Pulled over on bike today by THP

[TripleDigitRide]

Without seeing the helmet, it's hard to know for sure, but is there any chance the helmet in question is an obvious novelty helmet with a bogus DOT sticker?

I've witnessed riders buying those novelty helmets, then slap a fake DOT sticker on the back. I've even seen the novelty helmets with the fake sticker already attached. The store will often place a sign near these helmets, letting customers know they are not DOT approved. This fools almost no one, even LEO's.

Edited May 5, 2010 by TripleDigitRide

[MCSCOTT]

Not sure how this thread got on the subjects of cop bashing, drug dealers, and all the other arguments going on, but I'm with Mike in that I would like to see a pic of the helmet. Any LEO that has dealt with motorcycle riders before can usually tell which helmets are legal and which ones are not. Also keep in mind that lots of LEO's ride themselves, so that also helps them in the matter, so it's highly likely that they can tell when they see a helmet whether it's approved or not. Also, did you purchase this helmet new, and if so does it have the DOT tag on the inside like what has also been mentioned somewhere in this lost thread.

[setsdw]

Ok I did a little research and learned a few things. #1 DOT sticker means nothing. It can be put on by the manufacturer. That comes straight from the head NHTSA Bikers Rights Online! -

#2 If I got a ticket I could get it dismissed no problem. LEOs aren't trained to test helmets and no matter how much experience they have they can't eyeball a helmet and cite you. (that doesn't mean they won't) To determine a helmets compatibility with FMVSS No. 218 (49 CFR §571.218 the standard test) you have to do independent testing with 4 helmets, lots of really complicated data, etc. LEO's can't do that so no ticket.

My helmet(which is a half-helmet) had a sticker on it when I got it. I assumed it was good. In comparing it with other helmets it is def thinner but the DOT sticker was the exact same.

One of the problems is that the NHTSA can't/won't publish a list of approved helmets for us to pick from. Therefore without independently having my helmet and 3 others identical to it tested, the law cannot be enforced. I did have on a helmet so I did make a reasonable attempt to obey the law. I wouldn't even be arguing with this if I was going without one.

Also the comparison to seatbelts was just because they are both class C misdemeanors, not comparing their effectiveness. Seatbelts save lives, proven fact. Helmets.....not so sure. http://www.bikersrights.com/statistics/goldstein/goldstein.html If I'm going 65mph and get hit or wreck a little bucket on top of my head isn't going to help much. I'll survive wrecks by trying my best to avoid them and riding safe.

[setsdw]

BTW once again I'm not even slightly bashing this LEO. He was very professional and I have no complaint with him. My complaint is with the policy that allows him to pull me over with a "guestimate" that my helmet was non-compliant.

[MCSCOTT]

I kinda figured it would end up being a half helmet, as this kinda thing is pretty common with those. A LEO could answer it better, but as far as I know he can definately use it as an excuse to pull you over, and he can also cite you for it. Most usually don't, and maybe that is because of what you mentioned about the individual testing. However, to answer your question, I'm pretty sure he could have issued you a citation and/or had your bike towed. In court it might be dismissed, but most likely you would have to pay the court costs as well as costs of getting your bike out of impound. The other option would be getting a lawyer to fight the case and try to make the state pay for court and other costs, but who knows how that would turn out.

[jeremy155rr]

Ok I did a little research and learned a few things. #1 DOT sticker means nothing. It can be put on by the manufacturer. That comes straight from the head NHTSA Bikers Rights Online! -

#2 If I got a ticket I could get it dismissed no problem. LEOs aren't trained to test helmets and no matter how much experience they have they can't eyeball a helmet and cite you. (that doesn't mean they won't) To determine a helmets compatibility with FMVSS No. 218 (49 CFR §571.218 the standard test) you have to do independent testing with 4 helmets, lots of really complicated data, etc. LEO's can't do that so no ticket.

My helmet(which is a half-helmet) had a sticker on it when I got it. I assumed it was good. In comparing it with other helmets it is def thinner but the DOT sticker was the exact same.

One of the problems is that the NHTSA can't/won't publish a list of approved helmets for us to pick from. Therefore without independently having my helmet and 3 others identical to it tested, the law cannot be enforced. I did have on a helmet so I did make a reasonable attempt to obey the law. I wouldn't even be arguing with this if I was going without one.

Also the comparison to seatbelts was just because they are both class C misdemeanors, not comparing their effectiveness. Seatbelts save lives, proven fact. Helmets.....not so sure. http://www.bikersrights.com/statistics/goldstein/goldstein.html If I'm going 65mph and get hit or wreck a little bucket on top of my head isn't going to help much. I'll survive wrecks by trying my best to avoid them and riding safe.

Last time I wrecked a motorcycle I was probably going about 20mph. I swerved off the road to avoid hitting a jeep that had pulled out in front of me (it was CLOSE!) I was in a jam considering there was a barbed wire fence inches to my left and a pavement step-up inches to my right and the grass was about to end with a drain pipe under a driveway. The ground was angled towards the fence so I couldn't slam on my brakes.

I thought I was going slow enough to jump the curb and get back on the road... I thought wrong. Didn't think I hit the ground that hard, but apparently when I got up I was pretty beligerent (fight or flight signs of a concussion) because I talked to the ems personel that I knew some time later (I was an emt at the time) and they said I was an a**. Would it have killed me... no idea, but judging by my helmet that was basically split in half it would have hurt like hell at least. I agree a headfirst collision going 65mph you have no chance regardless. But watch a superbike race or something, if you don't go head first your still going to hit your head eventually, my vote is for the helmet. Save you from some nasty road rash at least.

Edited May 5, 2010 by jeremy155rr

[setsdw]

. But watch a superbike race or something, if you don't go head first your still going to hit your head eventually, my vote is for the helmet. Save you from some nasty road rash at least.

I hear what you are saying. I just know that riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous and any number of things could happen. I will always wear a helmet because I think it will help in an event like that. Other than that I accept that there are risks involved and I could get hurt. Problem is really more with the threat of a citation more than anything.

[MCSCOTT]

I hear what you are saying. I just know that riding a motorcycle is inherently dangerous and any number of things could happen. I will always wear a helmet because I think it will help in an event like that. Other than that I accept that there are risks involved and I could get hurt. Problem is really more with the threat of a citation more than anything.

I can tell you from knowing tons of bike riders, as well as several LEO's, that with a half helmet there is always the risk of citation, or at least getting pulled over. Best bet would be like someone else mentioned, if you want to keep the half helmet style, talk to some LEO's as to which one would be your best bet to keep you from getting pulled over for verification. They might not all know, but I'm sure there's a few that could point you in the right direction as to which one would be your best option.

[setsdw]

I can tell you from knowing tons of bike riders, as well as several LEO's, that with a half helmet there is always the risk of citation, or at least getting pulled over. Best bet would be like someone else mentioned, if you want to keep the half helmet style, talk to some LEO's as to which one would be your best bet to keep you from getting pulled over for verification. They might not all know, but I'm sure there's a few that could point you in the right direction as to which one would be your best option.

I'll def keep wearing the half helmet. IMO it allows me to be more aware of my surroundings and doesn't restrict my vision or hearing. I've worn full face and open face and and it's an easy decision for me. (except for those days when it's below 40 degrees and I'm dumb enough to go riding. Full face on those days

Most riders I know ride with a half helmet 10 to 1. Of the 20 or so riders of I've talked to since getting pulled over none have ever been asked their helmet let alone be pulled over solely for it. I even surveyed in Cookeville today at lunch at a busy intersection the number of riders who passed who wore half helmets. Every single cruiser I saw was wearing the same style. (also noticed that there was no way I could look at a helmet and see a DOT sticker or evaluate it's thickness even when these guys were only going 15mph less than 15 feet away)

As far as asking a LEO I did ask a buddy who's on the local PD. He's aware of the controversy and said he would never stop someone based on helmet alone If they are riding responsibly. He may cite them for it as secondary violation to speeding or reckless driving however. He said he has bigger fish to fry and that stopping good riders and creating unnecessary conflict helps no one.

I appreciate the advice as to asking LEOs which helmets would work but it defeats the purpose. The burden of proof can't be shifted to officers. One may tell me that it works but another may cite me for the same helmet. Until the NHTSA can publish a list of what they deem acceptable its all just opinion. It's not right to be fined based on opinion.

[Guest 1817ak47]

my uncle hit a deer in wi he used to be a big motorcylcer and collector there of. he said to his wife he flet the should get full facial helmets for safety reason instead of the ones that don't cover ther chin area. first ride wearing the new helmets he hit a deer, many broken ribs, pins in his wrist, was put into coma for several days to make his body more able to heal, his wife on the back was also thrown off. he said with what happened a half helmet likely wouldn't have kept him alive. in wi there is no law reguiring helmets, and many bad injuries occur as a result.

[strickj]

Ok I did a little research and learned a few things. #1 DOT sticker means nothing. It can be put on by the manufacturer. That comes straight from the head NHTSA Bikers Rights Online! -

#2 If I got a ticket I could get it dismissed no problem. LEOs aren't trained to test helmets and no matter how much experience they have they can't eyeball a helmet and cite you. (that doesn't mean they won't) To determine a helmets compatibility with FMVSS No. 218 (49 CFR §571.218 the standard test) you have to do independent testing with 4 helmets, lots of really complicated data, etc. LEO's can't do that so no ticket.

My helmet(which is a half-helmet) had a sticker on it when I got it. I assumed it was good. In comparing it with other helmets it is def thinner but the DOT sticker was the exact same.

One of the problems is that the NHTSA can't/won't publish a list of approved helmets for us to pick from. Therefore without independently having my helmet and 3 others identical to it tested, the law cannot be enforced. I did have on a helmet so I did make a reasonable attempt to obey the law. I wouldn't even be arguing with this if I was going without one.

Also the comparison to seatbelts was just because they are both class C misdemeanors, not comparing their effectiveness. Seatbelts save lives, proven fact. Helmets.....not so sure. http://www.bikersrights.com/statistics/goldstein/goldstein.html If I'm going 65mph and get hit or wreck a little bucket on top of my head isn't going to help much. I'll survive wrecks by trying my best to avoid them and riding safe.

So, you have a 'brain buster' helmet and wonder how the cop knew it was not a DOT approved?

Also, it doesn't really matter if a cop is specifically trained in something, it won't change the fact that you were in wrong in the judge's eyes.

Another thing,FWIW, I would be dead today if it wasn't for a DOT approved helmet...

[Guest redbarron06]

yeah I am sure you are going to tell a cop to lick your nads

Do that and then let us know how it ended up for you.

To the OP, can you post a pic of you helmet? Maybe from just looking it is obvious that it may not be up to snuff, dunno.

I have not had a proble m with it in the past. 2 metro, 1 Rutherford county sherrif, and a couple of State Troopers.

The point is that with him sitting still and me moving at highway speeds (45-70 MPH ). There is no way he would even be able to see if the helmet even had a sticker on it. Write me. I will see you in front of the judge and we will sit out by the road and make him pick out the stickers as bikes go by.

I am not bashing cops, have many that are friends but I am not afraid to throw the bull**** flag when need be.

[Mike.357]

BTW once again I'm not even slightly bashing this LEO. He was very professional and I have no complaint with him. My complaint is with the policy that allows him to pull me over with a "guestimate" that my helmet was non-compliant.

I guestimate that him pulling you over was more than a guestimate seeing as you had a non DOT approved helmet.

I also guestimated that it was a half shell style helmet.

[Mike.357]

I have not had a proble m with it in the past. 2 metro, 1 Rutherford county sherrif, and a couple of State Troopers.

.

so i am to believe you actually told 5 cops to lick your nads? right.

[Mike.357]

Another thing,FWIW, I would be dead today if it wasn't for a DOT approved helmet...

I dunno about dead but I would be a lot worse off than I am now if not for a DOT approved helmet. ( quad wreck)

[Guest bkelm18]

A full face helmet saved my life for sure. Got roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris. True story. I told him to lick my nads. He didn't like that too much.

[Guest clownsdd]

I don't care if you get paralysed and eat through a tube in your belly for the rest of your life because you were not being safe. I just don't want to pay for it.

+100

[Mike.357]

A full face helmet saved my life for sure. Got roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris. True story. I told him to lick my nads. He didn't like that too much.

dude thats funny, I needed a laugh. thanks

[Guest bkelm18]

dude thats funny, I needed a laugh. thanks

I aim to please.

[setsdw]

So, you have a 'brain buster' helmet and wonder how the cop knew it was not a DOT approved?

Also, it doesn't really matter if a cop is specifically trained in something, it won't change the fact that you were in wrong in the judge's eyes.

Another thing,FWIW, I would be dead today if it wasn't for a DOT approved helmet...

The officer has no way of knowing it was not an "approved" helmet (which is absurd since there is no list of "approved" helmets) My helmet is not cardboard and tape it's plastic covered and has an inch of padding. Looks like every other helmet out there until you side by side comparison that mine is a half inch thinner.

Also it can't be said that I was in the wrong even by the judge. Unless they want to do the full scientific test and present the results then they cannot say my helmet is substandard.

Edited May 5, 2010 by setsdw
Grammar flubs

[DaveTN]

The officer has no way of knowing it was not an "approved" helmet (which is absurd since there is no list of "approved" helmets) My helmet is not cardboard and tape it's plastic covered and has an inch of padding. Looks like every other helmet out there until you side by side comparison that mine is a half inch thinner.

Also it can't be said that I was in the wrong even by the judge. Unless they want to do the full scientific test and present the results then they cannot say my helmet is substandard.

It’s an equipment violation. The cop can stop you and inspect it. Just like loud pipes, lift kits, bald tires, etc.

The state offers proof that it is not DOT approved or they drop the ticket. I have no personal knowledge of how to determine if a helmet is DOT approved, but if it’s a violation of state law someone does.

[strickj]

The officer has no way of knowing it was not an "approved" helmet (which is absurd since there is no list of "approved" helmets) My helmet is not cardboard and tape it's plastic covered and has an inch of padding. Looks like every other helmet out there until you side by side comparison that mine is a half inch thinner.

I can tell the difference between a plastic shell and a real helmet from a distance....and I wear glasses.

Also it can't be said that I was in the wrong even by the judge. Unless they want to do the full scientific test and present the results then they cannot say my helmet is substandard.

Let us know what the judge tells you when you request some CSI scientific testing to be done on a helmet

[setsdw]

The state offers proof that it is not DOT approved or they drop the ticket. I have no personal knowledge of how to determine if a helmet is DOT approved, but if it’s a violation of state law someone does.

Exactly. Because NHTSA will not publish a list of approved helmets nor will they make the manufacturers test to their standards, no helmet can be in violation. The Tennessee law says:

Title 55. Motor and Other Vehicles. Chapter 9. Equipment -- Lighting Regulations. Part 3--Required Equipment on Motorcycles and Motor Driven Cycles. Section 55-9-302. Crash Helmet Required For Driver and Passenger. :

"(a) The driver of a motorcycle, motorized bicycle as defined in chapter 8 of this title, or motor-driven cycle and any passenger thereon shall be required to wear a crash helmet of a type approved by the commissioner of safety."

The commissioner of safety has never set standards or published a list either.

[setsdw]

I can tell the difference between a plastic shell and a real helmet from a distance....and I wear glasses.

Let us know what the judge tells you when you request some CSI scientific testing to be done on a helmet

There's a big difference between your opinion and the law though.

[strickj]

There's a big difference between your opinion and the law though.

What opinion?

Me being able to tell the difference between a plastic shell and a helmet is not an opinion.

As far as there not being any non approved helmets or whatever....all I know is you will not receive your class M with the plastic shells.