Screwed Up Justice System

[Fallguy]

We had a local lady who was charged with over 30 counts of theft/fraud when she would steal gift cards and load them with $500 each. She totalled a little over $60K in what she had stolen over a 6 month period. She plead guilty to it and promised to make restitution even though she said she was unable to work because of a mental condition. Her sentence was 3 years unsupervised probation and as of yet she still hasn't went to work.

The problem is the restitution is generally paid by the courts to the victim them the courts go after the criminal. I have seen it done this way numerous times. If this happened in this case then we, as tax payers, foot the bill for her thefts and she gets to keep the money unless she goes back to work.

It also passes along a message to others who have nothing to loose, if you steal and plead guilty nothing will happen to you.

Yes, the justice system needs a revamp along with 90% of the laws on the books.

Dolomite

WHAT?!?!?! I would like to hear more about those cases! I had my handgun stolen 8-9 years ago. The boys (two juveniles) were caught, plead guilty and ordered to pay restitution. I have yet to see a dime and in my hear know I never will. One moved out of the jurisdiction of the court and they didn't get any information from him about where he was going. I have contacted the juvenile court clerk and the thughs PO several times and either got the run around, left messages with no return or basically told tough titty on the few times I did speak to someone. So if there is a way to make the court system pay me and they go after the thugs...I'd be all for it.

On being notified by the courts on changes to your case...unfortunately you are right. Title 40, Chapter 38 of the TCA has a whole list of victim's rights. Of which 40-38-111 is to be notified of changes...but they are just rights and not requirements. In fact 40-38-108 even provides immunity to the state and all, for failure to comply....so just another feel good thing.

[Dolomite_supafly]

What a truth brother!! I heartily agree. Justice is hardly ever served in the courts today. Look at the Christian-Newsome verdicts.

Keep up the good work.

Kind regards,

Leroy

Personally, I believe that by serving life in prison they have to endure a lot more punishment than just a needle prick then falling asleep. They will spend the rest of their lives living every day in fear as well as being subjected to things most people couldn't fathom. In my eyes it is a more appropriate punishment than just being humanly put to death. By spending the next 40+ years in prison it punishes the criminals as well as their families who I feel are partly responsible for not raising their children to do the right thing.

I understand that putting the criminals to death is what the victim's family needs to feel closure but in most cases life without the possibility of parole is more punishing than the death penalty.

I am not against the death penalty but I believe the way it is done is too humane for some of the animals we have out there. Kill the criminal in a similar way as their victims and I am all for it. Those who are responsible for the Christian-Newsome murders should be killed exactly how they killed those kids. The same ways and on the same time line, making it take as long to die as it took those kids to die. And while the sentence is being carried out make those who raised the criminals watch so they too can feel the pain of loosing a loved one in such a horrible way.

Another thing I personally believe is that while a criminal is in jail they should loose the rights a law abiding citizen has. While incarcerated they already loose most of their rights. Why not take their right to a be free from cruel and unusual punishment in cases where a life was taken and make them really suffer for what they have done.

Dolomite

[leroy]

Dolomite:__________

[quote...I am not against the death penalty but I believe the way it is done is too humane for some of the animals we have out there. Kill the criminal in a similar way as their victims and I am all for it. Those who are responsible for the Christian-Newsome murders should be killed exactly how they killed those kids. The same ways and on the same time line, making it take as long to die as it took those kids to die. And while the sentence is being carried out make those who raised the criminals watch so they too can feel the pain of loosing a loved one in such a horrible way.

...]

I fully agree. Our system of "justice' simply is not equipped to handle the type of crime that is discussed here. Our system simply puts criminals in "time out". We should be in the business of taking the worst of the worst from "time out" to "out of this world" in a manner consistent with the heinous nature of the crimes perpetrated by these monsters. Sadly, the 'cruel and unusual punishment' line is used all too well by the disgraceful among us who twist the intent of the law to save the unworthy.

I have also come to the opinion that in no case should a crime be tried by a jury from another jurisdiction, no matter what the reasons. The further the community is from the crime, the more likely for the criminals to beat the rap.

Food for thought,

Leroy

[E4 No More]

Ok, so who do you all propose to punish those befitting of their crimes? Most people who can actually do that are the criminals.

[leroy]

Ok, so who do you all propose to punish those befitting of their crimes? Most people who can actually do that are the criminals.

Who do you think should do it? We used to have public executions carried out by officers of the jurisdictions that had the trial. I believe that if it were no more than about 90 days between sentencing and carrying out of a capital sentence; there would be a lot fewer capital sentences that needed to be handed out, and crimes would be curbed. I could (...and i believe many others would agree...) care less how barbaric, heinous, and painful the carrying out of the death sentence is. Since our societies’ elites have deemed that all mankind is good and can be rehabilitated; we have decided to put them all in time out or just to threaten them with the death penalty after about thirty years of appeals and delays.

One of the reasons that our society is so far into the toilet is that we have no objective set of moral and ethical convictions. Everything is relative. Everything has qualifiers and mitigating circumstances. Kids had bad parents, they weren’t breast fed as babies, white people were mean to them, and black people were mean to them --- on and on and on --- all idiotic drivel.

We have reduced the process of "justice" to a grotesque comedy pretending to pass out justice. All the while making excuses for and deferring to the rights of the excrement that seems only too happy to continue doing whatever unspeakable act they care to commit. Many of them full well know that all they need is a ratty defense attorney who can be bought with money and a bunch of pop culture trash to sit on the jury. All they need is one juror to bail them out.

At this juncture in history, the American system of justice is a grotesque comedy. The real losers are the citizens who are exposed to it.

Thus endeth the lesson.

Leroy

[E4 No More]

Personally, I believe that by serving life in prison they have to endure a lot more punishment than just a needle prick then falling asleep. They will spend the rest of their lives living every day in fear as well as being subjected to things most people couldn't fathom. In my eyes it is a more appropriate punishment than just being humanly put to death. By spending the next 40+ years in prison it punishes the criminals as well as their families who I feel are partly responsible for not raising their children to do the right thing.

I understand that putting the criminals to death is what the victim's family needs to feel closure but in most cases life without the possibility of parole is more punishing than the death penalty.

I am not against the death penalty but I believe the way it is done is too humane for some of the animals we have out there. Kill the criminal in a similar way as their victims and I am all for it. Those who are responsible for the Christian-Newsome murders should be killed exactly how they killed those kids. The same ways and on the same time line, making it take as long to die as it took those kids to die. And while the sentence is being carried out make those who raised the criminals watch so they too can feel the pain of loosing a loved one in such a horrible way.

Another thing I personally believe is that while a criminal is in jail they should loose the rights a law abiding citizen has. While incarcerated they already loose most of their rights. Why not take their right to a be free from cruel and unusual punishment in cases where a life was taken and make them really suffer for what they have done.

Dolomite

So the taxpayer should house, feed, clothe, and supply all medical care for the rest of their lives so that they are properly punished?

[E4 No More]

You stated, "Kill the criminal in a similar way as their victims and I am all for it" and I asked you who you are going to get to do it. You reply with,

"Who do you think should do it? We used to have public executions carried out by officers of the jurisdictions that had the trial."

Humm, one is not like the other! When did we EVER torture and mutilate someone in an execution?

"One of the reasons that our society is so far into the toilet is that we have no objective set of moral and ethical convictions." How moral and ethical would our society employed law enforcement officer who were capable of executing someone in a similar fashion as the accused?

BTW Mr. 90-days: Do you realize how many innocent people were on death row or suffering life sentences until they were able to prove their innocence with DNA? How about all the incidents of prosecutorial misconduct?

Then you end your warped logic with, "Thus endeth the lesson" like you are condescending to a lower level? Wow!

[kb4ns]

The real losers are the citizens who are exposed to it.

Well said!

[Guest WestTN_reb]

I would settle for 10 minutes alone with the guy in an interrogation room with the recording devices turned off.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So the taxpayer should house, feed, clothe, and supply all medical care for the rest of their lives so that they are properly punished?

I am just saying spending the rest of their nature life in prison is more punishing than a quick prick in the arm. I wasn't getting into the costs, just the justice of it all. Spending the next 40 years in prison is far harsher than being humanely executed. If we are talking costs alone then yes kill them if that is the cheaper route but according to most resources is costs more to try and convict someone in a death penalty case versus a life in prison case.

If we are talking about actually punishing them then lets do something other than a needle stick in the arm and life in prison seems like it would be more punishing.

Tennessee

Study Finds Death penalty Costly, Ineffective

A new report released by the Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury recommended changes to the state's costly death penalty and called into question its effectiveness in preventing crime. The Office of Research noted that it lacked sufficient data to accurately account for the total cost of capital trials, stating that because cost and time records were not maintained, the Office of Research was unable to determine the total, comprehensive cost of the death penalty in Tennessee." Although noting that, "no reliable data exists concerning the cost of prosecution or defense of first-degree murder cases in Tennessee," the report concluded that capital murder trials are longer and more expensive at every step compared to other murder trials. In fact, the available data indicated that in capital trials, taxpayers pay half again as much as murder cases in which prosecutors seek prison terms rather than the death penalty. Findings in the report include the following:

Death penalty trials cost an average of

48%

more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.

Tennessee District Attorneys General are not consistent in their pursuit of the death penalty.

Surveys and interviews of district attorneys indicate that some prosecutors "use the death penalty as a 'bargaining chip' to secure plea bargains for lesser sentences."

Previous research provides no clear indication whether the death penalty acts as a method of crime prevention.

The Tennessee Court of Criminal Appeals reversed 29 percent of capital cases on direct appeal.

Although any traumatic trial may cause stress and pain for jurors, the victims' family, and the defendant's family, the pressure may be at its peak during death penalty trials. (July 2004)

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

Death penalty cases cost more than life in prison cases both during the trial as well as after sentencing. There is a lot more additional costs that go into convicting and housing a death row inmate than one that is tried and sentenced to life in prison. In fact it probably costs more to house death row inmates because of the seperate special facilities they house them in. And when you consider that most death row inmates are housed for decades before being executed the additional cost of prosecution isn't, in my eyes, worth it. Why not just save us all some money and try them seeking life in prison rather than death.

Here is some decent reading on the subject from numerous sources all citing the same thing, death penalty cases cose more over the long run the life in prison.

Does the death penalty cost less than life in prison without parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org

Dolomite

[leroy]

SW:____________

Before you paint with the "big paint brush" and pass judgment on "warped logic" and become enraged with "condescending pronouncements", you need to calm down, take a baby aspirin, and re-adjust your glasses. Now that you've done that, first things first:

• First of all, I never said that

  You stated, "Kill the criminal in a similar way as their victims and I am all for it"

  I did agree with it. The fact is that I don’t really care how they do it. The truth of the matter is that someone should do it and do it in a timely manner. The fact is that our society (...here in Tennessee, at least...) has evidently decided on lethal injection or "ole sparky". I could care less which one they use; as long as they use it. That's the point of my little rant.
  
• You may not have thought about this much; but I firmly believe that "the law" ought to work both ways. It should bring sure judgment to the guilty and some sense of justice for those lying in the grave or left on the earth that are affected by the crime. The fact that that the law is seemingly powerless and too weak to do this very job is one of the chief reasons why these monsters are murdering others with impunity. Your line of logic allows for all the niceties of the "presumption of innocence" for those who are clearly guilty with none of the "justice for those who have been wronged". I don’t like that idea. It, in itself, is a perversion of justice.
  
• I like the 90 day idea and we ought to employ it. You seem to favor the "endless appeal route". Those are differences in opinions. The fact is that there will always be innocent folks in jail on death row because the law is not perfect (...and never will be...). You are worried about the rights of the accused; I’m worried about the rights of the murdered and maimed. I believe if there was more swift, sure punishment meted out by our justice system; there would be a lot less need to mete that justice out in the first place.
  
• Re: Me being condescending. It is a character flaw. I'm most always that way when I’m having a conversation with folks that should be old enough to know better. I fully confess to it.
  

Hope this little speech makes you feel better. Now I’ll lay back down, take a baby aspirin and have a little nap. I urge you to do the same and don’t be so easily roused to indignation. After all, this is a forum of like minded friends discussing issues. Not a place for gladiators to battle.

Kind regards,

Leroy

Edited May 18, 2010 by leroy
punctuation!!

[E4 No More]

SW:____________

Before you paint with the "big paint brush" and pass judgment on "warped logic" and become enraged with "condescending pronouncements", you need to calm down, take a baby aspirin, and re-adjust your glasses. Now that you've done that, first things first:

• First of all, I never said that I did agree with it. The fact is that I don’t really care how they do it. The truth of the matter is that someone should do it and do it in a timely manner. The fact is that our society (...here in Tennessee, at least...) has evidently decided on lethal injection or "ole sparky". I could care less which one they use; as long as they use it. That's the point of my little rant.
  
• You may not have thought about this much; but I firmly believe that "the law" ought to work both ways. It should bring sure judgment to the guilty and some sense of justice for those lying in the grave or left on the earth that are affected by the crime. The fact that that the law is seemingly powerless and too weak to do this very job is one of the chief reasons why these monsters are murdering others with impunity. Your line of logic allows for all the niceties of the "presumption of innocence" for those who are clearly guilty with none of the "justice for those who have been wronged". I don’t like that idea. It, in itself, is a perversion of justice.
  
• I like the 90 day idea and we ought to employ it. You seem to favor the "endless appeal route". Those are differences in opinions. The fact is that there will always be innocent folks in jail on death row because the law is not perfect (...and never will be...). You are worried about the rights of the accused; I’m worried about the rights of the murdered and maimed. I believe if there was more swift, sure punishment meted out by our justice system; there would be a lot less need to mete that justice out in the first place.
  
• Re: Me being condescending. It is a character flaw. I'm most always that way when I’m having a conversation with folks that should be old enough to know better. I fully confess to it.
  

Hope this little speech makes you feel better. Now I’ll lay back down, take a baby aspirin and have a little nap. I urge you to do the same and don’t be so easily roused to indignation. After all, this is a forum of like minded friends discussing issues. Not a place for gladiators to battle.

Kind regards,

Leroy

Take your condescention elsewhere Leroy, I'm not buying it.

Edited May 18, 2010 by SWJewellTN

[leroy]

Take you condescention elsewhere Leroy, I'm not buying it.

Sorry to hear it. Dont read the posts or start the spitting contest if you dont expect to get a rebuttal. You started this little dust up, i didnt. You shouldnt expect not to be answered when you presume to lecture others.

Leroy

Edited May 18, 2010 by leroy

[E4 No More]

Sorry to hear it. Dont read the posts or start the spitting contest if you dont expect to get a rebuttal. You started this little dust up, i didnt. You shouldnt expect not to be answered when you presume to lecture others.

Leroy

[Guest WestTN_reb]

I sure didn't mean for this thread to spiral off into a Death Penalty vs. Life Imprisonment battle. I was mainly wanting to vent and hopefully get some advice about how to see this thing finished.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I sure didn't mean for this thread to spiral off into a Death Penalty vs. Life Imprisonment battle. I was mainly wanting to vent and hopefully get some advice about how to see this thing finished.

Sorry if I contributed to your thread getting off track.

Dolomtie

[leroy]

Dolomite and Reb:__________

Don’t worry guys. Discussion is a great thing. Many are tired of seeing the failings of a justice system that is either too weak or too corrupt to deliver justice that is "justice for the wronged". I fully agree with your frustrations. Remember, the truth is always the truth; that fact, in itself, offends lots of folks. Many prefer a fantasy land of good intentions.

Keep up the good work.

Kind regards,

Leroy

[Guest WestTN_reb]

UPDATE: I found out the SOB is back in jail for the moment. Does anyone have any advice on a way I can ensure the circuit court keeps him there until his trial. This farce has gone on nearly two years now, and I just want it to be over.

[Chief07]

News flash: We have a legal system; not a justice system.

Absoutly. "Empathy" not law. No wonder we have so many problems. Sometimes a good country A** whipen would

work wonders.

[bubbiesdad]

I am just saying spending the rest of their nature life in prison is more punishing than a quick prick in the arm. I wasn't getting into the costs, just the justice of it all. Spending the next 40 years in prison is far harsher than being humanely executed. If we are talking costs alone then yes kill them if that is the cheaper route but according to most resources is costs more to try and convict someone in a death penalty case versus a life in prison case.

If we are talking about actually punishing them then lets do something other than a needle stick in the arm and life in prison seems like it would be more punishing.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

Death penalty cases cost more than life in prison cases both during the trial as well as after sentencing. There is a lot more additional costs that go into convicting and housing a death row inmate than one that is tried and sentenced to life in prison. In fact it probably costs more to house death row inmates because of the seperate special facilities they house them in. And when you consider that most death row inmates are housed for decades before being executed the additional cost of prosecution isn't, in my eyes, worth it. Why not just save us all some money and try them seeking life in prison rather than death.

Here is some decent reading on the subject from numerous sources all citing the same thing, death penalty cases cose more over the long run the life in prison.

Does the death penalty cost less than life in prison without parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org

Dolomite

A quick prick in the arm? What's so quick about someone spending for 23 years on death row?