US Military & Tatoos

[railfancwb]

U.S. Marines boot recruits with Confederate tattoos

You won't believe what military thinks of historic Southern symbol

Posted: May 04, 2010

8:23 pm Eastern

By Chelsea Schilling

© 2010 WorldNetDaily

U.S. Marine hoists Confederate flag during World War II (photo: WWII in Color)

A widely regarded Southern symbol of pride and states' rights is standing in the way of would-be Marines in their quest to serve their country – a Confederate battle flag.

Straight out of high school, one 18-year-old Tennessee man was determined to serve his country as a Marine. His friend said he passed the pre-enlistment tests and physical exams and looked forward with excitement to the day he would ship out to boot camp.

But there would be no shouting drill instructors, no rigorous physical training and no action-packed stories for the aspiring Marine to share with his family.

Your favorate flag, whether it's the Stars and Stripes, the Gadsden, the Navy Jack or another, is at the WND Superstore's flag store!

Shortly before he was scheduled to leave Nashville for boot camp, the Marine Corps rejected him.

Now, the young man, who wishes to remain unnamed and declined to be interviewed, has chosen to return to school and is no longer an aspiring Marine.

"I think he just wants to let it go," said former Marine 1st Lt. Gene Andrews, a friend of the man and patriotic Southerner who served in Vietnam from 1968 through 1971. Andrews is a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a group of male descendents of Confederate soldiers. He counseled the young man when he decided to become a Marine.

"He had been talking to me, and he was all fired up about joining," he told WND. "He asked my opinion of it, and I just tried to tell him the truth, good points and bad points."

When the young recruit didn't go to boot camp, Andrews learned of his rejection based on his tattoo of the Confederate battle flag on his shoulder.

'Right now, it's a flat-out denial'

Current Marine Corps tattoo policy states, "Tattoos/brands that are sexist (express nudity), racist, eccentric or offensive in nature, express an association with conduct or substances prohibited by the Marine Corps drug policy and the Uniform Code of Military Justice, to include tattoos associated with illegal drugs, drug usage or paraphernalia, are prohibited. Tattoos/brands that depict vulgar or anti-American content, bring possible discredit to the Marine Corps, or associate the applicant/Marine with any extremist group or organization are prohibited."

WND contacted the Tennessee recruiting station, and a Marine sergeant explained, "The policy is if a tattoo can be construed by anyone as being gang-related or racially biased, then we can't accept them."

VIetnam war heroes hoist Confederate flag (photo: Tears of 'Nam)

While some extremist groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and Aryan Nations have embraced the Confederate flag in the past, the KKK has also adopted the U.S. flag and Christian crosses as symbols. However, many Southerners do not consider the flag an expression of racism or indicator of membership in extremist groups. They regard the Confederate flag as a symbol of state sovereignty and an honorable tribute to the men who fought and died to protect their homeland from invasion by the federalist North.

Asked whether an exception might be made for a Marine recruit who could provide a full explanation on the meaning of his tattoo as an expression of Southern pride, the recruiter explained, "At this point in time, no. If it can be construed by anyone as being racially biased, then right now it's a flat-out denial."

He acknowledged that the tattoo is quite popular in the South and that recruitment has been impacted by the ban on Confederate-flag tattoos, but he explained that the policy has been set by Headquarters Marine Corps.

Headquarters Marine Corps has not responded to WND's requests for clarification of the policy.

However, the U.S. Marine Corps "Guidebook for Tattoo Screening, Volume VII," a manual that outlines procedures for enlisted recruiting and officer procurement operations, explains, "Users of this guidebook should keep in mind, however, that few symbols ever just represent one idea or are used exclusively by one group. For example, the confederate flag is a symbol that is frequently used by white supremacists but which also has been used by people and groups that are not racist. To some it may signify pride in one's heritage, but to others it suggests slavery or white supremacy."

Opening statement in Marine Corps 'Guidebook for Tattoo Screening, Vol. VII'

'We've seen this before'

Other service members and recruits have dealt with similar issues concerning Confederate flag tattoos and military policy.

(Photo: The Florida Patriot)

The Southern Legal Resource Center, or SLRC, is a nonprofit legal foundation that has handled a number of legal cases involving the Confederate battle flag.

"We've seen this before," SLRC Chief Trial Counsel Kirk Lyons told WND. "This is not a unique situation. We have had instances where people have called who were hassled by Marine military police for having a small Confederate battle flag sticker on their vehicle. We had a Navy recruit who was turned away for having a Confederate battle flag tattoo on his forearm. There was one more incident a couple of years ago where another Marine recruit was refused enlistment because of a battle flag tattoo."

Lyons said the case of the Marine with a Confederate flag bumper sticker was resolved without legal action because the base commander decided to leave it alone. However, he said most enlistees and recruits don't pursue legal action or complaints, so the policy is never challenged.

"If a family is not willing to make an issue of it and push it, there's really nothing we can do because we have to have standing," he explained.

On the other hand, enlistees often cooperate so their careers don't suffer, Lyons said.

"They've got to keep their mouths shut because they're very career-oriented," he said. "You either get with the program, or you're going to destroy your career. The military is going to fight it tooth and nail. In a lot of cases like this, there's nobody to support these guys. They're on their own."

He added, "Somebody's got to stand up and say, 'I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore.' If people surrender their rights and just go on, there's not much we can do."

(Story continues below)

'This is an insult to us'

As for Andrews, he walked into the local Marine recruiting station in Madison, Tenn., that had turned the recruit away. He met a staff sergeant and informed him of his family's defense of Tennessee during the Civil War and his own service in Vietnam.

"I had thought about it, and the more I thought about it, the more I felt like this is just not right," he said. "I thought, if we just sit here, we're going to be slapped around and stepped on forever."

In a recent commentary posted on numerous blogs, Andrews recounted his experience:

"I informed the young sergeant that my family had defended the state of Tennessee (also his home state) against a sadistic invasion under that flag and to call our sacred flag of honor a 'hate symbol' was an insult to all southerners, but especially to those southerners who had risked or even given their lives in service to the Marine Corps. Southerners had served at Belleau Woods, at Tarawa and Iwo Jima, at Inchon and the Chosin Reservoir, and at Khe Sanh and Hue City, but now we are no longer wanted in the politically correct, don't-offend-any-minorities military?"

(Photo: The Florida Patriot)

The sergeant politely explained that the policy was handed down by headquarters.

Andrews continued, "I asked the sergeant if he had taken out the trash yet. He replied that he hadn't.

"I then said, 'Please add these to the day's garbage,' and returned my lieutenant's bars, my gold and silver Marine Corps emblem from my dress blues, my shooting badges and my Vietnam ribbons.

"I, like many of you, have always been told, 'Once a Marine, always a Marine,' and 'There are no ex-Marines, only former Marines,' but for me that is no longer true."

Andrews told WND he was born in the South, raised in the South and will always be a Southerner.

"This is an insult to us," he said. "We've laid our lives on the line in the Marine Corps since there was a Marine Corps. We fought in every campaign that the Marine Corps has been involved in. When I was in Vietnam, there were Confederate flags at every base, every fire-support base over there. Nobody said anything about it. There were state flags, Confederate flags, and it was no big deal."

Andrews said he is not angry. Rather, he is disappointed in the Marine Corps.

"I thought if it had been a bunch of political hacks or a school board or a local government or some municipality that was pretty spineless anyway, I really wouldn't have been surprised," he said. "That happens all the time. But I felt that the Marine Corps had a little more backbone and a little more character than that."

Asked what he would say to people who believe the Confederate flag represents racism and slavery, he responded, "I'd say they don't know much about history. Slavery existed under the United States flag much longer than it ever did under the Confederate flag."

He added, "It's pitiful to bring up historical topics to some of our young people today. They just stare at you like you're from outer space. If you're going to be led around by the nose in this country by the government, if you can't figure out what's true and what's not and what kind of propaganda they're giving you, that's a sad situation."

Cemetery in Lewisburg, Pa., with graves of Union soldiers marked with U.S. flag and grave of Confederate soldier with Confederate flag. (photo: Pennsylvania Department of Military and Veterans Affairs)

Confederate flag: Symbol of 'terrorism' or independence?

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, or NAACP, recently fought to ban the Confederate flag from the South Carolina Statehouse. NAACP leaders have said the Confederate flag "supports the evils of slavery" and "represents terrorism."

However, in his 1999 commentary, columnist Walter Williams argued, "It must be ignorance, an ignorance I once shared. The NAACP crowd sees the Confederate battle flag as a flag of slavery. If that's so, the United States flag is even more so. Slavery thrived under the United States flag from 1776 to 1865, while under the Confederate flag a mere four years."

(Re-enactment photo. Source: Politics and Culture)

He explained, "The birth of both flags had little or nothing to do with slavery. Both flags saw their birth in a violent and proud struggle for independence and self-governance."

Williams noted that the flag naturally symbolizes resentment for those individuals who see the War for Southern Independence solely or chiefly as a struggle for slavery.

"The idea that President Abraham Lincoln waged war against the South to abolish slavery is fiction created by the victors," he explained. "Here's an oft-repeated sentiment by President Lincoln: 'I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.' Slavery simply emerged as a moral front for northern aggression."

Williams explained that significant factors that led to the war included states' rights and tariffs Congress enacted to protect Northern manufacturing interests. He also cited professor Edward Smith, director of American studies at American University, who has calculated that between 60,000 and 93,000 blacks served the Confederacy.

"These black Confederate soldiers no more fought to preserve slavery than their successors fought in WWI and WWII to preserve Jim Crow and segregation," Williams wrote. "They fought because their homeland was attacked and fought in the hope that the future would be better and they'd be rewarded for their patriotism."

Williams then suggested the NAACP make an effort to memorialize and honor black Confederate soldiers.

Meanwhile, a May 9, 2000, survey by Gallup Poll News Service posed this question to Americans, "Do you, yourself, see the Confederate flag more as a symbol of Southern pride, or more as a symbol of racism?"

A full 59 percent of all respondents said they believe it is a symbol of Southern pride, while only 28 percent saw it as a symbol of racism.

"It's kind of a hot topic for us right now," the Tennessee Marine recruiter said of the Marine Corps policy on Confederate flag tattoos. "Personally, I don't have any problems with it. I have friends, both white and black, who don't have any problems with it. But there are also those out there who do see it as being racially biased."

U.S. Marines boot recruits with Confederate tattoos

[Guest redbarron06]

Very jacked, up when you consider that all all the services have verified gang members in the ranks that are fully inked up.

[G27]

Very jacked, up when you consider that all all the services have verified gang members in the ranks that are fully inked up.

My understanding is that this is part of a move to DQ anyone with tattoos that might be affiliated with gangs/hate groups.

[Guest redbarron06]

My understanding is that this is part of a move to DQ anyone with tattoos that might be affiliated with gangs/hate groups.

Yea that is what the policy might be in writing but the MS13, bloods, crips and other tags on walls in Iraq and Afg tell a different story.

[jeremy155rr]

Me = not racist, don't have a problem with the confederate flag, but i'm also white. That being said, I don't think it is right to keep the boy out, but in all fairness...they probably saved him quite a butt whoopin, just sayin. And +1 to red's statement, i'm sure the military isn't exactly in the 'know' %100 on gang affiliated tattoos. I mean really are they gonna turn away a guy with Irish heritage because he's got a shamrock on him somewhere (shamrocks are often associated with aryan bro. etc.)?

[Ebow1]

I tried to become a Marine, got through a couple weeks of basic. Guy in my platoon had a Confederate flag tattoo on his back. The reason the Confederate flag isn't usually allowed, I was told by my recruiters, is the fact that it supports a government that is in direct opposition to the U.S. government. Marine recruiters are the best at working around whatever problem may be keeping you from joining. Most people with a Confederate flag tattoo just have to sign something that says they're not anti-America or racist, and they may get a bit of flack from a D.I. during inspection but that's about it. I was questioned a bit about a tattoo on my arm that has the words "Your time will come" at the corners of an hourglass. It was never meant to be threatening, but it could be perceived that way, and as such I was asked about what kind of message I was trying to send out with a tattoo like that.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

When I worked shortly with the recruiting command of the the Tennessee National Guard in 2005 they were just beginning to take pics of all tattoos of possible new soldiers for review by HQ for "gang relation".

There was never a mention of a Confederate flag tat.

I have no idea if someone would have been turned away for such, but of course each service has its own standards.

The Army will take people that the Corps wont and the Guard will take folks that the Army wont, it has always been that way.

But if they keep this PC BS up it is going to get to the point that a tat of the "American Flag" may offend a naturalized citizen from another country who is also serving and thus become a reason to not let someone serve.

I wonder just how many the Corps will lose if they start discharging those who have them and are already serving?

[Guest Straight Shooter]

This is just ANOTHER example of how the left, terrorists and all the other anti-Americans have won. We lose our friggin common sense in order to appease, and not OFFEND anyone. In order to fly, you gotta be all but annally probed now to get on a plane, and I aint sure THAT aint gonna happen one day. Everywhere you go..cameras. Cant celebrate your heritage now because SOMEBODY may be offended. WELL HELL, IM OFFENDED, but that dont matter cause Im white. Im a former Marine myself, been out near 25 years now, and I wouldnt join up again if they drafted me. The U.S. military has become a huge social experiment...wait untill the brave men & women are FORCED to serve with homosexuals, youll see a MASS exodus, and damn if I blame them. Im NOT downing our FINE FINE men & women in uniform, mind yall, ONLY the top brass,from the so-called Commander in Chief, right down to the Congress. I have always prayed that the USMC, which I PROUDLY have forever on my left arm, would never fall for this horse crap. But, they have, and this aint all theyve been forced to do either.

[Guest bkelm18]

Guy in my boot camp class (Navy) had a giant swastika on his back. He was German. They still let him through.

[Daniel]

When I worked shortly with the recruiting command of the the Tennessee National Guard in 2005 they were just beginning to take pics of all tattoos of possible new soldiers for review by HQ for "gang relation".

There was never a mention of a Confederate flag tat.

I have no idea if someone would have been turned away for such, but of course each service has its own standards.

The Army will take people that the Corps wont and the Guard will take folks that the Army wont, it has always been that way.

But if they keep this PC BS up it is going to get to the point that a tat of the "American Flag" may offend a naturalized citizen from another country who is also serving and thus become a reason to not let someone serve.

I wonder just how many the Corps will lose if they start discharging those who have them and are already serving?

That works both ways.

[Daniel]

This is just ANOTHER example of how the left, terrorists and all the other anti-Americans have won. We lose our friggin common sense in order to appease, and not OFFEND anyone. In order to fly, you gotta be all but annally probed now to get on a plane, and I aint sure THAT aint gonna happen one day. Everywhere you go..cameras. Cant celebrate your heritage now because SOMEBODY may be offended. WELL HELL, IM OFFENDED, but that dont matter cause Im white. Im a former Marine myself, been out near 25 years now, and I wouldnt join up again if they drafted me. The U.S. military has become a huge social experiment...wait untill the brave men & women are FORCED to serve with homosexuals, youll see a MASS exodus, and damn if I blame them. Im NOT downing our FINE FINE men & women in uniform, mind yall, ONLY the top brass,from the so-called Commander in Chief, right down to the Congress. I have always prayed that the USMC, which I PROUDLY have forever on my left arm, would never fall for this horse crap. But, they have, and this aint all theyve been forced to do either.

We already serve with homosexuals. Even in the Marines.

[strickj]

This is just ANOTHER example of how the left, terrorists and all the other anti-Americans have won. We lose our friggin common sense in order to appease, and not OFFEND anyone. In order to fly, you gotta be all but annally probed now to get on a plane, and I aint sure THAT aint gonna happen one day. Everywhere you go..cameras. Cant celebrate your heritage now because SOMEBODY may be offended. WELL HELL, IM OFFENDED, but that dont matter cause Im white. Im a former Marine myself, been out near 25 years now, and I wouldnt join up again if they drafted me. The U.S. military has become a huge social experiment...wait untill the brave men & women are FORCED to serve with homosexuals, youll see a MASS exodus, and damn if I blame them. Im NOT downing our FINE FINE men & women in uniform, mind yall, ONLY the top brass,from the so-called Commander in Chief, right down to the Congress. I have always prayed that the USMC, which I PROUDLY have forever on my left arm, would never fall for this horse crap. But, they have, and this aint all theyve been forced to do either.

Apart from all the spelling errors....why is a gay guy not acceptable in doing a job of defending his country?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

A cross, Confederate flag, gangs? I don't particularly care for tatoos, but there seems

to be a disconnect with this. Looks like a portion of political correctness thrown in with an attempt to stop some alleged racism, or some other problem. They can do that.

Tatoos are something of a tradition in the military, but popularity of ink rises and falls.

My guess is the Marines don't want anything that's unpatriotic and their parameters

are theirs.

The gays in the military thing will never be settled by some. Every human being has bias, strickj. I don't see a problem with it, but enough do. If gays didn't have such a propensity to want to "come out", it might not be a problem. When they use "gay" as an excuse and attempt to make being gay some kind of protected class, others don't like it. Equal is one thing and being "more equal" is another. Gay activists really don't help. The "in your face" crowd is an ugly bunch.

I doubt just because one is gay isn't the problem. He or she shouldn't be advertising

it, in the first place.

[Guest Straight Shooter]

SORRY STICKJ for the "spelling errors". My post was written after a 12 hour shift this morning...dont see what "spelling errors" have to do with the message or subject.

Anyway, to answer YOUR question as to why a "gay guy is not acceptable in doing a job of defending his country", I guess I shoulda said OPENLY gay. I mean, now they have to hide the fact they are gay, or face discharge. I know there are already many homesexuals serving in the military, but they ARE NOT doing it openly, and should not. Now STICKJ....after re-reading my original post, where are ALL THOSE SPELLNG ERRORS you talked about?

[strickj]

The gays in the military thing will never be settled by some. Every human being has bias, strickj. I don't see a problem with it, but enough do. If gays didn't have such a propensity to want to "come out", it might not be a problem. When they use "gay" as an excuse and attempt to make being gay some kind of protected class, others don't like it. Equal is one thing and being "more equal" is another. Gay activists really don't help. The "in your face" crowd is an ugly bunch.

I doubt just because one is gay isn't the problem. He or she shouldn't be advertising

it, in the first place.

I don't like the "in your face" gays, either.

But I also don't like the in your face [whatever] aswell.

Also agree on the "let me in because I'm [whatever]".

My point was, what someone does in private should have no affect on his admittance to serve this country.

SORRY STICKJ for the "spelling errors". My post was written after a 12 hour shift this morning...dont see what "spelling errors" have to do with the message or subject.

Anyway, to answer YOUR question as to why a "gay guy is not acceptable in doing a job of defending his country", I guess I shoulda said OPENLY gay. I mean, now they have to hide the fact they are gay, or face discharge. I know there are already many homesexuals serving in the military, but they ARE NOT doing it openly, and should not. Now STICKJ....after re-reading my original post, where are ALL THOSE SPELLNG ERRORS you talked about?

This post and the previous post, when I quoted them, was lit up like a Christmas tree from the Firefox spell checker.

Has no bearing on the topic at hand....was just razzing you a bit

[Guest GimpyLeg]

My point was, what someone does in private should have no affect on his admittance to serve this country.

True, so why make it a public thing? 6.8 AR's post rings true with me also.

[Guest Straight Shooter]

OK on the razzing strickj! {But I still dont see the errors}

Now, you said as for what one does in private should not affect his service to country. Couple of points, then Im gonna hush.

One...in the military, ESPECIALLY in combat and infantry units, THERE IS NO PRIVACY, and Ill tell you from my experiance, when your ****tin, showerin, and shaving with 40 other dudes...thats no place for a homosexual. They may/may not have "rights", but I damn sure do to, and I dont want them around me in that intimate a setting.

Second... what one does in private SHOULD affect ones service to country! I dont want people who smoke dope/ do drugs "in private" to serve, for example.

These are all just my personal bias, but as I said before, when & if the U.S. military is legally FORCED to accept OPENLY gay recruits, youll see the beginning of the end of our military. It WILL lead to thousands leaving, and thousands and thousands more NOT joining. I damn sure wouldnt if I were 18 again. That just the reality of it.

So, the question is, DO PEOPLE WANT A STRONG MILITARY, OR DO YOU WANT TO RUN ANOTHER SOCIAL EXPERIMENT?

Edited May 6, 2010 by Straight Shooter

[Guest GimpyLeg]

It's the US Military! The Military's main job is to kill people and break things. It is not to pander to the sensitive or offended or as Straight Shooter has put, be a Social Experiment!

[Guest Straight Shooter]

I LOVE GIMPYLEG!

BUT NOT in a gay way!!!

[strickj]

It's the US Military! The Military's main job is to kill people and break things. It is not to pander to the sensitive or offended or as Straight Shooter has put, be a Social Experiment!

Exactly! It's not of their concern if you have a problem with someone wanting to take a peak at your naughty bits.

[Guest redbarron06]

We already serve with homosexuals. Even in the Marines.

That is true and most of them are by far sering honorably. They are following the DADT policy.

If a person is gay and wants to serve they can. It is right there in the law. If they want to come in to advance an agenda, then it is not welcome.

[Curiousgb]

That is true and most of them are by far sering honorably. They are following the DADT policy.

If a person is gay and wants to serve they can. It is right there in the law. If they want to come in to advance an agenda, then it is not welcome.

I don't think we should let openly white, or openly black, or openly female, or......

[Guest Straight Shooter]

Some of yall can huff & puff about gays not being allowed openly in the military all you want.

The DAY the military allows it to happen, will be the beginning of the end of our fine fighting force. Id get out in a New York minute, even if I had to get a CONFEDERATE FLAG TAT to do it!!

Im SICK of people trying to FORCE me to accept their lifestyle, AND religion, when it goes 100% against mine.

ITLL NEVER HAPPEN, I WONT ACCEPT IT, and cannot be made to. As far as gays curently serving...God Bless Em. As long as they arent radical, dont stir up trouble, and RESPECT others who do not believe/approve of homosexuality, let them serve as long as they want. The MINUTE they start that "Im gay and proud of it" CRAP while in uniform, THROW THEM OUT on their duffs.

Like I said before...you better decide NOW whether you want our country defended, or if you want your little social experiment to work, cause you aint gettin both.

[strickj]

Some of yall can huff & puff about gays not being allowed openly in the military all you want.

The DAY the military allows it to happen, will be the beginning of the end of our fine fighting force. Id get out in a New York minute, even if I had to get a CONFEDERATE FLAG TAT to do it!!

Im SICK of people trying to FORCE me to accept their lifestyle, AND religion, when it goes 100% against mine.

ITLL NEVER HAPPEN, I WONT ACCEPT IT, and cannot be made to. As far as gays curently serving...God Bless Em. As long as they arent radical, dont stir up trouble, and RESPECT others who do not believe/approve of homosexuality, let them serve as long as they want. The MINUTE they start that "Im gay and proud of it" CRAP while in uniform, THROW THEM OUT on their duffs.

Like I said before...you better decide NOW whether you want our country defended, or if you want your little social experiment to work, cause you aint gettin both.

Who is forcing gay onto you?

The Military has no business in matters of what one does in their bedroom, nor place of worship.

If you don't want to be 'forced' to be around them, then my advise is to stay home.

"They're everywhere, man."

YOu shop with them, you work with them, your governed by them, they fix your food, they're in the military.

[Daniel]

I will not be getting out when the homosexual members of our armed forces no longer have to hide who they are. I do not expect anything to really change tbh. The people who would throw it in your face that they are anything other than hetero would not make it. Homosexuals for the great majority do not try to proclaim their sexual preference any more than heteros.