Floods, contractors, and an HCP

[monkeylizard]

My HCP could not have arrived at a better time. 2 or 3 days after the house flooded. I've decided that I have waaaay too many strangers coming into my house for quotes and too many people working on neighbors' homes (and mine soon). So I decided this morning to start open carrying the XD*. I'll use this thread as a running commnetary on the reactions I get, if any, when contractors/repairmen come to the house. Let's see if it gets interesting.

So far, I've had a roofing guy come out. Unrelated to the flood. I just need a new roof. One of his first questions was if we've had a problem with looters. Nobody prior to my OC asked that question. I just said "No. Metro's had a pretty good presence. And I want any would be looters to know they need to find another occupation."

*Yes, I know I don't need an HCP for carrying in my own home. But I'm not sure if that applies to the yard too. And it really reduces any potential hassle factor.

[Kelemvor]

Sounds fine to me. If I had a shoulder holster, I'd OC when at home. If someone is uncomfortable with you carrying, they can f'n leave. The only thing to be concerned about would be tipping people off to the fact that you have guns.

I saw a gas station clerk OCing last night here in Nashville. I guess they get some unsavory characters in there.

[monkeylizard]

Yeah, I thought about the "tipping off", but in this case, I'd rather that be a well known fact and be a deterent.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

yea, ya might as well put a sign in your yard that says i have guns in the house, that said we were working in Bellevue all last week giving out fans with some guys with the Nashville Fire Dept... and we saw several signs that said "We shoot looters"... so I wouldnt worry about it too much. I think your in one of the few positions where I see open carry as being acceptable.

[monkeylizard]

I like that. I should make one and put it up at the entrance to the neighborhood.

[Erik88]

I have open carried a few times if I'm going to or from the range and only had positive experiences. Glad to see you are exercising your right to open carry at the house!!

[GLOCKMEISTER]

btw... with all the MPD presence I dont think you guys are going to have an issue any times soon. Now in 6 months when everyone has all new stuff in their houses.. well that might be diffenent.

[monkeylizard]

hmm....maybe I can sneak a new 12 ga. shotty in between the hardwood and the drywall invoices. Maybe my wife won't notice....

[Magiccarpetrides]

hmm....maybe I can sneak a new 12 ga. shotty in between the hardwood and the drywall invoices. Maybe my wife won't notice....

Lol...I thought that said between the hardwood and drywall...and I was thinking thats a damn good idea But yes...you should definitely have a shotgun...at any given time I typically own at least 3 lol....i have a SMG and the AOW 870 is still my "go to HD gun".

[daddyo]

I would love to open carry on my property, and I often do inside the house. But I have neighbors who would call the police and say I was brandishing and threatening them, so it's best for me not to when I'm outside.

Monkeylizard, so sorry your house flooded. I hope that things are back to normal for you as soon as is possible.

[KOM2]

I don't see a problem with the OC at all. I do know from a meeting with Metro PD last week that they have roughly 660 officers on the streets since Thursday. They canceled all days off, vacation, etc. The Sgt. said typically you would have 150 officers on the streets at any given time besides overlap from shifts. They pulled all SRO's and flex units as well. He basically said they will do anything they can to stop looting, etc.

[Guest Jamie]

Never minding the stray people wandering around, do keep in mind that flood waters also wash up all sorts of strange critters that it might be handy to have a gun to deal with.

I've hear more than one report now of people discovering rattle snakes, copperheads, water moccasins, etc. in or around their rubbish piles.

Now, I'm not afraid of snakes, but I don't particularly enjoy going hand-to-hand with the poisonous variety... especially when I have other things to do or may not be expecting to see 'em.

Anyway, having a gun handy while everything is still a mess is not a bad plan, since there's no telling what may turn up that requires a bullet or three to resolve the encounter.

J.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

man i hate snakes and even though i'd be scared to death of one i dont think that my reasonable level of fear would rise to the point where id start capping off rounds in a crowded neighborhood... especially with 10-20 metro officers within a 1/4 mile...there are so many people out there working, doing relief, and contracting... well the chances greatly increase that you may hit someone. If you dont... it would be almost an automatic case for arrest for Felony Reckless Endangerment. Get a hoe or shovel to take care o Mr. No Shoulders and leave the center-fire handgun for the two legged critters.

[Guest Jamie]

man i hate snakes and even though i'd be scared to death of one i dont think that my reasonable level of fear would rise to the point where id start capping off rounds in a crowded neighborhood... especially with 10-20 metro officers within a 1/4 mile...there are so many people out there working, doing relief, and contracting... well the chances greatly increase that you may hit someone. If you dont... it would be almost an automatic case for arrest for Felony Reckless Endangerment. Get a hoe or shovel to take care o Mr. No Shoulders and leave the center-fire handgun for the two legged critters.

Funny, but I know a couple of Metro cops that would set new quick-draw records if they happened to look down and see a snake - any snake - within their near-vicinity.

As for Felony Reckless Endangerment... that's kind'a gonna depend on where you're shooting. ( You would probably be shooting into the ground, after all, or at worst, into a trash pile. ) Also, given that it would be a defensive shooting ( it had better be, otherwise it's illegal to kill the snake in the first place ), I doubt the police would automatically be ready to "cuff and stuff" you.

One way or the other, I wouldn't be inclined to go hunting for a hoe or shovel and give the snake a chance to get away, only to bite someone else later who happened to blunder into it.

I also wouldn't want it turning up in my house later, after I'd gotten things closed back up.

Also, as I mentioned, snakes aren't the only potential problem. And don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to deal with a rabid, or even pissed-off, skunk or raccoon with nothing but a hoe.

Oh, and maybe during all this flood clean-up would be the perfect time for that first round under the hammer to be a "snake shot" load that some people like to carry.

J.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Jamie

[JAB]

...and we saw several signs that said "We shoot looters"...

Being that it is against the law to use deadly force to protect property I wonder, in the event that the homeowner ended up having to shoot someone, if such a sign could be used to show intent.

One way or the other, I wouldn't be inclined to go hunting for a hoe or shovel and give the snake a chance to get away, only to bite someone else later who happened to blunder into it.

It would seem perfectly reasonable to have a nice, long machete, etc. in a sheath on one's person while working on one's own property, especially since there is clean-up, etc. going on. I'd rather use a hoe than a machete because of the extra reach but the machete you have with you is better than the hoe in the tool shed. That might provide an alternative in situations where shooting a snake wasn't entirely feasible.

[Guest Drewsett]

I think your in one of the few positions where I see open carry as being acceptable.

Shall not be infringed?

I don't have the HCP yet, but once I do, I will most likely prefer to carry concealed because I don't want to have to deal with people freaking out or dealing with this attitude from LEO's.That said, I DO believe that people should be able to OC anywhere they can carry without issue. I also think there are alot of places carry should be allowed and currently is not...but that's for another thread.

Oh, and I'm not trying to LE-bash or anything like that, I've been into your shop a few times and met you and like you Philip!

I just hate that in our society that man with a gun=bad guy. How did that get so deeply set in the American psyche? No one thought a thing of it when people OC'ed in the "Wild" West, and frankly I would prefer to see that someone has a gun right away than have to look for and try to identify funny bulges around his or her anatomy.

OP, I considered meeting the FEMA inspector at the door with a handgun on my hip for farts and giggles, but decided I didn't want to make him nervous and somehow negatively affect my inspection. I am going to be following this thread pretty closely...I'm sure you'll have at least one person visibly flinch and double-take, possibly even some stammerers.

[Guest Jamie]

It would seem perfectly reasonable to have a nice, long machete, etc. in a sheath on one's person while working on one's own property, especially since there is clean-up, etc. going on.

Do you have any idea how much that's likely gonna get in the way, as you're bending over and picking stuff up, walking in and out of doorways, around and over obstacles, etc?

I have a machete with a 24" or 30" blade, hanging up out on the breezeway, that's right handy for clearing brush and such. It came with a canvas belt sheath... which was quickly discarded due to being of no use what so ever.

It didn't take me long to figure out that if I were going to carry that long-bladed thing around, the only real convenient way of doing it was in my hand, since it got tangled up in anything that came along, pretty easily. Including my own legs.

Anyway, y'all deal with the troublesome people and critters as you see fit, and with whatever tool does the job best for your particular situation.

J.

[Guest rsgillmd]

I would love to open carry on my property, and I often do inside the house. But I have neighbors who would call the police and say I was brandishing and threatening them, so it's best for me not to when I'm outside.

Monkeylizard, so sorry your house flooded. I hope that things are back to normal for you as soon as is possible.

According to http://www.tn.gov/attorneygeneral/op/2005/op/op154.pdf, which is a PDF of an attorney general opinion and found on TN DOS hangun permits FAQ section, it is not illegal to carry open.

However it would be too much of a hassle for the reason you cited above -- neighbors freaking out.

From a practical perspective carrying concealed seems to be better when outside the home. Besides avoiding creating a spectacle, this way if you are in a situation such as a robbery, the robber doesn't decide to shoot you first before completing his task. I also think concealed carry is probably a greater deterrent for the general criminal public because they don't know when they will encounter someone who is armed.

[Fivestring63]

<<*Yes, I know I don't need an HCP for carrying in my own home. But I'm not sure if that applies to the yard too. And it really reduces any potential hassle factor.>>

You sound as if you don't know if you can carry in your yard. You can even without an HCP. Open or concealed.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Um. I believe some here need to double check the law, as I will be. IMHO there is some reading to do...

IMHO, it is legal to carry in your yard, without a permit, as long as you stay on your property. Having a permit enables protection off your property.

IMHO, protection of house and property may fall under the Castle Doctrine, which, if I am remembering things correctly, would be allowed under TN law.

My suggestion: Get advise from a Bar Licensed Attorney...if there is a big concern.

You guys are not fully thinking about the Critter issue. In this case there will probably be a spike in Rabies, crossing of paths with poisonous snakes, various wild animals, including aggressive dogs (former pets) and coyote.

Considering my neighborhood is not flooded, but coyote have been sited within a half mile from the house, I carry every time I am in the yard, and especially dealing with the garbage...

SIDE NOTE: Make sure you are dealing with Legitimate Contractors. Ask for their License, Proof of Insurance, and Proof they are NOT using illegals. Make sure the jobs created by this mess go to those here legally...

Edited May 11, 2010 by HvyMtl

[GLOCKMEISTER]

im useing the shovel, at least you can throw it like a spear and have a chance at cutting it into

[Fivestring63]

I see it as this way. Say someone is stealing your lawnmower in your yard. You can't use deadly force to protect property. But, you can use non-lethal force to protect property. When they threaten you back with lethal force, then it's ok to use lethal force. IMHO

[Guest 270win]

I like a shotgun loaded with birdshot for snakes. The snakes have got to be everywhere with all this flooding. I cannot stand snakes. Light 7 1/2 or 8 shot will usually kill a snake with one shot VS more than one shot with a handgun or 22 rifle. A taurus judge would make a great snake gun loaded with 410 birdshot shells......also if you've got a revolver (reliability) get you some snakeshot rounds.

You can carry anywhere on your property without a permit...whatever kind of gun you want. You are not limited to being inside your house. I'd have a good shotgun outside in case I run into a snake and you can safely shoot without endangering anyone...or some snakeshot in a handgun.

[Fallguy]

I see it as this way. Say someone is stealing your lawnmower in your yard. You can't use deadly force to protect property. But, you can use non-lethal force to protect property. When they threaten you back with lethal force, then it's ok to use lethal force. IMHO

That is about the size of it.

...and I'd say 99% of us on TGO would see you being armed as being prepared.

But.....some others may see the act of making it known you are armed OC, Shotgun in the hand etc... as provocation and that it was the BG that was first in fear.

Now I wouldn't see that way...and I hope that at least 1 out of 12 in TN wouldn't see it that way either, but that is the reason some say you shouldn't even confront robbers/burglars/thieves while armed.

[JAB]

Do you have any idea how much that's likely gonna get in the way, as you're bending over and picking stuff up, walking in and out of doorways, around and over obstacles, etc?

I have a machete with a 24" or 30" blade, hanging up out on the breezeway, that's right handy for clearing brush and such. It came with a canvas belt sheath... which was quickly discarded due to being of no use what so ever.

It didn't take me long to figure out that if I were going to carry that long-bladed thing around, the only real convenient way of doing it was in my hand, since it got tangled up in anything that came along, pretty easily. Including my own legs.

Anyway, y'all deal with the troublesome people and critters as you see fit, and with whatever tool does the job best for your particular situation.

J.

I was thinking more of rigging it to carry on the back with the handle at or just above the shoulder, sort of like people sometimes mount them to backpacks when hiking, etc. Still might get in the way, I don't know.

I think your shotshell idea is a good one for those whose location allows it. When I'm working in the garden, etc. I OC my Heritage with .22 WMR in it. I carry it on an old belt on top of my regular belt, not in the belt loops, in a homemade 'cowboy' style holster (for quick access - an angry copperhead isn't going to give me much time to draw, aim and fire and even with that setup I may not be fast enough) along with a fixed blade knife (in a homemade sheath) and the first round up is a shotshell followed by four 'regular' rounds. This would be my method of snake/varmint taming but we aren't inside city limits and although we have neighbors they aren't close enough for that to be a big deal. Critters are more of a concern in that situation than people, though - hence the single-action .22 instead of something bigger.