preemption does not apply.

We had a Council Member that was headed to trying to enforce all this mess. I remember I got trashed pretty hard here for thinking it needed to be headed off. But that is OK, we got it off the books in Madison County.

Yeah, I remember your saga re this over there.

Just never had looked at our city code for it before.

- OS

[Guest Letereat!]

Ill Be Damed. So technically its cool if I stroll around brandishing my 1911 .45 military issue sidearm. Sweeeeeet!!! Ill pass thank you.....lemmie know how that works out if anyone else decides to give it the old college try, LMAO!!

[Guest 270win]

Memphis and Collierville have similar city ordinances. They must be modeled after the old state law.

Some cities in Arkansas have not revised their old ordinances either....Arkansas state law gave an exception to the army/navy pistol carried openly in the hand up until the late 1970's...in addition to the 'journey'..which that part is still state law.

[Mike.357]

Ill Be Damed. So technically its cool if I stroll around brandishing my 1911 .45 military issue sidearm. Sweeeeeet!!! Ill pass thank you.....lemmie know how that works out if anyone else decides to give it the old college try, LMAO!!

I am sure you are joking but the 1911 would not be considered an army or navy pistol.

[DavidD]

Ill Be Damed. So technically its cool if I stroll around brandishing my 1911 .45 military issue sidearm. Sweeeeeet!!! Ill pass thank you.....lemmie know how that works out if anyone else decides to give it the old college try, LMAO!!

I am sure you are joking but the 1911 would not be considered an army or navy pistol.

Yeah, only if your 1911 has been modified to look something like this:

[Guest 270win]

Arkansas case law in the late 1800's considered the centerfire Remington/Colt Army handgun to be in compliance with the weapon type that could be carried openly in the hand. I believe there was a short time in Arkansas that cheap pistols could not be sold either. The Remingtons, Colts, and S&W's were exempt.

Hathcote v. State.

Davis v. State. Davis V. State

Dabbs v. The State. Dabbs V State

Smith, J. Dabbs was indicted for selling a pocket pistol, pleaded guilty, was fined and moved in arrest of judgment. His appeal questions the constitutionality of the third section of the act of April 1, 1881. The purpose of that act, as expressed in its title, was "to preserve the public peace and prevent crime." The third section makes it a misdemeanor for any person to sell a dirk or bowie-knife, a sword or spear in a cane, brass or metal knucks, or any pistol except such as are used in the army and navy of the United States, and known as the navy pistol.

[Mike.357]

Arkansas case law in the late 1800's considered the centerfire Remington/Colt Army handgun to be in compliance with the weapon type that could be carried openly in the hand.

conversions? or originally made as a cartridge pistol?

[Garufa]

I know alot of Reminton 1858's were converted for cartridge use, loading gate installed & all. Don't know about Colt's.

[Guest 270win]

Arkansas law considered it the handgun in use by the army or navy...whatever that may have been....case law in the late 1800's was usually the old Colt...of course the reading just says the gun was loaded. The Colt Peacemaker was used by the Army and would have been legal to carry in Arkansas from my reading. One case showed a guy near Petit Jean with a Remington handgun and a loaded Colt handgun in his saddle bags that appeared to be legal...it was about 1875 violation...appeal 1880 roughly.

Arkansas kind of went through phases...for a few years from 1875 onward it was legal to carry a holstered army/navy gun..while carrying any other handgun was illegal...except on a journey or at your property/premises..then about 1880 the state required that the army/navy gun be carried openly in the hand.

The late 1800's I know was kind of a transition from cap and ball to cartridge. If it was a large 'Army' gun..or in use by the Army or Navy...that is what the state wanted folks to carry openly. Arkansas wanted small handguns made illegal...and made no mention whether they be cap and ball or cartridge in that time period.

Edited May 14, 2010 by 270win

[Mike.357]

I know alot of Reminton 1858's were converted for cartridge use, loading gate installed & all. Don't know about Colt's.

great, so I wasted cash on a freaking permit and a box of holsters when all I had to do was walk around with my 1858 converted Remmy in hand.