What is your objective in a self-defense shooting?

[molonlabetn]

There is indeed a difference between being prepared to kill if necessary, and wanting to kill, necessity or not.

[mikegideon]

Have we pulverized the horse yet? Anybody got a shop vac?

[Guest Letereat!]

I'm going to shoot for the center of the chest, but my intent is not to kill, even though my intent is to make kill shots until the threat stops. What I really want is world peace

It feel like some folks are conditioning themselves to say the right things if anything ever happens. The ONLY thing you should say is, "I need to speak to my lawyer".

LoL

The mason is right, circular argument with too broad a scope. I still say however that if you are gonna discharge your firearm at another person you had better be prepared for them to die, stop kidding yourself about the desired outcome of non fatally wounding.

[Oh Shoot]

...

If we were trained to KILL every time we fired at a threat we would be trained to shoot at the head or thorax and not at COM.

Perhaps I've misunderstood what COM means all this time.

thorax=The part of the human torso between the neck and the diaphragm."

That's not "Center of Mass"?

- OS

[mikegideon]

Perhaps I've misunderstood what COM means all this time.

thorax=The part of the human torso between the neck and the diaphragm."

That's not "Center of Mass"?

- OS

it is for me. right between the ta tas

[memphismason]

it is for me. right between the ta tas

me three

[oldogy]

Cause and effect comes to mind.

oldogy

[mikegideon]

Cause and effect comes to mind.

oldogy

What I been sayin'

[Guest Todd@CIS]

What is your objective in a self-defense shooting?

1. To not get shot.

2. Everything else.

[Guest Letereat!]

"shoot to stop or neutralize the threat" is another one of those Politically correct BS phrases.

[daddyo]

"shoot to stop or neutralize the threat" is another one of those Politically correct BS phrases.

Please explain.

[MphsTiger1981]

My mission is to make the other person stop whatever behavior has caused me to be in fear for my life. If, in the course of my attempt to make this person stop this behavior they happen to die, it is most unfortunate. I do not wish to die, therefore if it becomes either him or me, and if it is him then he did a poor job of choosing his victims.

I do not carry a gun with the specific goal of killing someone someday, but rather to ensure that if that day comes when someone else decides it is my day to die, I at least have a chance to defend myself and have some sort of input into the matter beyond simply begging for my life.

[Guest Phantom6]

A few observations here:

First, how you articulate your answer to the question in response to the police, DA and, in a court of law to a jury will make a big difference in the quality of your life.

Secondly, about 85% of folks shot with handguns in defensive shootings survive the event thanks to the ballistics capabilities of the tools at hand and modern medical techniques. The odds are that you will not be involved in a homicide investigation though you should certainly be mentally prepared for it.

Finally, my objective in a self defense shooting is to win. Not just survive but to keep fighting with all my skill and determination until I persevere or everything fades to black.

[Guest Ae-35]

END THE THREAT!!!!

[daddyo]

Finally, my objective in a self defense shooting is to win. Not just survive but to keep fighting with all my skill and determination until I persevere or everything fades to black.

Best answer in the entire thread.

[Guest pws_smokeyjones]

eliminate the threat, eliminate the threat, eliminate the threat.

[Guest Letereat!]

My explanation and interpretation of the phrase "politically correct".

This is when someone states their opinion, answers a question etc. in a manner that refuses to state the obvious and dances around...responding in a nebulous and vague manner with the only goal being to avoid "offending" anyone who may feel or think differently and or thus not stating the truth or likely outcome of an event or decision clearly. The whole idea is to say something that sounds "neutral" un-definitive and in no way can seem to inflict harm or hindrance to another person, that is the idea behind being "politically correct".

Soooo. I hate to keep flogging a horse that we have all pummeled heavily and heartily. To all those who are of the opinion and I say illusion that you are going to shoot to non fatally wound a person in a situation of self defense while under immediate and impending threat of deadly force being used against you or your family friends or countrymen. I say ploooooooie. Ask any instructor over 40 and they will say shoot to kill. That is what used to be taught dispersed disseminated and the widely accepted view and phrasing of any self defense shooting situation. Your only response to the friendly blue suits is “I feared for my and or my families life/lives”. The rest is up to the lawyers and the court. And by the way the universal home defense weapon recommended by police and in homes all over the world is the good ole short barrel shotgun with 00 buck. Odds of survival are for all practical purposes nil.

Final Answer

[daddyo]

To all those who are of the opinion and I say illusion that you are going to shoot to non fatally wound a person in a situation of self defense while under immediate and impending threat of deadly force being used against you or your family friends or countrymen. I say ploooooooie.

Not a single person here has said that their objective is to shoot to wound. You are reading something into the thread that simply is not there, sir.

And you are simply wrong in your assertion that "every" instructor teaches to shoot to kill. Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch is one who does not. He advocates stopping the threat, not "shooting to kill", as does every instructor who truly understands self-defense. Just as in martial arts, all you should be concerned with is disabling the attacker.

As has been said before, if the attacker dies as a result, then he dies.

Edited May 12, 2010 by DaddyO

[Guest Phantom6]

Ask any instructor over 40 and they will say shoot to kill. ...............

And by the way the universal home defense weapon recommended by police and in homes all over the world is the good ole short barrel shotgun with 00 buck. Odds of survival are for all practical purposes nil.

Final Answer

I'm over 40 and have been an instructor for most of my adult life and I would submit that any instructor that tells thier students to shoot to kill is doing their students a tremendous dis-service. It has nothing to do with political correctness but rather the ability to ethically and morally articulate one's intentions in a court of law. One way to look at it is to understand that just as you train you will fight, just as you speak outside of a court of law you will speak from the witness stand. Killing another human being is morally repugnant to me but I will not hesitate one instant to shoot to win a lethal encounter by stopping the threat my target presents to me. If he or she happens to die during the event well, it sucks to be them.

You are however, correct in your assessment of a shotgun for home defense. IMHO the shotgun with either 00 or 0 Buck is the absolute best CQB firearm when working inside any building. Used correctly one can work near magic with it. It has nothing to do with the lethality of the hits but rather the ability to terminate a threat more rapidly with less activity or shots fired. BTW, we have a class, "Defensive Shotgun for the Home", for that.

[Guest Letereat!]

My apologies for speaking on behalf of all firearms instructors. Thanks for your professional opinion, sincerely, no sarcasm intended. I would be interested in the "Shotgun for home defense" class as I have no proficiency with handguns to speak of, thus my choice of weapon. I checked out a couple of schools in other states for the same but they are prohibitively expensive.

[Guest Ae-35]

My mission is to make the other person stop whatever behavior has caused me to be in fear for my life. If, in the course of my attempt to make this person stop this behavior they happen to die, it is most unfortunate. I do not wish to die, therefore if it becomes either him or me, and if it is him then he did a poor job of choosing his victims.

I do not carry a gun with the specific goal of killing someone someday, but rather to ensure that if that day comes when someone else decides it is my day to die, I at least have a chance to defend myself and have some sort of input into the matter beyond simply begging for my life.

And we have a winner!!!! Best Answer!!!! One that will stand up in court!!! them " young whipper-snappers" get smarter everyday.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Ae-35

[E4 No More]

I find it humorous when people declare someone a "winner" when said someone says something that they agree with as if they are the absolute judge of the matter.

[daddyo]

I find it humorous when people declare someone a "winner" when said someone says something that they agree with as if they are the absolute judge of the matter.

Well, we all have a tendency to praise those who are able to put succinctly into words what we are thinking. I do the same thing.

[strickj]

I find it humorous when people declare someone a "winner" when said someone says something that they agree with as if they are the absolute judge of the matter.

WINNER!

[lowbud]

WINNER!